RX-8 vs. Impreza WRX vs. Lancer Evo VII
08-19-2002, 05:05 AM
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RX-8 vs. WRX STi vs. Lancer Evo VII
I plan on getting a car next summer [2003]. I have narrowed it down to 3 choices. The RX-8, Impreza WRX STi, and Lancer Evo VII. I'm into cars, but quite far from being able to determine which is the best pick. So, someone please help me out. I want a good performance and handling car, not to mention one that doesn't look half bad with complete stock parts. Oh, I'm also shooting for something around $25 - $30k. I'm not swimming in money either. Hell I'm not even of legal age ! Anyways, give me some feedback. Thanks !
Last edited by bebenikkz; 08-19-2002 at 05:36 AM.
08-19-2002, 12:34 PM
#2
It's been posted before, but it depends on what you're trying to do.
If you want to have "FUN", being 180s, 360s, donuts, drifting, etc... you need RWD, which is only the RX-8.
If you want grip, grip, grip, then you go between the Evo and the STi. Of those two, I'd get the STi, as the interior is nicer, and it handles better.
Both the Evo and the STi are faster than the RX-8, but you will have more fun in the RX-8, because it's RWD instead of AWD.
That decision is yours.
If you want to have "FUN", being 180s, 360s, donuts, drifting, etc... you need RWD, which is only the RX-8.
If you want grip, grip, grip, then you go between the Evo and the STi. Of those two, I'd get the STi, as the interior is nicer, and it handles better.
Both the Evo and the STi are faster than the RX-8, but you will have more fun in the RX-8, because it's RWD instead of AWD.
That decision is yours.
08-19-2002, 03:34 PM
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Originally posted by Hercules
It's been posted before, but it depends on what you're trying to do.
If you want to have "FUN", being 180s, 360s, donuts, drifting, etc... you need RWD, which is only the RX-8.
If you want grip, grip, grip, then you go between the Evo and the STi. Of those two, I'd get the STi, as the interior is nicer, and it handles better.
Both the Evo and the STi are faster than the RX-8, but you will have more fun in the RX-8, because it's RWD instead of AWD.
That decision is yours.
It's been posted before, but it depends on what you're trying to do.
If you want to have "FUN", being 180s, 360s, donuts, drifting, etc... you need RWD, which is only the RX-8.
If you want grip, grip, grip, then you go between the Evo and the STi. Of those two, I'd get the STi, as the interior is nicer, and it handles better.
Both the Evo and the STi are faster than the RX-8, but you will have more fun in the RX-8, because it's RWD instead of AWD.
That decision is yours.
Drifting and such in RWD is easy, stomp on the gas, and you loose the tail. In AWD, it actually takes some driving skill, and knowledge of weight transfer to do these things, but they are still very much possible.
Either way, wait until they come out before you decide. That's the only way. You need to see the cars in person.
Last edited by JGard18; 08-19-2002 at 03:39 PM.
08-19-2002, 08:55 PM
#7
Originally posted by zoom44
dirfting in an AWD? who ever heard of that. certainly none of the rally drivers ever drift thru a corner!
dirfting in an AWD? who ever heard of that. certainly none of the rally drivers ever drift thru a corner!
Hmm
08-19-2002, 09:24 PM
#9
Re: Hmm
Originally posted by bebenikkz
Considering I want a car next summer and the Evo VII first comes out next year in the US, the overall idea of getting it is pretty bad huh ?
Considering I want a car next summer and the Evo VII first comes out next year in the US, the overall idea of getting it is pretty bad huh ?
Besides, the Evo VII is going to fly.. no doubt about it. But I prefer the niceties of the cabin of the RX-8, with good interior materials, better seats, and the removal of AWD to let me have my fun. Besides, you're better off looking at the Subaru WRX STi instead of the Evo VII (due out around the same time, if I recall correctly), as the cabin is nicer, the shifter is smoother, and the materials are a step above the Evo's.
ehhh
08-19-2002, 09:56 PM
#11
Originally posted by applejax
AWD = weight. Lots of it.
AWD = weight. Lots of it.
When you get into higher HP, then the AWD rocks.. but around 250, the RWD and AWD cars are going to remain pretty competitive off the line, whereas the RWD retains my personal fun-factor. AWD is more safety and grip.
08-20-2002, 12:22 AM
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Herc is right, AWD doesn't really help unless you have a lot of power that can really make use of four wheels worth of traction. AWD tends to have mild to moderate understeer when pushed hard in lower power cars. It is difficult to overcome with suspension modifications as it is a result of the power distribution properties per wheel, rather than the suspension.
Just look at the difference between the super touring cars and, an amateur race with nearly stock cars. In super touring, the cars can be modified with enough power w/ weight reductions to make AWD worthwhile, whereas, with near stock cars the AWD system's weight does not justify the grip advantage, unless on a wet track.
AWD drifting is certainly possible. You have to remember that the traction control of AWD is only on when you hit the gas. If you go into a turn fast enough and can transfer the weight properly by braking or other means, then you drift. Comming out of the drift is very easy with AWD as you can pretty much apply all the power you want with little risk of spinning out like a RWD car. AWD gains more stability in acceleration (hence the mild understeer), but you can power out of corners much earlier. How else did the audi's dominate the super touring races for so long with such enormous weight penalties until AWD was banned?
BTW--Powersliding is NOT considered a drift in racing.
Just look at the difference between the super touring cars and, an amateur race with nearly stock cars. In super touring, the cars can be modified with enough power w/ weight reductions to make AWD worthwhile, whereas, with near stock cars the AWD system's weight does not justify the grip advantage, unless on a wet track.
AWD drifting is certainly possible. You have to remember that the traction control of AWD is only on when you hit the gas. If you go into a turn fast enough and can transfer the weight properly by braking or other means, then you drift. Comming out of the drift is very easy with AWD as you can pretty much apply all the power you want with little risk of spinning out like a RWD car. AWD gains more stability in acceleration (hence the mild understeer), but you can power out of corners much earlier. How else did the audi's dominate the super touring races for so long with such enormous weight penalties until AWD was banned?
BTW--Powersliding is NOT considered a drift in racing.
08-20-2002, 12:58 AM
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Did you say RACE ? ' laughs ' Highly unlikely I will be doing " Fast and the Furious " type things with my first car. Yes, I said " Fast and the Furious ", since many people like to associate their cars with that movie now a days. Too funny. Dusting some cocky, riced- out " street racers " wouldn't hurt though. :p But back on track, AWD sounds good in convincing my dad to let me get a WRX. However, I still can't get over the appearance of the RX-8, both inside and out. I loooooove it ! Only thing that worries me is the pricing. There has to be someone who woks for Mazda in here or a least has a friend who works for Mazda ? Help somebody out wth a price quote ? :D
08-20-2002, 01:01 AM
#14
Originally posted by bebenikkz
Did you say RACE ? ' laughs ' Highly unlikely I will be doing " Fast and the Furious " type things with my first car. Yes, I said " Fast and the Furious ", since many people like to associate their cars with that movie now a days. Too funny. Dusting some cocky, riced- out " street racers " wouldn't hurt though. :p But back on track, AWD sounds good in convincing my dad to let me get a WRX. However, I still can't get over the appearance of the RX-8, both inside and out. I loooooove it ! Only thing that worries me is the pricing. There has to be someone who woks for Mazda in here or a least has a friend who works for Mazda ? Help somebody out wth a price quote ? :D
Did you say RACE ? ' laughs ' Highly unlikely I will be doing " Fast and the Furious " type things with my first car. Yes, I said " Fast and the Furious ", since many people like to associate their cars with that movie now a days. Too funny. Dusting some cocky, riced- out " street racers " wouldn't hurt though. :p But back on track, AWD sounds good in convincing my dad to let me get a WRX. However, I still can't get over the appearance of the RX-8, both inside and out. I loooooove it ! Only thing that worries me is the pricing. There has to be someone who woks for Mazda in here or a least has a friend who works for Mazda ? Help somebody out wth a price quote ? :D
By the way, is this your first car (since your parents are buying, I'm asking). If that is the case, I'd just buy a few year old Miata and trash it, then with the experience you've gained buy a nicer car like the WRX or whatever floats your boat
08-20-2002, 01:18 AM
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Originally posted by Hercules
The WRX STi is going to be at 30k as well, maybe a tad over...
By the way, is this your first car (since your parents are buying, I'm asking). If that is the case, I'd just buy a few year old Miata and trash it, then with the experience you've gained buy a nicer car like the WRX or whatever floats your boat
The WRX STi is going to be at 30k as well, maybe a tad over...
By the way, is this your first car (since your parents are buying, I'm asking). If that is the case, I'd just buy a few year old Miata and trash it, then with the experience you've gained buy a nicer car like the WRX or whatever floats your boat
p.s. I love going to import car shows. Hope that explains it. :D
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Please tell me those hideous gold rims are not the stock rims offered with the WRX STi ?! ahhh ' faints '
http://www.impreza.gr.jp/masa/subaru...newage2_23.jpg
Last edited by bebenikkz; 08-20-2002 at 01:58 AM.
08-25-2002, 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by fuz
Herc is right, AWD doesn't really help unless you have a lot of power that can really make use of four wheels worth of traction. AWD tends to have mild to moderate understeer when pushed hard in lower power cars. It is difficult to overcome with suspension modifications as it is a result of the power distribution properties per wheel, rather than the suspension.
Just look at the difference between the super touring cars and, an amateur race with nearly stock cars. In super touring, the cars can be modified with enough power w/ weight reductions to make AWD worthwhile, whereas, with near stock cars the AWD system's weight does not justify the grip advantage, unless on a wet track.
Herc is right, AWD doesn't really help unless you have a lot of power that can really make use of four wheels worth of traction. AWD tends to have mild to moderate understeer when pushed hard in lower power cars. It is difficult to overcome with suspension modifications as it is a result of the power distribution properties per wheel, rather than the suspension.
Just look at the difference between the super touring cars and, an amateur race with nearly stock cars. In super touring, the cars can be modified with enough power w/ weight reductions to make AWD worthwhile, whereas, with near stock cars the AWD system's weight does not justify the grip advantage, unless on a wet track.
I don't see the weight of AWD as an issue for debate especially, since it's already reflected in the performance figures. What I mean is that in the WRX or Evo, you don't have a choice of 2wd or AWD and everyone seems to agree that both will be quicker than the RX8. So, if they have a weight penalty and are still quicker, what's the point?
If you deal with rain or snow much, you'll love the AWD.
08-25-2002, 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by Evan
So, if they have a weight penalty and are still quicker, what's the point?
If you deal with rain or snow much, you'll love the AWD.
So, if they have a weight penalty and are still quicker, what's the point?
If you deal with rain or snow much, you'll love the AWD.
08-26-2002, 01:24 AM
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Like everyone else said, Sti and Evo VII are probably faster than a Rx-8, but since I'm not TOO into racing, WRX Sti and Evo VII
aren't nearly as special as a Rx-8. To someone who doesn't know about cars... Sti is only an impreza and Evo is a Lancer. (Although w/ WAYYYYYYYY better performance) However, a Rx-8 is a completely new styled car and has a better int. and ext. look IMO, thus it should be a better *SHOW CAR*. And as your first car you Really don't need the power of the Sti and Evo, Rx-8 should be enough or too much power for you. Also, a RWD car should be more Fun to drive. Yes JGard18 an AWD can be AS FUN but only when we are AT your skill levels.:p
aren't nearly as special as a Rx-8. To someone who doesn't know about cars... Sti is only an impreza and Evo is a Lancer. (Although w/ WAYYYYYYYY better performance) However, a Rx-8 is a completely new styled car and has a better int. and ext. look IMO, thus it should be a better *SHOW CAR*. And as your first car you Really don't need the power of the Sti and Evo, Rx-8 should be enough or too much power for you. Also, a RWD car should be more Fun to drive. Yes JGard18 an AWD can be AS FUN but only when we are AT your skill levels.:p
08-26-2002, 03:20 AM
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i can't believe what i keep reading!! the AWD cars don't understeer more than a RWD car... but ya, they are more stable. Handling can only be so neutral, and if it is neutral, being either AWD or RWD doesn't make it any more or less neutral, thus leaving AWD as teh better system for getting power to the road. Now ya, AWD cars DO understeer from factory, but i think as Evan said it's not a big deal to eliminate that, and you can end up with a predicably over-steering car if you like... i don't know how the suspension is set up, and whether it's adjustable or not, but a small toe adjustment makes an enormous difference, so fear not fellas.
And YAAAA!! JGard is right, any manouver a RWD car can do, an AWD car can do too (no, not "better")
drifting?? ALL the time, just watch rally... they do that with left-foot braking, as only those crazy rallying mothers do (while at full acceleration, they brake with the left foot to induce a break away of the rear end)...
and ya, they also use the handbrake (but i'm pretty sure the driver uses it, i wouldn't trust my co-driver to do it for me!!
) to really throw the car around a tight 180 bend...
it's not that they don't slide as far (which depends only on the Cf of your rubber on the road and the mass and energy of your vehicle) because of that "grip" you guys keep talking about...
which, really, is not really more grip. if both a RWD car and an AWD car have EXACTLY the same tyres on all four wheels, i mean same in EVERY way, they both have identical amounts of grip. With IDENTICAL engines, and IDENTICAL masses (for the example's sake, ok??) the AWD car MAY, like MIGHT be able to accelerate more quickly simply because it shares the force on all four tyres, whereas obviously the RWD car shares it on only two... there's not more grip, just better distributed accelerating force.
but ya, the differences and trade offs... more weight vs. distribution of acceleration forces (mostly for driveability's sake)
better is totally subjective, and is different for the application and what you want in the car (hence the opinionated responses... all valid!! nice thread guys)
And YAAAA!! JGard is right, any manouver a RWD car can do, an AWD car can do too (no, not "better")
drifting?? ALL the time, just watch rally... they do that with left-foot braking, as only those crazy rallying mothers do (while at full acceleration, they brake with the left foot to induce a break away of the rear end)...
and ya, they also use the handbrake (but i'm pretty sure the driver uses it, i wouldn't trust my co-driver to do it for me!!
) to really throw the car around a tight 180 bend...it's not that they don't slide as far (which depends only on the Cf of your rubber on the road and the mass and energy of your vehicle) because of that "grip" you guys keep talking about...
which, really, is not really more grip. if both a RWD car and an AWD car have EXACTLY the same tyres on all four wheels, i mean same in EVERY way, they both have identical amounts of grip. With IDENTICAL engines, and IDENTICAL masses (for the example's sake, ok??) the AWD car MAY, like MIGHT be able to accelerate more quickly simply because it shares the force on all four tyres, whereas obviously the RWD car shares it on only two... there's not more grip, just better distributed accelerating force.
but ya, the differences and trade offs... more weight vs. distribution of acceleration forces (mostly for driveability's sake)
better is totally subjective, and is different for the application and what you want in the car (hence the opinionated responses... all valid!! nice thread guys)
08-27-2002, 09:58 PM
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Ok ok ok, hit the brakes right here. Few rules of thumb I want you to live by, if you want it to last more than five years, dont make it a mitsu. The WRX STi does seem to be a cool ride, and even though i dont like Mitsubishi, the Evo's are killer rides. Keep in mind this, that EVO's in japan are going to be alot different then the ones over here, unless you wanna spend 46K with http://www.evolutionimports.com they will deliver a JDM Evo VII to your door, US street legal. The two biggest things that I have heard about the evo is this. For the USDM, no yaw control, that means the stellar handling that the EVO has over the pond, might not be here. And lack of power, contrary to popular belief, most EVO VII's have about 320 crank hp.
Also typical with many AWD cars are soft transfer cases which make every tuners life a living HELL. And EVO trannies, or mitsu's for that matter dont seem to Hold up that well.
and in many many many many occasions over in OZ, where they for some reason have a strange love affair with AWD cars, you can see 360's AWD Burnouts and Drifting in AWD Cars. Fuggin cool
Also typical with many AWD cars are soft transfer cases which make every tuners life a living HELL. And EVO trannies, or mitsu's for that matter dont seem to Hold up that well.
and in many many many many occasions over in OZ, where they for some reason have a strange love affair with AWD cars, you can see 360's AWD Burnouts and Drifting in AWD Cars. Fuggin cool
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