Diver

Hello everyone.
Like the rest of you I am anxiously awaiting for the rx8 to hit the streets.
It seems mazda has a sure winner on its hands:
true sports car and a four seater as well
rotary engine producing 250hp
9000 rpm red line
elegant shape
and an estimated price of 30000$
To me this sounds like the best value for money in its category (maybe even in any category).
Still there is something that puzzles me. Isn’t the rx8 very close in price to the miata? I believe the rx7 3rd generation was more expensive. Won’t the oncoming release of the rx8 with a price tag of 30k hurt the miata sales? I don’t want to sound pessimistic but mazda either has to raise the price of rx8 or lower the price of miata to avoid inside competition. What do you think?

One other thing, how did they manage to produce 250hp without a turbo? More horse power than the 3rd gen rx7 without the use of FI is an amazing achievement!

Pork Chop

$30000 sounds about right for what they're offering. If you look at some of the cars that might be in its segment, WRX, 350Z, IS300, you'll see that they're in the $24-30K range. It wouldn't make sense for Mazda to price it too far beyond that range.

I don't think you can draw comparisons to the Miata since it's a convertible and thus, has appeal to a certain audience. Convertibles are typically more expensive than their hardtop counterparts (in this case, there really isn't a true hardtop Miata, so you can't compare). I don't think your potential Miata buyer will be in the market for an RX-8 simply because it's not a convertible.

zoom44

diver checkout any of mazda's sites or the road and track article for info on the new renesis rotory engine. theres lots of details from those sources about how they achieve the hp. basically though they changed the intake and exhaust ports and moved them. at least i thinks thats right im going to have to read the articles again too. help me out here folks!:D

ZoomZoom

I don’t think so, two different cars and two different buyers.

Styjan

The 93 RX-7 started at 32K

JSMOTHRS

The most I would pay would be 34,000 fully loaded if it was to be around that price? But what will the insurance be for the rx-8 for people under 25 yrs of age and what was the insurance for the 3rd gen rx-7? I have an 99 eclipse GS with an automatic tranny and i recently did something to the engine and it smoking everythime I drive i drive it now, well anyway I was wanting to sell my eclipse for a fairly good used 93-95 rx-7 and I was just wondering how much the insurance be? If its to high I'm probibly just going to waith for the 8 or the 4th rx-7. Also looking at 3000gts,300zx,and supras

enjoy

I'm only 16 but im lucky that my parents pay my insurance but yeah my insurance is alot of money and yes i do plan to get an RX-8 and i would also like to know an estimated price. How old are you JS? just wondering.

Diver

Back then the miata was cheaper too, so the price gap between the two was big enough to set them apart in the market. If we take inflation into the equation it is obvious the new rx8 is a much better deal than the rx7. (the antagonism from other newcomers like the 350Z keeps prices low).
With the absence of the rx7 for so many years the miata played the role of the top sports car model for mazda. Now mazda followers and others can stretch their budget away from the miata into rx8’s territory. Some of them due to practical reasons, but most attracted by the much higher horsepower. Think that half the miata owners in Miataforum think their roadster is underpowered (I am not one of them).
Anyway this is a personal hypothesis of a potential marketing problem that mazda might be facing. Competition will restrict its price to 30k thus insuring the rx8 as an excellent purchase.

JSMOTHRS

To answer your question "enjoy" I am 20 yrs old and I'll 21 when the rx-8 comes out for sale.

cOz

Mazda has hinted the base model will start somewhere near 27k. Does this effect the Miata? I don't think so, because the two cars are so different. One is a two door ragtop and the other is a four door four passenger sedan/sports car. Just because the two models embody Mazda's performance image does not make them competition to each other. To say that it needs to be more than 30k is kinda crazy because at 27 Mazda has a hope of attracting everyone who is in the 23-25 range at 30 forget those folks. Technology and a very weak Yen have enabled Mazda to create an increadible performance bargan that just wasnt possible when the last RX7 was released.

zoom44

exactly "coz":D

Pork Chop

JSMOTHRS: I can only guess at the insurance estimates, but I would expect it to be pretty high for a 20-21 yr old. Insurance on a 93-95 RX-7 "might" be a little lower, since it is a 7-9 year old car. I'd still expect it to be quite high. Your best bet is to call your insurance agent and just ask him.

Pork Chop

Regarding the Miata/RX-8 pricing similarities, keep in mind, the MSRP of the 2 cars may be somewhat close, but in reality, people are paying closer to invoice on the Miata.

I still don't think the two will compete against each other. The Miata folk are pretty enthusiastic about their cars and if they're going to buy an RX-8, it would probably be as a 2nd car to complement their Miata, rather than replace it outright!

enjoy

thats kool JS, ill be 18 insurance will still be an issue considering when i turn 18 i have to provide for myself but rightn ow i work hard i have 2 jobs all of it goes into savings so i can buy this car bt i know i will still need alittle help so far i have saved up almost $25,000, ive been working minimum wage since i was in the 8th grade just to buy myself a car that i would be interested in and for sure its the RX-8. i could buy a 93-95 RX-7 right now but im willing to wait.

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

I'm kind of wondering where this car will fall into the Mazda line up. I'm guessing an Accord/Camry fighter. However, it does have pretty bold styling, a pretty good engine (over 210HP?), seating for 4 (or 5) and will probably handle pretty well for a sedan of its class. I wonder if this car will cut into RX-8's sales if offered much cheaper and those looking for something a little less extreme?

Jerome81

As far as Miata/RX-8, right now the Miata is trying to be all things to sports car buyers. At one end there is the somewhat stripped down model, though I believe now PW and PS, etc are standard. But at the other end, you start getting close to Z3 territory with the $26,XXX priced SE editions. Mazda realizes this and it sounds as if the next Miata, which is rumored to be on the RX-8 platform, will go back to the bare bones basics that made it so popular. The weight will drop and it will become simpler. Then, they may release another higher up roadster, possibly with rotary, to go against the Z3, S2K, Boxster, etc. The Miata can focus on its core, and the new roadster can go after its market.

Anyway, the RX-8 might actually allow the Miata to fall back to its roots a bit. But I'LL agree that really these cars fall into two different markets.

And to rxtreme, no the RX-8 is NOT an Accord/Camry fighter....not by a long shot. Way more power, less weight, RWD, fantastic handling. The new Mazda6 is going to be going against those cars, and by reading first drives of the pre-production models, the 6 is going to kill them all in terms of overall performance, quality materials and styling. I have read nothing but gushing praise for just about every aspect of the 6, and I truly think it will become the best midsize sedan out there. Check out http://www.edmunds.com to see their first drive impressions. There were also articles in the past month's car magazines that had great things to say as well.

enjoy

I believe the Mazda 6 will be made to compete for the Accord or Camry like you said but the RX-8 is morel ike a sports coupe class and the 6 is a midsized sedan and it aims into different markets than the RX-8. The mazda 6 does have a nicely made engine 210HP and probably built with the "soul of a sports car" but the people who want to RX-8 i believe dont just look at the outside appearances and accomodations, i believe we are buying it because of the RENESIS, that rotary engine makes it very unique

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

Jerome81, just to clarify: I said the Mazda 6 will probably compete with the Accord/Camry. I never would compare the RX-8 to the Accord/Camry. However, being that the Mazda 6 is or will be a car that may be able to outperform others in its class (performance/handling, styling, interior room, etc), the question that entered my mind was whether or not the Mazda 6 could take away from some of the RX-8 sales. Especially if the 6 was offered at a really decent price. I know it is sort of a stretch comparing the Mazda 6 with the RX-8, but Mazda is trying to break barriers with the RX-8 target market and given the level of refinement, styling, and performance that is offered in the Mazda 6. The seperation between the two may not be all that much for a non-enthusiast.

Some average Joe could walk into a Mazda dealership looking for a decent, versitile car with decent performance. Both the 6 and RX-8 offer seating for 4, decent trunk space, good styling, and pretty good performance: Forget the fact that the RX-8 is still considerably faster and would kill the 6 on a track. The average consumer probably wouldn't care THAT much(probably would care more about the torque the 6 offered interms of performance), then factor in the fact that the 6 is thousands cheaper and that same average consumer that may have been looking at the RX-8 is now sold on the 6.

Most of us on this board are not average consumers, were enthusiasts. We'll know way more about the RX-8 than most dealers. Shoot, most of you guys don't even care if the RX-8 had a back seat or not. So when you walk into a Mazda dealer, you're not shopping, you already know what you want. Remember the RX-8 is rumored to be mass produced, Mazda hopes to draw new types of buyers for this car---possibly buyers that wouldn't have normally considered something as sporty as the RX-8. All I'm saying is it could hurt the sale of the RX-8 by offering it side-by-side to the new 6.

Pork Chop

I haven't seen any mention of the pricing of the 6, but I'm guessing a higher-end V6 model will be $24-25K? There might be some overlap, but in the end, you're comparing a midsize FWD sedan with above-average performance to a RWD sports coupe. IMO, Mazda needs to emphasize the handling and performance capabilities of the RX-8. If they "dumb" it down and make it a soft, cushy cruiser, then you can see the overlap of the 2 cars.

red_base 95

I think there may be a small percentage of folks who will opt for the new 6, originally thinking of buying an RX-8. And that's exactly what Mazda wants. They would much rather have a consumer that is initially interested in the performance of the RX-8, but then decides to buy a 6 as a compromise instead of getting the Honda or Toyota. The creation of a new "halo" car is designed to increase traffic into the dealerships, and sell something a little more mainstream to the consumer who is waffling a bit. It's a solid strategy that has proven successful for other manufacturers.

The new 6 will provide much of the same driving characteristics of the RX-8, but with seating for 5 people and cheaper insurance. It will fit nicely just below the RX-8 in pricing.

rxtreme

iTrader: (1)

I totally agree with the whole halo car concept, except the RX-8 is supposed to be mass produced. Usually halo cars are produced in limited numbers or are very expensive, such as the Acura Integra type r or NSX. These cars are not for everybody, but buyers associate themselves with the halo cars in the models they buy. Using the Acura example again: Buyers associate themselves with the type r while driving their LS or GS-R models because it's basically the same car. The engine in the RL and TL is the same as the one in the NSX (although obviously, the NSX engine is tuned to a level way beyond that of the RL or TL). Acura even used this fact as an advertising scheme as an attempt to associate the NSX with other cars in its lineup.

Mazda is doing the same thing right now by associating the MX-5 Miata with the MPV---which, IMO, is alot less believable. Considering the MPV probably shares little, if any, similiarity to the Miata.

Diver

I sure hope NOT! for rx8’s shake! These two absolutely don’t compare at all. The one is a fwd sedan and the other a RWD sports car or at least a sports coupe.
The rx8 is rwd, with 50-50 distribution, sophisticated suspension, low centre of gravity. That is why in my opinion the inside competition is with the miata.
Yes they are completely different cars but for the true enthusiast who doesn’t care about types, categories, doors, they have a lot in common.

zoom44

yes the mazda6 is fwd and the rx8 is rwd. however, the sophisticated double wishbone front and rear "e" type five-point multi-link rear is the same. although one would assume the rx8's is tuned differently. i understand that both cars will also have mazdas new dynamic stability control. so both cars should exhibit very similar handling characteristics. the tuning of the suspension for each car is what should make the difference. and the rx8's lower center of gravity.

Jerome81

rxtreme,


Sorry, looking back I do see you were talking about the 6. My bad

As far as dynamic stability control, I read an article on Edmunds.com about the 6, and the mazda executive said that while DSC is available overseas that right now they are not planning to offer it in the united states, unless enough consumers clammor for it. Well count me in for the DSC supporters. While some of us may never want, or need it, it is one of those safety things that Mazda can use to show off the sophistication of the new 6. There are a lot of consumers out there who want every safety option available, and DSC is a darn good one that US customers should be able to get.

Also, they said navigation would not be an option in the US either While I would just rather save my $2K and use a map, the 6 is supposed to be replacing the Millenia and the 626, and navigation would be a nice stand alone option for those looking to load their 6 to the teeth. Many other car companies offer it as a stand alone $1995 option, and if they've already got it in some of the cars, why not make it available in the US as well?

DSC and navigation are a couple of little things that would set the 6 apart from the Accord/Altima/Camry crowd, in addition to the styling, quality, and handling, making the car even more appealing. Seems like a no-brainer to me.

zoom44

yes! on the DSC standard and the navigation as an option.