rx-8 pricing... sub 30,000? guess again
07-31-2002, 08:04 PM
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rx-8 pricing... sub 30,000? guess again
http://www.nctd.com/sneakpreviews/03mazdarx8_sp.cfm
By Daniel F. Carney
On sale: 2002?
Expected pricing: less than $37,000
When Mazda withdrew the RX-7 from the American market enthusiasts feared that we might have seen the last of the rotary engine. Mazda realizes that the rotary engine is a calling card that helps it carve an identity among often-indistinguishable Asian car companies. Mazda is trying to bring rotary power back to the U.S. market, but it wanted to avoid some of the mistakes that killed the RX-7.
With the third-generation RX-7 (the last one sold), Mazda was tempted into developing the fastest, most technologically sophisticated, most capable, sports car it could build. Cost was virtually no object. Unfortunately, the U.S. market taste for high-priced sports cars and coupes collapsed just as the third-generation RX-7 debuted in the early 1990s. Despite rave reviews, the car staggered through turbulent market conditions, its sales falling far below expectations. Its high price and highly focused sports attributes may have killed it. The Miata carried Mazda's sports car banner well, but it is an entry-level sports car. And, critically, the Miata lacks the rotary engine.
With the 2003 RX-8, Mazda will reintroduce the rotary engine, but in a more affordable, practical package than the RX-7.
The RX-8 will use a new, normally aspirated version of the rotary engine rated at 250 horsepower; the proposed engine is 30 percent lighter and smaller than the engine used in the RX-7. Unlike the third-generation RX-7, the RX-8 will not be turbocharged, making its engine less costly. Mazda hasn't decided on a price for the RX-8, but the company pledges that is will be less than the $37,000 price tag on the RX-7 when it last sold in this country.
Poor fuel economy and high levels of exhaust pollution have been challenges for the rotary engine in the past, but the RX-8 rotary engine features a new design that Mazda says will boost economy and clean up emissions. The redesigned engine will also feature a sporty low-pitched exhaust rumble, instead of the rotary engine's more typical high-pitched drone, Mazda executives said.
As before, the compact engine is mounted in the front of the car, but behind the front axle, to provide perfect 50/50 front/rear weight distribution for ideal handling characteristics. A new oil pan, half as deep as the sump on the RX-7, allows the engine to sit lower in the car, contributing to a lower center of gravity for better handling. A six-speed gearbox transmits power to the rear wheels, adding to the RX-8's sports car credentials.
The car's final weight has not been determined, but the company has aggressively trimmed mass from the RX-8 concept using aluminum and plastic for body panels and even installing a carbon composite driveshaft. Double-wishbone suspension (also known as unequal length control arm suspension) and large-diameter disc brakes reside at all four corners, boosting expectations that the RX-8 will put smiles on the faces of drivers who value responsive handling.
To broaden the car's appeal, Mazda has packed sedan-like interior space into the RX-8, squeezing that space under a coupe-styled exterior. The company boasts that the 10-cubic-foot trunk area will accommodate a pair of size 67 Samsonite suitcases. Access to the relatively spacious rear seat is through a pair of rear-hinged suicide doors, similar to the third door on the Saturn coupe.
While this design makes the RX-8 unquestionably more flexible than the RX-7, the jury is out on whether the resulting styling will be popular with prospective customers. Sports car and coupe buyers are a fashion-conscious lot after all.
The styling is notably smoother and more attractive than the RX-EVOLV concept, which foreshadowed some of the RX-8's styling themes when it debuted at the Tokyo Motor Show in 1999. RX-8 is slightly reminiscent of the styling of Mazda's MX-3 2+2 coupe of the early '90s. The view from the rear looks a bit like a Miata with the optional hardtop in place.
The high roofline that gives the RX-8 its slightly hunchbacked profile provides headroom for adult rear-seat passengers. That space, combined with the ease of entry and exit through the rear doors will make the RX-8 a practical sports car. It remains to be seen whether sports car buyers care about rear seat room, or whether driving enthusiasts who need a back seat would rather choose a traditional sport sedan with even more space and comfort. We'll find out when the car arrives in 2002 as a 2003 model.
Manufacturer Info Sources
1-800-248-0459
www.mazdausa.com
======================================
This is the first year model that they put a lot of Research and Development and Mazda knows a lot of people are going to want the car expect the price to be around 29,000 base and skyrocket to 35,000 with all the options. Mazda is not dumb and they are going milk this for all it's worth before Toyota and Honda and Hyndai come out with cheap 150HP knockoffs.
By Daniel F. Carney
On sale: 2002?
Expected pricing: less than $37,000
When Mazda withdrew the RX-7 from the American market enthusiasts feared that we might have seen the last of the rotary engine. Mazda realizes that the rotary engine is a calling card that helps it carve an identity among often-indistinguishable Asian car companies. Mazda is trying to bring rotary power back to the U.S. market, but it wanted to avoid some of the mistakes that killed the RX-7.
With the third-generation RX-7 (the last one sold), Mazda was tempted into developing the fastest, most technologically sophisticated, most capable, sports car it could build. Cost was virtually no object. Unfortunately, the U.S. market taste for high-priced sports cars and coupes collapsed just as the third-generation RX-7 debuted in the early 1990s. Despite rave reviews, the car staggered through turbulent market conditions, its sales falling far below expectations. Its high price and highly focused sports attributes may have killed it. The Miata carried Mazda's sports car banner well, but it is an entry-level sports car. And, critically, the Miata lacks the rotary engine.
With the 2003 RX-8, Mazda will reintroduce the rotary engine, but in a more affordable, practical package than the RX-7.
The RX-8 will use a new, normally aspirated version of the rotary engine rated at 250 horsepower; the proposed engine is 30 percent lighter and smaller than the engine used in the RX-7. Unlike the third-generation RX-7, the RX-8 will not be turbocharged, making its engine less costly. Mazda hasn't decided on a price for the RX-8, but the company pledges that is will be less than the $37,000 price tag on the RX-7 when it last sold in this country.
Poor fuel economy and high levels of exhaust pollution have been challenges for the rotary engine in the past, but the RX-8 rotary engine features a new design that Mazda says will boost economy and clean up emissions. The redesigned engine will also feature a sporty low-pitched exhaust rumble, instead of the rotary engine's more typical high-pitched drone, Mazda executives said.
As before, the compact engine is mounted in the front of the car, but behind the front axle, to provide perfect 50/50 front/rear weight distribution for ideal handling characteristics. A new oil pan, half as deep as the sump on the RX-7, allows the engine to sit lower in the car, contributing to a lower center of gravity for better handling. A six-speed gearbox transmits power to the rear wheels, adding to the RX-8's sports car credentials.
The car's final weight has not been determined, but the company has aggressively trimmed mass from the RX-8 concept using aluminum and plastic for body panels and even installing a carbon composite driveshaft. Double-wishbone suspension (also known as unequal length control arm suspension) and large-diameter disc brakes reside at all four corners, boosting expectations that the RX-8 will put smiles on the faces of drivers who value responsive handling.
To broaden the car's appeal, Mazda has packed sedan-like interior space into the RX-8, squeezing that space under a coupe-styled exterior. The company boasts that the 10-cubic-foot trunk area will accommodate a pair of size 67 Samsonite suitcases. Access to the relatively spacious rear seat is through a pair of rear-hinged suicide doors, similar to the third door on the Saturn coupe.
While this design makes the RX-8 unquestionably more flexible than the RX-7, the jury is out on whether the resulting styling will be popular with prospective customers. Sports car and coupe buyers are a fashion-conscious lot after all.
The styling is notably smoother and more attractive than the RX-EVOLV concept, which foreshadowed some of the RX-8's styling themes when it debuted at the Tokyo Motor Show in 1999. RX-8 is slightly reminiscent of the styling of Mazda's MX-3 2+2 coupe of the early '90s. The view from the rear looks a bit like a Miata with the optional hardtop in place.
The high roofline that gives the RX-8 its slightly hunchbacked profile provides headroom for adult rear-seat passengers. That space, combined with the ease of entry and exit through the rear doors will make the RX-8 a practical sports car. It remains to be seen whether sports car buyers care about rear seat room, or whether driving enthusiasts who need a back seat would rather choose a traditional sport sedan with even more space and comfort. We'll find out when the car arrives in 2002 as a 2003 model.
Manufacturer Info Sources
1-800-248-0459
www.mazdausa.com
======================================
This is the first year model that they put a lot of Research and Development and Mazda knows a lot of people are going to want the car expect the price to be around 29,000 base and skyrocket to 35,000 with all the options. Mazda is not dumb and they are going milk this for all it's worth before Toyota and Honda and Hyndai come out with cheap 150HP knockoffs.
07-31-2002, 09:08 PM
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Nothing in that article said that the RX-8 would be more then 30K. It only said that it would be less then the last RX-7 in the US which was 37K. Plus that artilce is old or they are not up-to-date because the RX-8 proto-type shown is not the latest. Many reputable sources inside and outside of Mazda say that it will be under 30K in the States.
07-31-2002, 09:55 PM
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We'll have to wait and see...
I've thought about the scenario you suggested, and it is well within the possiblities. I sure hope not, but I don't guess I'd be surprised. I'm still hoping a loaded one will be right around $30 K though. If it's up around $35,000, and the Subaru WRX STI is around $30,000, it may make my decision tougher than I thought it would be. I've been realistic about the rumors that have it starting around $25K, that sounds too good to be true.
As far as that article is concerned, it was just using that as a max figure based on one quote about the old RX-7. It's a pretty old article anyway, I first read it a long time ago. It shows it's age by using the red pictures that have been out for a long time. Every thing recent about the car shows the yellow pictures. There are also a few other example of early mis-information in it, such as it will be released in 2002 as a 2003 model. Boy, I wish.
As far as that article is concerned, it was just using that as a max figure based on one quote about the old RX-7. It's a pretty old article anyway, I first read it a long time ago. It shows it's age by using the red pictures that have been out for a long time. Every thing recent about the car shows the yellow pictures. There are also a few other example of early mis-information in it, such as it will be released in 2002 as a 2003 model. Boy, I wish.
08-01-2002, 12:59 AM
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The article doesn't say it will be $37k. It just says it will be less than the $37k that the RX7 went for. Anyway if it did go for $37k, Mazda might as well pack it up and go home. At that price, there is no way they will be able to convince the average american (who only knows brand names) to spend that much on a Mazda when he could pick up a Lexus IS300, Infinity G35, or even a BMW. And once again, they will have miserable sales figures for the rotary cars.
08-01-2002, 09:15 AM
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Good points. But in general there is no way the car is going to be around 25,000. A RSX type S is 23,000. Plus from what I read from pricing in other countries it looks to be around 28-29K base. I just hope they add a power moonroof as an option. But that might screw up the rigidity of the chasis. =/
Lastly don't forget dealer markups. Like the Hyundai Santa Fe is going for 22,000 ish when it use to be only 18,000 only because of the popularity and good reviews it's getting. But still it's a DAM HYUNDAI!@#$ oh welp only what another 6 months to go till the rx-8 is in dealers?... i hope???
Lastly don't forget dealer markups. Like the Hyundai Santa Fe is going for 22,000 ish when it use to be only 18,000 only because of the popularity and good reviews it's getting. But still it's a DAM HYUNDAI!@#$ oh welp only what another 6 months to go till the rx-8 is in dealers?... i hope???
Last edited by block911; 08-01-2002 at 09:17 AM.
08-01-2002, 11:48 AM
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I also think $25 is a bit on the low side, given the performance of the RX-8. I expect pricing to be similar to the 350Z, so maybe a base model will start at the $26-27 range.
Dealer markups are unavoidable with every new release. Nissan did an interesting thing with the release of the 350Z: they offered a pre-order system where you could custom configure your car and submit your order well in advance of the release (preorders started in January and the car is being released this month). Dealers were strongly encouraged to sell them at MSRP. Based on what I've read on the Z forums, almost everyone was able to get it for MSRP.
Maybe Mazda might consider doing the same thing with the RX-8. I'm sure there are enough die-hard rotary fanatics that would be willing to buy the car without even seeing it in person. After all, there were ~7000 Z fanatics that pre-ordered!
Dealer markups are unavoidable with every new release. Nissan did an interesting thing with the release of the 350Z: they offered a pre-order system where you could custom configure your car and submit your order well in advance of the release (preorders started in January and the car is being released this month). Dealers were strongly encouraged to sell them at MSRP. Based on what I've read on the Z forums, almost everyone was able to get it for MSRP.
Maybe Mazda might consider doing the same thing with the RX-8. I'm sure there are enough die-hard rotary fanatics that would be willing to buy the car without even seeing it in person. After all, there were ~7000 Z fanatics that pre-ordered!
08-01-2002, 04:10 PM
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Pre-Order
I agree with the pre-order idea Pork Chop has. As pointed out, it worked extremely well for Nissan.
I want an RX-8 as soon as it comes out, but I have been skeptical about putting a deposit on a car when I don't even know its pricing scheme.
Like every other buyer, I want to be able to buy exactly what I want. The pre-order would resolve such hastles for potential buyers. And keep us from waiting months for the car we want.
Also, I hope the RX-8 doesn't top out at 36K like the 350Z Track version does. I love Mazda and the rotary, and have no doubt that its handling will be hands down better than the Z. But if the RX-8 is above 35K and doesn't deliver at least comparable 60 and 1/4 mile times to the Z (5.4 and 14 from "Car and Driver"), it will be very disappointing.
I want an RX-8 as soon as it comes out, but I have been skeptical about putting a deposit on a car when I don't even know its pricing scheme.
Like every other buyer, I want to be able to buy exactly what I want. The pre-order would resolve such hastles for potential buyers. And keep us from waiting months for the car we want.
Also, I hope the RX-8 doesn't top out at 36K like the 350Z Track version does. I love Mazda and the rotary, and have no doubt that its handling will be hands down better than the Z. But if the RX-8 is above 35K and doesn't deliver at least comparable 60 and 1/4 mile times to the Z (5.4 and 14 from "Car and Driver"), it will be very disappointing.
08-01-2002, 05:21 PM
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Handling is Mazda's pride. From the Protege to the Tribute all of their vehicles handle with the best of 'em. There's no doubt the RX-8 will be better than the new Z. Plus, it's also just great to have something different than the average boring V6.
08-02-2002, 03:48 PM
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I don't know how anyone could possibly take the WRX Sti over the RX-8. I've sat in a plain old WRX and the interior is about the same level as my Sentra GXE '01. Basically you're buying a subcompact with a turbo charger and a big inline-4. The ergonomics are bad, and the plastics are cheap. At least for the same price you get an RX-8 with nice interior, and a classier look.
08-02-2002, 04:21 PM
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TheLaw, your points are true about the Subaru, which is why I am leaning more heavily toward the RX-8. One thing that the WRX has going for it is that I don't think I've ever had a bigger grin on my face than when I drive one of those cars. You said you sat in one, and I had the same impression when I first sat in one-nice, but nothing special. But once that tach rotates past 3500, the interior doesn't matter. Plus it's all-wheel-drive, easily modified, and pretty affordable. The only reason I didn't buy one was that I was waiting for the STI version. During my wait, I discovered the Mazda RX-8 and the more I've learned the more I like it. I'm also guessing it will have at least as high of a grin factor. Subaru looses for being to slow releasing the higher-performance model. Let's hope Mazda doesn't make the same mistake holding back the hot version of the RX-8. Please release the Mazdaspeed cocurrently with the initial release.
08-03-2002, 03:32 AM
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Nixing the rx-8.. sorry
I just got my civic "ricer" smashed in the back while waiting at a red light. That was my first accident and Holy $hit I've never been hit so hard in my entire life.. and now I truely get why people wear seatbelts. If it wasn't for the belts my head woulda gone straight through the windshield. At anyrate, my modded up muffler, bumper, brakes and wheel alignment are all fuged up which now turned me off to all sport type cars. Why get a fresh/hot car when some careless stupid fuq can just smash you up and ruin a sweet ride... (yes i am frigin pissed) My next ride will be an f'n Dodge Durango I was amazed at how easily my whole car got tossed because it's so light.
Sorry just venting and I'll probably change my mind once the jerks insurance pays for the repairs.
I just got my civic "ricer" smashed in the back while waiting at a red light. That was my first accident and Holy $hit I've never been hit so hard in my entire life.. and now I truely get why people wear seatbelts. If it wasn't for the belts my head woulda gone straight through the windshield. At anyrate, my modded up muffler, bumper, brakes and wheel alignment are all fuged up which now turned me off to all sport type cars. Why get a fresh/hot car when some careless stupid fuq can just smash you up and ruin a sweet ride... (yes i am frigin pissed) My next ride will be an f'n Dodge Durango I was amazed at how easily my whole car got tossed because it's so light.
Sorry just venting and I'll probably change my mind once the jerks insurance pays for the repairs.
wow....
08-03-2002, 09:26 PM
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In general rotories are more expensive up front and to maintain and later on to rebuild over a piston engine as well as lower gas mileage. The rx-8 is suppose to have a revolutionary design where some of those issues are addressed.
08-03-2002, 09:45 PM
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Well you can actually purchase rotary engines and put them into another car yourself. I'm sure it's extremely expensive, and you'd probably mess up your car. But hey, you gotta try everything once!
08-04-2002, 10:14 AM
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I`m getting mine at MSRP too
I don`t know what kind of arrangements the dealerships have with Mazda, but I`m on my dealers list for the RX-8 and I too am getting it at MSRP (no commitment, final desision of purchase ENTIRELY dependent on test drive. upon purchase, deposit ENTIRELY credited towards payment, upon refusal, deposit ENTIRELY refunded)
I guess that`s as close to Nissans custom made Z`s as Mazdas willing to go
I guess that`s as close to Nissans custom made Z`s as Mazdas willing to go
08-04-2002, 11:19 AM
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It's better to wait a few months though.. you can take advantage of all those year end clearences. Only you might not get the color you want unless you really shop around. Or wait 2-3 years for leases to expire and then get it for dirt cheap with only 36,000 miles on it.
08-04-2002, 11:30 AM
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that`s what I was asking about in an other thread!
well, since I`m getting the answe here:
will waiting till October (year end clearences) really help?
think about it:
1.there isn`t a whole fleet of RX-8 s being made availabe this year (my dealers getting 4 of them in all, I was the last to put down)
2.this is a brand new 2004 model, I don`t see why the dealerships would feel any pressure to lower prices even in the year end...
will waiting till October (year end clearences) really help?
think about it:
1.there isn`t a whole fleet of RX-8 s being made availabe this year (my dealers getting 4 of them in all, I was the last to put down)
2.this is a brand new 2004 model, I don`t see why the dealerships would feel any pressure to lower prices even in the year end...
08-05-2002, 07:19 AM
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Year-end clearances? Give your head a shake.
My dealer is only getting three for the entire year and they pre-sold them all in April, fortunately mine is one of them.
My dealer is only getting three for the entire year and they pre-sold them all in April, fortunately mine is one of them.
08-05-2002, 07:58 AM
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That's all well and good but in general it's a bad idea to get the first generation of any model... Whatever quirks or bugs will get fixed in the 2005 model. With that in mind I'm not rich enough to buy/ sell cars on a yearly basis. Plus isn't mazda looking to mass sell these?
08-05-2002, 08:49 AM
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give your head a shake?!
I'm not sure what you mean by that, ZommZoom, but the reasoning you gave was EXACTLY the same as what I put on my post, so we're seeing things in the same light.
Any way, I just put down for the RX-8 (getting it at MSRP IF I decide to buy it, that is...) but the point is waiting for next years model might be better.
Any way, I just put down for the RX-8 (getting it at MSRP IF I decide to buy it, that is...) but the point is waiting for next years model might be better.
08-05-2002, 11:09 AM
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rx-pecting and zoomzooom your dealers know haw many they are getting? mine won't tell me anything like that they keep saying they haven't been told. i'm going to have to call them again. when did they tell you how many?
08-05-2002, 02:11 PM
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bull, in my opinion...
I keep getting the impression that dealers are holding out on us. I have no doubt that they're largely ignorant on the product (I'm sure avg awareness here is superior to avg dealers), but when it comes to legalities, ie, how many cars, when they will arrive, etc.. they MUST know.
my dealer said it was getting 4 of them, that was the highest count in the dealers I called (in Mtrl). But you can order them from the dealership (don't know what commitment you set yourself up to though) if theyre sold out.
the general Idea is that were gonna be the beta users (lab rats) so the first wave of releases is pre-emptive IMHO.
hope that helps
my dealer said it was getting 4 of them, that was the highest count in the dealers I called (in Mtrl). But you can order them from the dealership (don't know what commitment you set yourself up to though) if theyre sold out.
the general Idea is that were gonna be the beta users (lab rats) so the first wave of releases is pre-emptive IMHO.
hope that helps