Tron

I think the STI cheated with the 2.5L engine. Someone correct me if im wrong, but doesnt the WRC prohibit engines bigger than 2.5L? If so, Subaru has made a mad choice to steal the market away from Mitsu.

nostatic

(1) Subaru doesn't rally cars in the USA (where the 2.5L exists)

(2) Subaru can manufacture any car it wishes. It's in business to sell cars.

(3) The WRX STi is not a rally car. It's loosely based on one. Very loosely. Same goes for the Evolution (hell, it's not even participatingin WRC).


:D

Ali

In Europe and Japan the STi is still a 2.0.

The 2.5 was used to allow the 300bhp yet meet emissions regs

Maximus

rotorypower: pls read this if you haven't already:

http://rx8forum.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=buger

fishsauce

Participating: Yes.
In the running for the Championship: No.

http://www.wrc.com/en_GB/News/2003/0...watchfinal.htm

kry

go pick up the latest C&D........ RX8 Ownz!

RX-Nut

which C&D is this.. not the Stang/G35/RX-8 comparo is it?

Hercules

Latest C&D is comparison of the S4/M3/C32 and RS6/M5/et al...

RX-Nut

Is there something about the 8 in that issue?

ProtoConVert

Sorry, but I think you are incredibly wrong Trac. For one thing, take the Sti's turbos off, and what you have is econo-4-banger. Take the RX-8 turbos off (rhetorically) and what you get is a 4 seat S2000 with better numbers. Numbers, being what you are looking for. Put turbos on an RX-8, what do you get?

(dramatic pause). You get a next generation RX-7. (for purposes of comparison)

I'm not sure about this next point, but I think even the last generation RX-7's could stick it to a new Sti, at least in the numbers. In any case it certainly argues against your conception of RX-8 not being more for "pure performance junkies" since a turbo RX-8 would quite simply blow an sTi out of the water in numbers.

Also, I recommend you not take whats marketed to you as any sort of limitation on aspirations. What I mean refers to your use of the phrase "geared to". For one thing, you would be callously discarding the entire point of The Mod. For another thing, you are wrong, albeit understandably. If you think performance is a function solely of how LARGE certain numbers are, then you are entirely missing the point. It's like saying that Mercedes SL55 or even a BMW is more for performance than a ~180hp/127lbft Lotus car. Sure this example is loaded and biased but the point is, a newer Lotus at the track will spank the former cars if they are stock. I'm saying that RX-8 is a lot closer to pure performance... ~200lbs lighter, 3k more rpms, lower center of gravity, smaller polar moment of inertia relative to weight, blah blah blah. It's got better characteristics for all the stuff that isn't easily changed.

Sure, if you argue that modding an RX-8 past sTi numbers will push up costs until it is way more expensive, but then why are you using an sTi? the Evo pushes basically 1 lateral G and has equal other numbers to an sTi. Then again, if the sTi comes to the states at around 35k, and you put 5k worth of a turbo on an RX-8, maybe this discussion would be moot. It is certainly make

nostatic

No offense, dude, but this statement is just so far off the mark. You aren't really going to make me type out a list of significant enhancements of the STi over the plain vanilla WRX, are you? It's a LOT more than just a turbo...

Ali

Yup, it's an extra diff that makes it understeer even more, and some dampers that give it a far worse on-road ride than a standard WRX, which also has a turbo BTW

It's generally agreed in the UK press that the stock WRX is far better in a real world situation. The STi is a track car, yet in that situation its terminal ability to understeer and lack of balance spoil the party! An Evo 8 is far superior (and equally ill suited to road use).

Skyline Maniac

Styling:
RX8 > Evo8 > Sti

Performance:
Evo8 (JDM) > Sti > Evo (USA) > RX8

Convinience:
Evo8 > Sti > RX8

Overall Value:
Sti > Evo8 > RX8

Luxury:
Not exactly luxury cars here.
RX8 > Sti > Evo8

All weather driving:
Sti~Evo8 > RX8

So there you have it. Get the WRC cars for raw performance, get the RX8 for styling and cruising. If you want a raw sport car with 4 doors, you really can't top the Sti or Evo8. RX8 is a hybrid, not really meant to be an all out performer against the WRC cars,

rotarypower

hey guys
thanks for all the posts. i'm just having trouble over deciding on which. sorry if i OFFENDED anyone here. that's just how i saw the two cars. (you guys are way too sensitive at times:D ) that post on the rx-8 engine thing with buger and wakeech was way too technical for me but i'm sure it proved that iit was a really great engine . yes the rx-8 is VERY appealing to me right now. wish i could have both the sti and rx8. :p thanks again for all your opinions and to those who replied thoughtfully and considerately.
- me

Hercules

Keep in mind that some people (like me) prefer RWD over AWD any day of the week.

True fun comes from RWD anyway :D *waits for flames*

BlueAdept

Hmmm... if you've had a bad experience with an FF car, why would you be more frightened of FR which by it's very nature has argueably better weight distribution and IMHO somwhat less unpleasant characteristics in poor conditions than an FF.... Now I'll clarify that by saying that you should expect to have to drive carefully in either... and an FF is most likley to exhibit understeer which in inexperienced hands MAY be safer than oversteer, but it's just so unpleasant...

Obviously 4x4 is gonna be potentially safer, but there's still limits... I don't think any configuration is inherantly dangerous if driven correctly.... You didn't say where you lived, do you get much REALLY poor weather?

BlueAdept

You won't get flames from me!!! IMHO 4wd takes the FUN out of a sportscar (As does FWD, actually I think that FWD and Sportscar are mutually exclucive)...

I'll save the 4wd for dirt tracks and natural disasters thanks.

BlueAdept

Errrr,

Value is a function of application... If you are stuck in a desert, then is 1 gold ingot better value than gallon of water?

I would say that it could equally be argued that the RX8 is better "value" because it is a better all rounder... Quieter, more comfortable, with better road manners etc etc... both the Evo and the Sti might beat it on a drag strip, but which one would you take on a long trip?

BlueAdept

Well, it IS a great engine... but again, it depends what you like... I can't say if you'll like it or not because I don't know what cars you've driven and which you liked... if you're into VTEC Honda's and love the really willing, high revving nature of that then you'll LOVE the Rotary... but if you're a V8 guy then you may never understand the beauty of 9000RPM... and you'll hate the Rotary engine...

I can only suggest that you get a test drive as soon as they are in showrooms....

rotarypower

yup... pretty much. i've only been driving a '97 dodge grand caravan, so i may get too excited by the performance of these two beasts (sti and rx8). but yeah it'll all just boil down to the test drives. (hope i make the right decision, but then again both cars are winners) thanks again guys

damn the interior/exterior of the rx8 makes me jizz:D

BlueAdept

Quote from another thread:-

>>>> A. My girlfriend upon seeing a photo of the RX-8 said: 'Can you have sex with a car?'

moogle

rx-8.

sti is a very cool car being that it almost hit the supercar territory "13.1 on a quarter mile."

but i still choose the rx-8 because its unique. Its a class all on its own.

RobDickinson

"All weather driving:
Sti~Evo8 > RX8"

And the myth continues...

2WD (rear or front) are often safer in snow/icy conditions. yes you get more traction with 4WD but that only gets you going.

The Extra mass (and this has all been tested and verified by magazines with Volvo, audi and mercede's cars) of the 4wd systems actualy increases stopping distanced (by a decent amount).

Most times, i'd rather struggle to start than struggle to stop.

gord boyd

I agree with Rob. And the beauty of RENESIS is the low
torque helps with the struggle to start. This is why 2nd gear recommended in 'winter driving tips'.

Ali

Regarding all weather ability-when asking a close friend how his Scooby coped in the snow:

"F***ing awful"

How about the rain Andrew:

"Slightly less awful"

And dry tarmac:

"It's Ok I suppose"

Hardly the stuff of legends...

AWD is only superior in a small number of situations. The Scoob has the same size and similar profile rubber to the RX-8. Grip is entirely defined by the tyres and suspension and has absolutely nothing to do with drive, unless you try and alter the throttle at the limit. In that situation, a Scoob has a natural tendency to understeer. In fact, having tried the classic shape, the bugeye and the new Scoob in WRX and STi form, I'd say that all of them understeer more at the limit (especially on track) than my FF Civic Type R. The grip levels of the STi were certainly no higher (despite larger rubber) and the front LSD was a complete liability, making the car difficult to place accurately unless you payed a great deal of attention to your throttle input.

As to the rally specials credibility as sports cars? They're not. Not in the classic sense. They are stupidly fast sports saloons but blighted by the same problem that my CTR has. The driving position. Believe me, if you haven't tried one, that an MX-5 or Elise is far more "sporting" than a WRC special. Remember that they are based on mundane econo-boxes and the driving position is defined by the needs of the general public. An RX-8 should certainly feel more sporting than either, performance advantages or not.

Another myth is that AWD helps improve the handling. It rarely does and the constantly shifting drive in the Scoob and Evo can make the cars less predictable than a good FF set-up, never mind a well balanced RWD. That's why Nissan set the Skyline up to beahve like a FF into a corner and RWD on the exit. The AWD in the rally specials are purely geared to grip with handling delicacy as a very distant afterthought.

I may be slightly RX biased, though I've not fully made my mind up, but I've always been disappointed by rally specials (bar the Lancia Delta Integrale).