dirtylude

i'm not defensive, i've just read a lot of false information on this thread.

wakeech

well, other than that i now know the rods are forged and the pistons are aluminum, i still don't know much about the block. it's big, which is a good place to start when you need to make reliable power, but does it have vertical oil squirters under the pistons as the old GSR block did?? there are so many little things such as this which can't be gleaned from a sales brochure which really make the big difference in the engine. it's still a question in my mind running a small (from the pictures: what's the spec on that sucker?? yes, i mean all specs... or a name would do) turbo.

that doesn't mean a thing. the stock block is iron, but that doesn't mean they haven't modified the plank for more o-rings or a different gasket, dowled that sucker, what spec studs they're using, etc etc etc... oil pump and water pump, well, considering the motor only runs for minutes at a time, those aren't essentially vital, but yes, work well as marketing tools.


alright, i can forgive you for being innocently naiive on this point, but the names on your shock absorbers and springs does not equal a good suspension. i will never EVER get over how companies can call a set of shocks and struts a "suspension".

McStrut setups, with live axle, or god forbid, and independant rear suspension will never hold a candle to a forged aluminum twin A-arm front setup, with a 6 point multilink in the back. never. i don't care how stiff you make it, or what brand names you put in your wheel wells, there are right and wrong ways to do things.

in any case, how about people in Miatas beating Vipers, Lambos, Corvettes and all manner of "faster" cars???
the man is quick, not the machine. "Some go quicker than others".


s'yeah, it's that simple, isn't it. "directs air over the turbo/motor/whatever"... hahaha... the guys at the autoweek forum were naiive enough to believe that one too. it's a banal marketing statement to justify riciness right from the factory. form over function, always.


i don't know what he was smoking, but i do know that some of those Scubies can have some boost creep problems, and have a nasty habit of farting the #3 cyclinder out the exhaust pipe if something does go awry. not a knock on WRX's at all, i'm just saying that they're not perfect either.

i'm anxious to see how this plays out. which T4 does he have?? there are huge differences between the models in that line.

it's coming w/ a LSD made by Quailfe standard in '04

the problem is that alot of "sport compacts" are less sport than they think. why am i not an enthusiast for disliking a niche of cars which gives my generation of car lovers a bad name??

dirtylude

um, i'd have to disagree. the rotary has not had the best reliability in the past....and thats a fact, even RX7 owners will tell you its a bitch to take care of, unless you like changing your rear main seal every 60K


thats true, and i'll agree, Dodge hasn't had the best reliability in the past either, but it has gotten better in the past few years.

wakeech

the Focus RS is an entirely different beast from this pocket rocket... not to mention there's a little thing called the Golf R32 hidden away from us as well.

i'll echo that sentiment, wankel power.

eccles

Then we'll have to agree to disagree. As you can see from my .sig, I've had my share of rotaries in the past, and on the whole, they've been extremely reliable - the only failures I've sustained were two race motors (one of which lost oil pressure due to a ruptured hose and lunched the rotor bearings before I could shut it down) and a road-going 12A with over 200,000km on the clock.

dirtylude

yes it does.

this is all true. from what i understand, the only thing modified....besides the rods and pistons, is the head gasket. all other gaskets are stock, the bearings remain stock. i'm sure a little bit has been modified, but for a street application, the block in totally stock form (maybe w/ forged pistons), can handle close to 500hp.


so are you still trying to say it handles like a dog?? go out and drive one on the track. it prolly wont handle as good as a RX8, but for $20K, it will hold it's own agains others in it's price bracket.

whats your point? is it still a "non-functioning" hood scoop? no...go pop the hood on one and see for your self. the scoop is functional.

i've heard of this also, but that wasn't my point in my post. i was simply stating that the WRX is not "tapped out" from the factory, they have plenty of potential.




to be honest w/ you i dont know.

Keshav

Ever wonder how the German car manufacturers can design a small car that weighs as much as a mid-size? I wonder if they even make the cup-holders out of sound-deadening insulation materials.

Factoid: a MINI Cooper S weights in excess of 1000 lbs more than my first car, a 1979 Honda Civic. 2676 vs 1610

What were we talking about again? :D

myfootsmells

Hey guys, I'm a fellow SRT4 owner. Just wanted to say that the RX8 is a nice car and so is the SRT4.

On another note, I been trying to see if I could spot any RX8 in the Bay area but have yet to see any

I have a dyno day setup for Aug 24th, any of you guys interested?
Check this link for more information

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8322

-myfootsmells

Ike

Wow... I can't believe I'm going to defend an SRT-4, and Neons in general for that matter.


1.) The SRT-4 is no slouch in the handling department, and I've seen plenty of regular and ACR Neons beat RX-7s around a track, and their chasis is quite proven in SCCA events. Including a win in it's class at one lap last year (with a ringer driver)

2.) The dodge engine is certainly more proven than your Renesis, and you guys had better hope it's better than the previous generation Wankel.

3.) The WRX and the SRT-4 are far from maxed out, about $1000 in mods in a WRX and you're getting close to 300hp at the crank, and that's without upping the boost or NoS, this is with very safe mods. The SRT-4 doesn't get as big a gains due to it's better factory cat configuration, but there is plenty left to get out of that engine.

4.) RX-8 will get the nod in the aesthetics, but that's what Mazda usually puts out, pretty cars that handle really well and disappoint many people for being underpowered. The RX line usually has great power, but I'm starting to have my doubts about the RX-8, give it a couple years and it's not going to be impressive in the least engine wise.

5.) The RX-8 is not so earthshattering in the handling department from what I've heard, it's a good handler, but there
are plenty of cars out there that already handle better, and have the potentiel to handle better.

6.) Boost creep is pretty rare on the WRX and is ually caused by people using improper boost control devices. The cylinder problem is rather rare but has been know to happen.

7.) Wakeech, are you implying the R32 has a rotary? It's a 3.2 L 6...

8.) If a hood scoop is helping with cooling it's funtional... I've seen people post about how the WRX hood scoop isn't funtional which is just about the silliest thing I've ever heard about our cars.

There's plenty more but I'll stop here...


I've said my fair share of bads things about the SRT-4 and don't like much of the crowd that seems to buy them, but hell I think a lot of you guys are acting worse than I've ever seen some of the people act on the SRT-4 forums. At least on the SRT-4 forums they seem to know what the hell they are talking about before they open their mouths.


Ike

myfootsmells

Damn, arent we all car enthusiasts here. I mean if some honda wants to put an underbody kit, or some guy buys an srt4, or someone buys an rx8 who cares. it's their car, their money, and their time.

just because there are a few rotten apples in the barrel doesnt mean that they all are.

Ike

I'd like to add that the fact that there is even an argument here is a great testament to the SRT-4. We're talking about a 10k difference here, and on the streets if both cars are properly driven the SRT-4 will hand the RX-8 it's ***. When you line up next to an SRT-4 I dount he nor you will be to concerned about how great your interior is...

I think the RX-8 is a beatiful car, but I'd rather have great sex with a mediocre looking girl than mediocre sex with a great looking girl. Take from that what you will.

I can't believe I just defended a freaking neon :p

Viva la WRX!

Ike

I don't think we're all car enthusiasts here, I think there's a lot of RX and rotary fanbois that don't know what the hell they speak of.

ChurchAutoTest

Just strictly on a technical basis, the 2.4 in the SRT-4 looks like a well designed engine. The block is a 2-piece bed plate design which means the bottom halves of the main bearings are incorporated in a separate piece of the block (I'm talking gibberish for the rotary heads, right? ). This provides superior bottom end strength and stability. Honda uses the same approach in the K-series (RSX, Accord, etc.) and the F-series (S2000) engines.

The block is also quite stout, although I believe the race team is actually using block filler to stabilize it at the race power levels.

The cylinder head is a decent design, although the exhaust ports are too small for anything but a quick spooling street car (ala 2nd gen DSM 4G63 heads). That's easy enough to change.

This is not to say that the Dodge 2.4 is a great motor, or will last a long time, or won't have problems. But on paper its a pretty solid effort and a great basis for a turbo motor. It would take a lot of work to make it into a high power NA engine (at least at 2.4 liters) and its a bit heavy, but these are not much of a detriment in turbo motors.

As for the SRT4, well, its cheap and kinda ugly, but you have to respect it for the performance/$$ equation it provides, even if it is FWD

SC

dirtylude

me either dude...lol

zoom44

i don't know, you'd have to show the pile in question and it must be from a pretty special dog:D

evryone cut it out they are all great examples of what can be done in the automotive world with a little imagination. it's nice to see cars out there for the performance minded in every economic level. peace!

MonkeySRT4

Hi, all... First post here.

I'd like to start off by saying that the SRT-4 owner in the first post sounds like nothing short of a ricer-dork and deserves to have his hat handed to him by the first RX-8 he meets.

Personally, I can't wait to see an RX-8 at the dealership... it looks like a gorgeous machine and being an auto enthusiast, I never miss the chance to appreciate innovations in our quest to go fast. I may be a bit brand-prejudiced in my purchases, but make no mistake, if a car can pull G's and get below 15 seconds in the quarter-mile, you can bet I wanna go for a ride on that roller coaster.

Agreed that the SRT-4 is probably no match for the RX-8.

As for the other claims you made, wakeech, I have to point out a couple of discrepancies in your post.

The SRT is a hopped up neon, for sure. The motor was completely designed by the PVO (Performance Vehicle Operations) team at Chrysler, but they do in fact use a Mitsubishi turbo unit.

Regarding the weight distribution/suspension set up: on the 200ft. skid pad (for testing handling) it rated at 0.85g and in the 700ft. slalom, ran at 69mph (magazine racing, I know, but I just thought I'd provide some numbers to back up the car) My point here is that the car isn't an Enzo Ferarri on the track, by any means, but it ain't exactly an AstroVan, either.

(the same mag. rated the RX-8 at .90g/70.6mph on the aforementioned tests, btw)

As for the claim of a non-functional hood scoop, it does in fact function, but not to the degree that most people anticipate- it acts as an inlet for cooling off the turbo/exhaust manifold area which, as you probably know, can get pretty damn toasty during a hard run. It doesn't serve as a forced induction scoop, although some have modded it to do so with fairly little effort.

The SRT also did pretty a good job proving itself in the Car & Driver One Lap of America race this Summer. Look on the C&D website and check it out. Kinda neat.

I also saw a lot of "It's just a neon" posts in this thread... but that's what really attracted me to the car in the first place. It's the total underdog... and it's fun to watch the expressions on people's faces when the thing takes off... noone expects it! It's really a blast to drive. If you have the opportunity, take a ride in one... MOST of us SRT owners are pretty friendly and wouldn't mind taking you for a spin.

So, to wrap things up:
* previously mentioned SRT-4 owner is a dolt
* not all SRT-4 owners are dolts
* SRT-4's aren't horrible cars, just no match for an RX-8



Hope this clears things up.

REX8

So whats your freind reaction after he read this? :D

http://cnn.heavyplasma.com/www/cnn/2...8987index.html

Wing

OH!!! That's BAD! Dodge is DOOMED! DOOMED I tells ya hehehe

Ike

I don't like using that as to strong an example since the driver was a national champion neon driver, and his co-pilot was a chrysler engineer. Almost all the rest of the guys were weekend warriors, dodge backed that car and put a total ringer driver in it. Still shows that in the right hands the neon does handle rather well.

Ike

brothervoodoo

Looks like a bad mock-up of a practical joke....

dirtylude

dude...heavyplasma is a joke site where you can put in whatever news article you want for ***** and giggles and have it look like official CNN ****.

Ike

You'd be surprised, many of those guys have a lot more money than racing experience. The WRX guys for the most part were total noobs but they did it because they had always wanted to and saved their pennies, and the stories they were posting from the road on the WRX sites were priceless. I know 2 weekend warriors that own M3s, it's not a far cry from a Z06.

The guy in the Z07 was an accomplshed driver and had won 1 lap in a Viper, he also averaged about 150mph from one event to the next according to a lot of the other participants that he was blowing by on the highways.


Ike

Quick_lude

Can someone please ban the foul mouth kids that cannot seem to carry an argument without resorting to slinging insults at people? This thread should be locked by now, it has degenerated into a pile of crap.

P00Man

i agree...

the last 2 or 3 pages are nothing but a cry fest, they dont contain one bit of useful information, just a bunch of "disses"

brothervoodoo

All,
I have a better idea, why don't you all grow up and get over yourselves. You pick a fight and what do you expect is gonna happen, now this sh*t will drag on for god knows how long... I wish there was a way to ignore an entire thread so it won't even show up... :D