Is this the rock bottom for RX-8s?
 

I'm sure the question has not only cross my mind, but others on the forum/community as well. This applies for those who have been around for long enough to see when the RX-8's resale value was above the $10,000 mark, the past decade I'd say.

Granted this forum contains a wealth of information collection over the past 15 years, the glory days seem long gone, senior members (which pioneered aftermarket expansion) are disappearing by the day, values have plummeted below $5000 for mint S1's, and worst of all... Credible aftermarket support is diminishing. Just take a look at the vendors and group buys section.

Personally, I scraped the bottom of the barrel to buy my RX-8 (which was a dream car) during college. Fast forward a decade when I actually have the funds to do anything with the car, I have outgrown the car, especially since we have two daily drivers and we're having a child. It has taken me two damn years to swap my suspension to KW V3's, so that alone tells a story of how much time I have for the RX-8. Nowadays, I look into practical 5 door "sporty" cars such as Audi S5 Sportbacks and BMW 440i Gran Coupes as my next purchase. I assume it's similar for those leaving the RX-8 community.

It seems like the RX-8 has reach rock bottom, where it's an environment for teen bros thirsty for vapes and stance. It's no longer feasible for companies to offer high figure price point and quality products for the RX-8, which makes me even more thankful for remaining supporters such as BHR and Racing beat. The ease of power increase for other cars certainly doesn't help the RX-8's relevance.

These are constant thoughts when I come across my RX-8, and it's a damn shame. I'm curious what the senior members have to say about the RX-8 community nowadays.

I'm also a forum member and former owner of a boosted Toyota Paseo.
There is still a ways to go until bottom, trust me ;)

Life is going to get in the way if you let it, find a way to enjoy the car and you won't need to worry about resale value or what some kids are into.

That is true. I'm not worried about resale value; I know my low mileage mint RX-8 is worth nothing and I accepted that. However, it is becoming less relevant especially knowing that aftermarket support is diminishing. The only reason I kept the car is because I wish it to remain as a hobby to enjoy.

As said teens buy and ultimately ruin the cars they buy, the nice 8's will become more rare. If the 8 truly is the last rotary powered car EVER, it's value will go up eventually. It's only been a few years since production ended and normally it takes a decade or 2 before it starts to climb. Now is THE time to buy one IMO as they can't go much lower. Hold onto it. Keep the miles low. One day they'll be collector cars.

I think they will fall a bit further still, but not much. Eventually they will get cheap enough to entice the cheap people from 240SX's and E36's into destroying RX-8's. About 12-24 months after that, they may appreciate a little, like the 240's and E36's did.

I aim to get one more RX-8, either a Shinka S1 or an R3 S2 as my daily driver. At that time, my current GT will become a track car, possibly with an engine swap of some sort. I just don't want to bastardize my only RX-8 into a track car; if I get a second one to keep near stock and tidy, I'd be more inclined to strip this one down.

I agree with those who feel the car will continue to depreciate in value for another few years. But I do believe the 8 will then start to become a desirable collectible. And no, not just collectible in the way that any 20+ year old car is somewhat collectible; but because, in addition to that, the 8 was and is a car truly loved by folks who really know and appreciate great cars. That's what will separate it from well-preserved Fieros, Triumph TR7s and MGBs; the fact that, unlike those sports cars, the RX-8 was universally praised and loved - from day one - by knowing sports car aficianados.

It will be in demand, and there won't be many to go around.

I picked my S1 up for $1500 CDN. They guy thought it was dead. Running ones seem to be about 3.5-7k CDN. I think they will become a pretty popular chassis again at that price. Probably mainly for engine swaps though. Way better deal than some bagged 240 and most Rx7s as both FCs And FDs seem to be way overvalued in comparison. I went with the 8 for price, interior quality and they are far easier to find parts for being less than 2 decades old.

Don't know if this is helpful, but perhaps what's called for is a change of how one thinks about this car. Maybe it's time to start thinking of the 8 not as a modern car, but rather as an excellent classic car that one can still get parts and service for rather easily. I mean, when you think about the lengths classic car nuts go to to keep their pride and joy vehicles on the road, we have it kinda easy, no?

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...d4e8b8dc62.jpg

Sorry, no can do. I buy the car to enjoy it, not to let it rot in a garage.

And if a car is valuable, mileage doesn't play that much of a role, especially in a car that will have its engine replaced in its lifetime anyway.

There are much better ways to make money...

Personally, I like to keep the car close to stock. Not too serious about performance, since I don't have the skills anyway.

BTW, most of the 8s in my area aren't really riced. Some of them come a bit close, but nothing like your typical riced Honda Civic. This is not Purely, LOL.

"With Mustang prices and Porsche handling, it could’ve inspired both ends of the spectrum to do better."

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/2011-M...verview-c22563

It's definitely an enthusiast's car.
The corporate vendor support will eventually go away, but as long as there're people willing to spend money, someone will fill the void.
A young person who's willing to learn could make decent side money flipping 8s.
If I was younger, I'd do it.

I know someone who made a bit of money flipping NA Miatas just when the value started to go up.

Right now, though, flipping 8s won't be very profitable. Maybe it will be in the future.

Just had to bum me out on a Friday morning, didn't you? Sigh.

I'm in this weird place, where I still love my 8, but can't decide what to do with it. Right now, assuming it passes a compression test, it is worth the most it probably ever will be again, which makes part of me want to sell it, should the right enthusiast come along. It doesn't seem smart to let it depreciate down to nothing, and a lightly used M2 sure looks attractive to that part of me. Other parts of me want to keep it until the bitter end; make it my enthusiast car for the next decade or more.

Mine is a 2011 GT with a mint body and interior with 42K miles on the original engine. (A lot of those miles are track miles.) Since buying an old Miata 2 years ago, the 8 has not seen much track time at all and has done a little bit of daily driver duty on the odd nice Friday or weekend. It mostly sits in the garage on a battery tender these days.

I dunno.

I know I would regret parting with mine.
It does have failing compression, but still runs good & is my DD.
It's going to take a lot for me to get rid of it.

I also like the fact that it being a LY GT likely makes it rare, and I never see another one like it.

As a new-erish-bie I'd like to put my thoughts into this.

I think these cars will flip around before you know it, we are not trailing real far behind the S2000, (and 350Z) Crowd in terms of Value with the exception of mint condition AP2's.. A good friend of mine picked up a phenomenal S2000 with some basic, yet tasteful mods to make it more driver focused for a mere $8500 a few weeks ago for example. It is a very nice car, and in good condition, though not so nice we aren't afraid drive it extensively on the back roads or at the Track. Will the RX-8 Ever have quite as much of a premium as S2000s? Probably not - but they only recently, in the last year or two I would say mainly, have begun to be on the upswing in terms of appreciating, especially the AP1's which I think is the best comparison to the RX-8.

These Cars are a true Gem for anyone that just want's to drive them, and drive them hard.. It will just take some time for the right crowd to notice them again.

We spent 2 hours, roughly 110 miles yesterday doing a heavily spirited back road drive as a group, I think the car's power is extremely adequate - Quick enough not to be boring, but slow enough you can spend alot of time being Full Throttle in 2nd, 3rd, and some of 4th without getting too crazy. I spent majority of the drive, letting the car just absolutely sing up and down from 6,000-9,000RPM, Oil Consumption was great, Temp and Oil Did not budge a tick from that entire drive. All original Radiator and Oil Coolers Still, and still hot started after that after only 2-3 cranks, like any normal healthy engine would.

I've put about 18,000 Miles (83,000 June 2017, 101,000 Today) on my RX-8 since I bought it June 2017, and the car has not missed a beat, they have not been easy going highway miles either. The Car has been to Road America 3 times this year alone... Excluding Coilovers, and Exhaust. I've only put about $800 into it since then including a set of tires, keeping up with the car.

It gets looks everywhere it goes, people ask about it all the time - When I was in Elk Hart Lake for Concourse D' Elegance, last weekend, a place and event that is just overflowing with cars I could only dream of affording (991 GT2 RS, 918, New Ford GT, was all there etc) I still saw people taking pictures of the car as I drove around town back and forth between my hotel.

The point of me telling you this, is that I paid $4500 for this car, and It just blows my mind how incredible it has been from using it for A-B when I want to take a car somewhere that isn't basically a Race car and has cold AC, to using it as a track car. Not to mention its 9/10 condition interior, and exterior.. The Car could grenade itself on the highway today for all I care today, and It would be Worth Every Penny I paid in terms of how much Joy I got out of it, and worth Every Penny I would need to spend, to rebuild it.

And because of those things, I think alot of people are beginning to notice them again, and go "Hmmm, I wonder." and hit up AutoTrader, and then actually read up on how bad the Renesis Reliability ISN'T, then start looking for good, clean, well maintained examples of their own - and over the course of a year, two years, the value is going to turn around pretty quick.

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net...79&oe=5BDD9E66

Good story.

Also cool that you snapped a pic of it at a gas pump.

:yelrotflm

"Life After 8000 RPM: Lotus Elise and Mazda RX-8" Automobile Magazine, 1/12
 

https://www.automobilemag.com/news/l...se-mazda-rx-8/

"It’s too bad that you can’t buy a new car with a rotary engine or one that weighs less than a ton (save for the Smart ForTwo), but when good cars can’t be bought in dealerships, they trade in a market that values them as more than cars. Prized by dedicated enthusiasts and collectors, they ascend to a legendary status. Even if the Lotus Elise and the Mazda RX-8 aren’t quite legends yet, their retirement certainly puts them one step closer."

it was more for reinforcement of how clean of a car you can buy for $4500 that is in need of almost nothing to drive and enjoy for 20,000 miles...

The rx-8 is a great deal for someone looking to get into a great designed car for handling. The engine is great with its linear power delivery and does well on tracks and street. yea it gets bad mileage but so does a lot of other sports cars.

I also own an FD and I like the rx-8 chassis more, I just wish the car was as light as the FD is after I sucked a lot of weight out of the FD.

Both cars are amazing. The rx-8 is definitely underpriced, but I own a lot of cars that people are afraid of and they seem to be reliable for me.

Not rock bottom.....getting better
 

This is my seventh rotary engine car, and the only one I still have. Man I wish I could have afforded to keep them all, each one was special to me. But life and work and marriages got in the way. So I am keeping my 2008 40th Anniversary Edition, knowing they only made 1000 of these exact US version 40th Anniversary editions. Whether anyone else thinks of it as a classic one day, does not matter to me. To me it represents all the one million+ miles of fun I have had on the track and street in my 40+ plus years of rotary car ownership from stock to 400+ horsepower, NA to twin-turbo. I have replaced the engine and done complete maintenance, have upgraded ignition, upgraded the cooling system for Texas climate and it stays garaged between fun drives. Not going to track this one, been there, done that with my three generations of RX7s. As long as i can keep it in parts and shop work with great folks like BHR, Pettit Racing, Mazmart, Racing Beat; JPR, Rotary Performance etc. it will live on into the future with me at the helm for as long as I can. Cheers

I'm seeing the same thing here. basically anything under 70k miles and the price jumps. It all depends on what you're prepared to do. I'm trying to find a decent one right now in my area but I'm basically resigning myself to the idea of having to flush everything, doing all the longevity mods, and saving for a Pettit motor when the engine goes shortly after purchase. Most of what is in the Phoenix area is just sun blistered junk that's only good for parts. The junk yards here have a number of 8s in them, so at least I should have an easier time finding those than most in the coming years.

If you wait long enough you will find a gem kept in the garage with low mileage. I'm new to the rx8. Have been looking for 6 months. I just got an 05 with 26k miles. I just missed 2 other deals...one had 16k and the other 35k . They do pop up but you have to be patient. Got mine on the road today. What a blast! Test drove a 350z and Mercedes CLK but the RX is so much more exhilarating.

Need help
 

New to the forum. I can rep!y to an existing thread but cannot initiate my own thread. What am I missing?

Reading the rules.

You can create threads within the New Member subforum.
You need to be here 30 days and have 10 posts to create a thread outside of the New Member subforum.

https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-f...or%3E%3C-b%3E/


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...bf6f5e61e3.jpg

I have less than 25,000 miles on an 09 R3 that I drive daily. Maybe one day it will be worth something but it doesn't really matter since I don't ever plan on selling it.

Perhaps I can add here. Been Rotary since 1981. In late 2016 my 2017 BMW M2 arrived. 5 cars, 3 car garage. Fuck. And Michigan winters. Fuck x 2. After heartbreaking decision, the 2010 RX-8 GT that I bought brand new was sold. The M2 assumed its space. And I was rotary-less for the first time in ? . The M2 is an incredible car. I love it. Guess what - the RX-8 puts a bigger smile on my face. My wife ( She is an incredible woman ), told me late last year to go get another RX-8. I did. And it gets the most of my attention in a stable of European beauties.
Point of story ? Keep your 8. If you sell it, you will be back to looking for one at some point in your life's journey. Trust me

I can relate as well. I have debated on letting go of the RX-8, but the reality is, its not worth much and I'm better just keeping it. I feel I have outgrown the RX-8, however when i do drive it, it puts a smile on my face. However, I do feel that the community has taken a down turn.

When these cars were first introduced, they were immediately a niche market vehicle. Certain colors like Nordic Green and Lightning Yellow were super hard to get and Mazda dealers were, in some cases, charging more than retail for the vehicle. I had to settle on a Brilliant Black model over the Nordic Green that I wanted originally because of the then supply and demand for that color. When it was inroduce it was revolutionary to say the least. To me, it was breathtaking to see on the road. The car has been and will always be a car true enthusiasts appreciate. My opinion is that the value has sunk because of people's impression that the Renesis engine is prone to early failure as compared with previous RX-7's. With that said, when someone new here asks our opinion on a potential purchase, what is the first thing we tall them? Get a proper compression test done because the cost of a rebuild can exceed the current value of the car. This is the reason that the value of the car is as low as it is. People are scared of a potential engine failure and when they find out what it will cost to replace or rebuild the engine they sell their 8 cheap or as a buyer, run away from the car. The S2000 and the 350Z that someone above was comparing our cars to do not have high engine failure rates as compared to the RX-8. Sure they both have their issues but what car does not. People are not scared of the cost of parts outweighing the cost of the vehicle at this point of those cars.

With that said, a true enthusiast, one that appreciates and loves the car does not allow the weight of potential engine failure to get in the way of their ownership and driving enjoyment. A true enthusiast does what he or she can to get in front of potential issues before they surface and performs the preventative maintenance. The value of an enthusiast owned RX-8 is always higher than that of some younger kid that has beat the car to death. We know its an exceptionally fun and quick car that can be had for a reasonable price. Kids are getting the cars for a bargain and destroying them and that too is contributing to the low values we are seeing.

The supply of RX-8's will start to decline and most of the kids will have found another car to beat on and destroy and us true enthusiasts will save the ones left to languish and because there will not be many left in an unmodified or run down state, the values will increase. When? That is the question we all wonder. Took the 1st Generation RX-7 nearly 30 years before its value started to increase and people started to appreciate the original and unmodified examples again. And while some can still be bought cheaply, many are downright expensive compared to what they once were. That is a good thing. The RX-8 has so much to offer and people outside the community will see that once again and the values will come back. I'm personally hanging onto my two and I'm looking to buy a few more that are in need of repair. I'll buy them cheap and put money into them and enjoy them because I know how amazing of a car the RX-8 is and I love and appreciate it.

By the way the market seems to be going, getting a decent powered sports car is seems to be getting harder to find. I think for this very reason RX-8s will make somewhat of a comeback. The funny thing is though, when I’m driving around and people ask me questions about mine, they don’t even know what it is and think it’s a new car lol

This is the circle of life for all enthusiast cars. They are applauded when new, forgotten after a few years, and finally appreciated as classics 20+ years later. My first Porsche was a 1970 911T that I bought for $4500 in 2003. I sold it a year later for $7500 and thought I did great. I'd be hard pressed to get the same car today for less than probably $60k. The early 911 market is a unique case and I would never suggest getting an RX-8 as an "investment", but I think they will eventually be appreciated.

I'm in the boat of having come back to the RX-8. I had a 2005 Sport that I sold a few years ago but remembered fondly. In a recent push to simplify my life I sold an FD RX-7, 911SC, and D2 S8, and replaced them all with a 2009 RX-8 R3. I sold three fantastic cars, but really don't feel that I'm missing much. For the money you'll be hard pressed to find anything with this combination of fun, handling, functionality, and uniqueness.

I think at current prices, the RX-8 is an incredible value for track duty. I know with only minor modifications(springs/sways/tires) mine can easily catch and pass some more modern "sportscars" costing multiples more, and I'd describe myself as an "average" driver on a good day. The engine seems to like the high rev's, and to date it's been the most reliable track car I own...

It'll probably never be worth much, but it sure is a cheap/fairly capable way to enjoy some track days. (pretty easy on consumables too - other than gas of course)

Agreed. In fact, I suspect rx8club.com has done more to diminish the appeal of our cars than actual incidents of "engine failure" which, I believe, is actually an emotionally loaded misnomer that would make a "Fox News" writer proud; the engine doesn't "fail" like a traditional engine, it doesn't suddenly seize or blow a hole through a cylinder wall with a loud, dramatic "bang" as it suddenly comes to a halt in the middle of the highway, telltale columns of steam rising up from under the hood. And make no mistake, that's what unsuspecting, potential buyers conjure up when they hear "engine failure". In reality, casually maintained Renesis engines are prone to problems that result, most commonly, in a gradual loss of compression, to the point where the car loses power or, in some cases, won't even start. The "failure" actually refers to failing a compression test, indicating said loss of compression and, the engine being what it is, it ultimately needs to be replaced rather than repaired, as it's easier and more economical to swap 'em out than fix 'em. So be it.

Here's a little experiment: try driving an 8 with engine failure. If you can start it (and often, you can), you may notice a lack of power in the upper rev band. Now… try driving a 911 or a Z-car or a BMW with "engine failure". See how far you get.

Well said!


Semantics.

I think both Mazda and your "Average Joe" drivers are at fault here.

On some level, you have to admit that Mazda made some questionable decisions. The potato early ignition coils, 2 oil injectors per rotor for S1, the 4-port engine option(my opinion, just feels like it shouldn't exist) are all problems. A rotary also doesn't last as long as a piston engine due to its inherent design, and it drinks a lot of gas for the kind of power it makes.

But at the same time, like half the drivers don't know how to check oil level in the US and Canada, and rotaries burn oil by design. You can see how this ends.

It's not Mazda's fault that people aren't following their instructions, and it's not the driver's fault that the early coils are crapping out at 30k miles.

In the end, you just gotta make everything more idiot-proof.

New Yorker:

- The consensus with premix is that there is quite a lot of evidence to point out that it helps, but since there isn't a published controlled lab test, there is still no 100% concrete evidence.

- I never let any of my car "warm up", since none of the cars I have driven are carburated. Per Owner's Manual, I do wait about 15~30 seconds before I start driving, but I never wait until it reaches operating temperature in the garage. I do make sure I take it easy when the engine is cold, though.

They do last when looked after.

What seems to kill cars in Ireland is sill-rust, which is an NCT fail. In the UK it's stationary bearing failure.

Mine hast rust but it's been treated for it with specialist paint (The joys of black paint).. The engine was running fine at 157k and was only 'killed' by a sparkplug breaking off and getting sucked through it. Even then it still ran almost normally, hot-started well and made good power. It just sounded like a bearing had failed with a bastard of a cold-start rattle, and another at high revs. Otherwise it'd been perfectly healthy despite being on 'poor' compression for 4 years.

Posts like what what, stating reality? Sorry to burst your bubble.

Did you even read what you just wrote, lol.

Says premixing is not required, but does it anyway. Your comments make for a compelling argument...:icon_tup:

The rest of your post reads like a list of excuses and tells me you're either in denial, or just haven't come to terms with why these vehicles are worth SFA.

I bought this car knowing it was a niche car, with strengths that almost no one cares about, and weaknesses that are deal-breakers for almost everyone.

I had no idea how right I was until I joined the community. Even most RX-8 owners have no concept of what makes this car uniquely great, i.e. handling and feel combined with some practicality. They like it because of how it looks, or because it has some kind of crazy engine, or because they think it's fast, or because of how cheaply they can buy it. Then it bites them, or the illusion just shatters. Then they neglect the car, or just can't afford to do right by it. Then they fob it off on the next unsuspecting person, and the cycle continues.

Most half-decent cars will eventually get to the point where a truly mint example can fetch a surprising price. I don't think that counts as a car "going up in value." What counts is when the less-than-mint examples also go up in value. AFAICT, for that to happen, a car needs to have one or more of the following:

1. Something that appeals to normal people, like speed or luxury
2. Cult status that is broadly recognized
3. Some kind of major achievement that most people can understand

The RX-8 ticks none of those boxes.

This forum is a bubble that helps us convince ourselves that the RX-8 is more appreciated than it is. Yeah, 10+ years from now, it'll be a highly desirable classic -- to us. The rest of the world will just shake its head and move on. There just aren't enough of us, and everyone else has no idea what we're smoking.

I hope I'm wrong about all this. I do plan to keep my R3 long enough to find out. But that's only because it's the right car for me, and I'm fairly sure the auto industry will never do better for my tastes. And that means I'll be driving the piss out of it until I can't any more. If I'm wrong, and resale values rebound in the future, that'll be a nice bonus.

Cool story...:icon_tup:

I agree for the most part, but don't most classics only make sense to enthusiasts?

See FD RX-7 and Gen 1 Acura NSX for examples. They are cult classics, but that's about what they have going for them. The former has even more of a glass heart than the 8, while the latter only has "meh" level power. If you are not an enthusiast, you will be buying a new car with a much better value.

And to a lesser extent, the NA Miata is like this, too. Why the fook would any rational being pay 4~5 grand for a sub-100 HP, 20+-year-old car?

Someday the 8 might achieve that status. We will have to see.

Personally, I bought the 8 because I know I can put up with the disadvantages and it ticks a lot of the boxes, and I also like owning something somewhat rare you don't see every day.

Otherwise, I would have gotten a Civic Si Coupe or another Accord Coupe V6 w/ 6-speed.

Both of those cars were blisteringly quick in their days. The FD is still pretty quick by modern standards, and can be easily modded for more speed.

The NSX singlehandedly changed the course of the industry by smashing the assumption that supercars would always be unruly and unreliable. It has HUGE historical significance. The FD isn't on that level historically, but it's still part of the '90s Japanese giant-killer firmament along with the Skyline GT-R and Supra.

They were also total bedroom wall poster fodder when they came out, and they still hold up pretty well in that respect.

So yeah, if you're not an enthusiast, you'll probably want something else. But even then, you'll still probably have some respect for those cars because they have a pretty broad, easily-understood appeal. That appeal means there are a lot of people who'd buy them given the chance, which is what drives the value up.

I'd argue that the RX-8 did for handling what the FD did for overall speed, i.e. make the highest tier (at the time) accessible to the masses. But speed is something everyone understands and a lot of people value. So is a sexy looking exterior. Handling... isn't.

And there's nothing about the RX-8 that even begins to approach the NSX's significance, nor is it part of a well-regarded class like the FD.


....I mean, exactly. When was the last time you saw an NA Miata fetching an extra zero at resale?


:icon_tup:

When I was shopping for my 8, an '06-'11 Civic Si was tied with a 128i for second choice.

I will say this: the 8 is damn hard to replace. I'm between 135i and Cayman as worthy replacements, based on chasing them on track and talking to owners, but why would I spend that kind of money when I have everything I need, paid off ages ago?

So while it may not be worth much actual money, it's saving me massive amounts in not needing any other car.

Agreed.

135i is a lot faster and nicer but will never feel as alive as the 8, and engine-wise I'm not sure it's any cheaper/easier to own. It's objectively a better car but there's something missing.

If you can afford a Cayman and don't need back seats, there's zero argument for an RX-8. But there aren't a lot of cars like that unless you're willing to spend a lot more money.

So many "sports cars" drive like crap compared to the RX-8.

But when you put the historical significance aside, there aren't very much going for them, and hard to justify the kind of price they fetch nowadays.

Definitely.

There were some other contenders at the time, but all were crossed off for one reason or another:

Muscles/Ponies: Could only afford the used V6 ones up front, which are generally considered kinda lame. Used V8 ones are either balls expensive, or way too old.

S2000/Miata: No back seats.

Civic Si: Couldn't find any newer Coupes around me at the time(I don't like the look of the Sedan and don't really need 4 doors), and plus I don't really want to be bunched into the boy racer crowd.

8th Gen Accord Coupe V6 6-speed: Couldn't find one that's not overpriced at the time, and honestly, a bit too big to maneuver around sometimes.

And while theoretically, I could have kept my crappy Corolla 5-speed beater and get an S2k/Miata, I don't have the parking space for them, and insurance in BC is already fooked up as it is. The POS Corolla cost me more than a grand to insure annually(which is more than the car is freakin' worth).

So all in all, I am happy with it other than the gas mileage, but heh, nothing is perfect and I can live with it. They say you bought the right car when you keep looking at it as you walk away from it after you park it, and this is exactly what I do.

I'm on my 3rd RX-8 now and still love the car. It's under powered and a little quirky. I've owned many of the car mentioned including 135i m-sport, a miata and a FD in the passed few years but still have a RX-8 and that says something. I'll probably keep the 8 for a long while as a "summer car" as it's pretty well worth nothing and to replace it with something as fun would just cost to much. Also there's nothing out there on the market that even appeals to me at the moment that has not risen to insane prices. At my age I don't want another project car or fix ur upper, and the 8 is still pretty comfortable and reliable, even on long trip. That said who cares what there worth and what they may be worth in the future. Have fun and drive the shit out of it.

WE old Farts are still here. My 8 is still My 8.. :) Still loving it.. Not so Happy with the Way Mazda has left us out in the Cold. But Still loving MY Rx8.