From R&D
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From: Viva Las Vegas!
From R&D (NOW FROM PR)
I talked with the Director of R&D at Mazda about dynoing the RX-8 on a chassis dyno. He said don't do it until well after 1000-2000 miles have been put on the car, and the engine brakes in. . . "Said" is even the wrong word, he "implored" me to brake it in first...
So, get out and brake those engines in, and then retest them at, say, 5000 miles.
-----
8/22/2003
Official HP Revision: See http://rotarynews.com/view.php?id=206
So, get out and brake those engines in, and then retest them at, say, 5000 miles.
-----
8/22/2003
Official HP Revision: See http://rotarynews.com/view.php?id=206
Last edited by rotarynews.com; Aug 22, 2003 at 05:04 PM.
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Re: From R&D
Originally posted by rotarynews.com
I talked with Kelvin Hirashi, Director of R&D at Mazda about dynoing the RX-8 on a chassis dyno. He said don't do it until well after 1000-2000 miles have been put on the car, and the engine brakes in. . . "Said" is even the wrong word, he "implored" me to brake it in first...
So, get out and brake those engines in, and then retest them at, say, 5000 miles.
I talked with Kelvin Hirashi, Director of R&D at Mazda about dynoing the RX-8 on a chassis dyno. He said don't do it until well after 1000-2000 miles have been put on the car, and the engine brakes in. . . "Said" is even the wrong word, he "implored" me to brake it in first...
So, get out and brake those engines in, and then retest them at, say, 5000 miles.
Any info on the suspected XX,XXX miles ECU fuel mapping switch?
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From: Viva Las Vegas!
There may be a number of things that could account for the lower numbers.. These are some thoughts:
1. Did you hookup a wide band O2 sensor, and mionitor the A/F. It may be running rich to protect the engine durring break in
2. The tests have all been under warm/hot conditions. The "correction" might not be enough for a rotary.
3. The engines still may be tight and need to be broken in.
A little waiting and I should have more answers.
1. Did you hookup a wide band O2 sensor, and mionitor the A/F. It may be running rich to protect the engine durring break in
2. The tests have all been under warm/hot conditions. The "correction" might not be enough for a rotary.
3. The engines still may be tight and need to be broken in.
A little waiting and I should have more answers.
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This is definitely a step in the right direction.
Will await more detailed info from Mazda on this. Would really like to believe that their credibility is not at issue here...
Thank you rotarynews.com
Kind regards,
LK
Will await more detailed info from Mazda on this. Would really like to believe that their credibility is not at issue here...
Thank you rotarynews.com
Kind regards,
LK
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From: Virginia
Thank you, rotarynews!
I'm eagerly awaiting a definitive answer to this issue. Getting confirmation that this power loss is not a sign of a defective engine is pretty important to my decision whether or not to pursue getting the RX-8. I won't do anything until I find out the answer.
I'm eagerly awaiting a definitive answer to this issue. Getting confirmation that this power loss is not a sign of a defective engine is pretty important to my decision whether or not to pursue getting the RX-8. I won't do anything until I find out the answer.
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RotaryNews.Com.. working on info.
Guys:
Dan and I have been working on this since it first broke. We plan on getting the RN.com RX-8 on the dyno after a decent break in period. We want to give Mazda the benefit of the doubt here. Both of us drove PRODUCTION cars that actually felt faster and stronger then the PRE-PRODUCTION models, so we know the cars have the power.
In the background, I've been talking to folks and trying to get some valid information for you all. We know of a few other 8s that have been dynoed with similar results. Please look for an upcoming story on this at RotaryNews.Com very soon!!
Guys remember that Mazda can and probably will NOT comment on this publicly, until they have all of the facts and can present them in a way that will be satisfactory to the consumer and their own marketing and legal departments. I'm sure that any OFFICIAL Mazda comment, be it positive or negative on this issue, will be well thought out and forthcoming. Unfortunately, this is one of the issues we face living in such a litigious society. This of course is NOT to imply that anything is wrong with the RX-8.
The statements that were made to Dan by Kelvin, were directly in regards to the RN.com RX-8 being dynoed, but should be followed as a recommendation to all thinking about it. Nothing official should be read into Kelvin's statements to RN.com on this issue.
We'll get to the buttom of this and we thank all of the folks who to date have contributed their dyno sheets and commentary.
-Bern
Dan and I have been working on this since it first broke. We plan on getting the RN.com RX-8 on the dyno after a decent break in period. We want to give Mazda the benefit of the doubt here. Both of us drove PRODUCTION cars that actually felt faster and stronger then the PRE-PRODUCTION models, so we know the cars have the power.
In the background, I've been talking to folks and trying to get some valid information for you all. We know of a few other 8s that have been dynoed with similar results. Please look for an upcoming story on this at RotaryNews.Com very soon!!
Guys remember that Mazda can and probably will NOT comment on this publicly, until they have all of the facts and can present them in a way that will be satisfactory to the consumer and their own marketing and legal departments. I'm sure that any OFFICIAL Mazda comment, be it positive or negative on this issue, will be well thought out and forthcoming. Unfortunately, this is one of the issues we face living in such a litigious society. This of course is NOT to imply that anything is wrong with the RX-8.
The statements that were made to Dan by Kelvin, were directly in regards to the RN.com RX-8 being dynoed, but should be followed as a recommendation to all thinking about it. Nothing official should be read into Kelvin's statements to RN.com on this issue.
We'll get to the buttom of this and we thank all of the folks who to date have contributed their dyno sheets and commentary.
-Bern
Last edited by bern; Aug 2, 2003 at 03:49 AM.
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From: VA
re
Regarding Dyno, found this little interest read on page 64 of SCC, Sept '03 issue. They were trying to Dyno their test cars: EVO, Audi S4, M3, and 911 4S.
THE DYNO: What Happened?
Dyno testing all-wheel-drive cars isn't easy. Hell, for that matter, dyno testing an M3 isn't easy. We ran into numerous problems during the course of this test, which prevented our usual dyno numbers from being included in the final results.
First, our attempts to dyno the 911 resulted in a very angry viscous coupling. The front and rear roller on HKS' all-wheel-drive Dynojet are different sizes and weights, which forced the Porsche's viscous coupling to work overtime trying to equalizing the speed difference between the front and rear wheels. We gave up when the 911 began to protest on the first pull.
The M3, despite being two-wheel-drive, is also remarkably dyno proof. Its eletro-trickery requires the front and rear wheels to be moving at the same speed or it won't allow maximum engine speed. The engine simmply stops revving at 6500 rpm on the dyno. The problem persisted even with the wheel speed sensors disabled.
With half the field unable to complete the dyno test, we scrapped the idea altogether.
Dyno testing all-wheel-drive cars isn't easy. Hell, for that matter, dyno testing an M3 isn't easy. We ran into numerous problems during the course of this test, which prevented our usual dyno numbers from being included in the final results.
First, our attempts to dyno the 911 resulted in a very angry viscous coupling. The front and rear roller on HKS' all-wheel-drive Dynojet are different sizes and weights, which forced the Porsche's viscous coupling to work overtime trying to equalizing the speed difference between the front and rear wheels. We gave up when the 911 began to protest on the first pull.
The M3, despite being two-wheel-drive, is also remarkably dyno proof. Its eletro-trickery requires the front and rear wheels to be moving at the same speed or it won't allow maximum engine speed. The engine simmply stops revving at 6500 rpm on the dyno. The problem persisted even with the wheel speed sensors disabled.
With half the field unable to complete the dyno test, we scrapped the idea altogether.
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From: Colorado
Looking at the dyno plots, it certainly appears that the tertiary ports are opening just fine. I suppose it's possible that we're seeing the ECU cause the drop at port opening and that it's really not, but I doubt it. This appears different.
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Dont believe everything you read, I have personally seen several E46 M3's dyno succesfully on a dynojet.
BTW, a broken in car might dyno 5-8hp more to the wheels than a car with 200-600 miles on the odo. but not a lot more. Ussually they dyno within 3hp.
BTW, a broken in car might dyno 5-8hp more to the wheels than a car with 200-600 miles on the odo. but not a lot more. Ussually they dyno within 3hp.
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From: Houston
Re: RotaryNews.Com.. working on info.
Originally posted by bern
Guys:
...
Guys remember that Mazda can and probably will NOT comment on this publicly, until they have all of the facts and can present them in a way that will be satisfactory to the consumer and their own marketing and legal departments. I'm sure that any OFFICIAL Mazda comment, be it positive or negative on this issue, will be well thought out and forthcoming. Unfortunately, this is one of the issues we face living in such a litigious society. This of course is NOT to imply that anything is wrong with the RX-8.
...
-Bern
Guys:
...
Guys remember that Mazda can and probably will NOT comment on this publicly, until they have all of the facts and can present them in a way that will be satisfactory to the consumer and their own marketing and legal departments. I'm sure that any OFFICIAL Mazda comment, be it positive or negative on this issue, will be well thought out and forthcoming. Unfortunately, this is one of the issues we face living in such a litigious society. This of course is NOT to imply that anything is wrong with the RX-8.
...
-Bern
Yes they can comment very quickly if they know what is going on. It doesn't take a team of lawyers to tell the RX-8 customers, "When the car hits 4K miles the aggressive fuel maps kick in and the car will then be at full power."
IMO, they only need precisely written legalese when they have a problem or don't know what's going on.
-Mr. Wigggles
Last edited by MrWigggles; Aug 4, 2003 at 07:59 PM.
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From: Houston
Re: Question
Originally posted by Urchin
Is there a loss in horsepower across the rpm range or only at peak (8,500 rpm)? If it is only at peak, sounds like ports still not opening.
Is there a loss in horsepower across the rpm range or only at peak (8,500 rpm)? If it is only at peak, sounds like ports still not opening.
-Mr. Wigggles
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Yes they can comment very quickly if they know what is going on. It doesn't take a team of lawyers to tell the RX-8 customers, "When the car hits 4000K miles the aggressive fuel maps kick in and the car will then be at full power."
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I've made the same point several times as well:
If things are working as designed then we should be hearing from Mazda this week or next. All they have to say is "we currently believe the vehicle and engine are working as designed, more details will follow in a few weeks'. They don't have to say anything about possible ECU remapping (automatically or via dealership) or that the car might have 30% transmission losses instead of 17% etc. They don't have to tell the public (us) this either, just notify the dealers that if anyone asks about HP issues then this is the message to give them for now. My dealer has heard nothing about this yet.
The longer it takes Mazda to make any kind of announcement the more likely it is that there is a real problem and they are scrambling to research it and getting lawyers involved for wording.
If things are working as designed then we should be hearing from Mazda this week or next. All they have to say is "we currently believe the vehicle and engine are working as designed, more details will follow in a few weeks'. They don't have to say anything about possible ECU remapping (automatically or via dealership) or that the car might have 30% transmission losses instead of 17% etc. They don't have to tell the public (us) this either, just notify the dealers that if anyone asks about HP issues then this is the message to give them for now. My dealer has heard nothing about this yet.
The longer it takes Mazda to make any kind of announcement the more likely it is that there is a real problem and they are scrambling to research it and getting lawyers involved for wording.
btw....has anyone else noticed that they took the "Specifications" tab off the main USA RX-8 page (http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/rx8/rx8_main_flash.jsp) Are they trying to avoid something?
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From: Cambridge - UK
Originally posted by takahashi j
btw....has anyone else noticed that they took the "Specifications" tab off the main USA RX-8 page (http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/rx8/rx8_main_flash.jsp) Are they trying to avoid something?
btw....has anyone else noticed that they took the "Specifications" tab off the main USA RX-8 page (http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/rx8/rx8_main_flash.jsp) Are they trying to avoid something?
247 hp 1.3-liter RENESIS 2-rotor, 6-intake-port, rotary engine
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From: The Big Apple
Originally posted by takahashi j
btw....has anyone else noticed that they took the "Specifications" tab off the main USA RX-8 page (http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/rx8/rx8_main_flash.jsp) Are they trying to avoid something?
btw....has anyone else noticed that they took the "Specifications" tab off the main USA RX-8 page (http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/rx8/rx8_main_flash.jsp) Are they trying to avoid something?
You need to go through the Build and Buy and then download the specs as a PDF file. Why they did it that way? WHo knows.
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From: St Charles, MO
In the performance section, it also still says "...with 247 horsepower @ 8500 rpm..."
My guess is that they are just updating the website, but I'm sure this will just feed the "controversy" frenzy.
My guess is that they are just updating the website, but I'm sure this will just feed the "controversy" frenzy.
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Answers are coming soon... But I think in the other thread, Paul Yaw has hit upon the answer: AF Ratio being richened by the ECU.
Speculation: The ECU in the 8 is very high tech, but was not designed with chassis dynos on the mind... so the shock, load, and heat of the dyno run makes the ECU dump fuel into the engine to protect it, there by decreasing the horsepower and torque.
Here is my challenge to youse guys:
Dyno with
1. A wide band O2 Sensor
2. A Mazda Dignosis machine and monitor, in real time, the sensors (air temp, AF ratio, etc)
3. A cooler facility
4. The report back on the results before Mazda has a chance to :D
-----------------
takahashi: Mazda moved the specs onto the "normal" car section http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...ehicleCode=RX8
Speculation: The ECU in the 8 is very high tech, but was not designed with chassis dynos on the mind... so the shock, load, and heat of the dyno run makes the ECU dump fuel into the engine to protect it, there by decreasing the horsepower and torque.
Here is my challenge to youse guys:
Dyno with
1. A wide band O2 Sensor
2. A Mazda Dignosis machine and monitor, in real time, the sensors (air temp, AF ratio, etc)
3. A cooler facility
4. The report back on the results before Mazda has a chance to :D
-----------------
takahashi: Mazda moved the specs onto the "normal" car section http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...ehicleCode=RX8
Originally posted by rotarynews.com
Answers are coming soon... But I think in the other thread, Paul Yaw has hit upon the answer: AF Ratio being richened by the ECU.
Speculation: The ECU in the 8 is very high tech, but was not designed with chassis dynos on the mind... so the shock, load, and heat of the dyno run makes the ECU dump fuel into the engine to protect it, there by decreasing the horsepower and torque.
Answers are coming soon... But I think in the other thread, Paul Yaw has hit upon the answer: AF Ratio being richened by the ECU.
Speculation: The ECU in the 8 is very high tech, but was not designed with chassis dynos on the mind... so the shock, load, and heat of the dyno run makes the ECU dump fuel into the engine to protect it, there by decreasing the horsepower and torque.
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From: Plainfield, ILL
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/disp...ehicleCode=RX8
The specs seem easy enough to reach from the main page. It took me 3 clicks to get to that page.
The specs seem easy enough to reach from the main page. It took me 3 clicks to get to that page.
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From: Torrance, CA
Free dyno offer
For owners residing in Southern California, I am willing to provide a free dyno session to generate some more data on this topic.
We use a Dynapack chassis dyno, which is a bit different in that we remove the drive wheels and attach the dyno directly. This allows us to control load more precisely. The readings are usually somewhat higher than on a Dynojet (about 10-12 hp) because the load of the wheels isn't there.
The dyno also datalogs a MoTeC wideband O2 sensor, manifold pressure, etc. Additionally, we use a OBDII scantool to monitor intake and coolant temps to ensure consistency and real world relevancy.
We have dyno results from other cars in the same power range (in particular, many Honda S2000s which have similar driveline, power curve and torque delivery characteristics).
If a person (singular, can't be doing too many free service) would like to try his/her broken in car on the dyno, please feel free to contact me.
Shawn Church
Church Automotive Testing
20950 S. Normandie Ave.
Suite K
Torrance, CA 90502
310-787-7123
spchurch@earthlink.net
We use a Dynapack chassis dyno, which is a bit different in that we remove the drive wheels and attach the dyno directly. This allows us to control load more precisely. The readings are usually somewhat higher than on a Dynojet (about 10-12 hp) because the load of the wheels isn't there.
The dyno also datalogs a MoTeC wideband O2 sensor, manifold pressure, etc. Additionally, we use a OBDII scantool to monitor intake and coolant temps to ensure consistency and real world relevancy.
We have dyno results from other cars in the same power range (in particular, many Honda S2000s which have similar driveline, power curve and torque delivery characteristics).
If a person (singular, can't be doing too many free service) would like to try his/her broken in car on the dyno, please feel free to contact me.
Shawn Church
Church Automotive Testing
20950 S. Normandie Ave.
Suite K
Torrance, CA 90502
310-787-7123
spchurch@earthlink.net
Is this title ok?
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Posts: 300
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From: El Monte, CA
Re: Free dyno offer
Originally posted by ChurchAutoTest
For owners residing in Southern California, I am willing to provide a free dyno session to generate some more data on this topic.
. . .
If a person (singular, can't be doing too many free service) would like to try his/her broken in car on the dyno, please feel free to contact me.
. . .
spchurch@earthlink.net
For owners residing in Southern California, I am willing to provide a free dyno session to generate some more data on this topic.
. . .
If a person (singular, can't be doing too many free service) would like to try his/her broken in car on the dyno, please feel free to contact me.
. . .
spchurch@earthlink.net
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From: Torrance, CA
I'm willing to entertain other scenarios. 
SC
p.s. - someone with about 2000 miles will be coming by in the next week or so. We'll have to see about higher mileage down the road.
SC
p.s. - someone with about 2000 miles will be coming by in the next week or so. We'll have to see about higher mileage down the road.
Last edited by ChurchAutoTest; Aug 4, 2003 at 05:45 PM.
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Re: Re: RotaryNews.Com.. working on info.
Originally posted by MrWigggles
Bern, thanks for the update.
Yes they can comment very quickly if they know what is going on. It doesn't take a team of lawyers to tell the RX-8 customers, "When the car hits 4000K miles the aggressive fuel maps kick in and the car will then be at full power."
IMO, they only need precisely written legalese when they have a problem or don't know what's going on.
-Mr. Wigggles
Bern, thanks for the update.
Yes they can comment very quickly if they know what is going on. It doesn't take a team of lawyers to tell the RX-8 customers, "When the car hits 4000K miles the aggressive fuel maps kick in and the car will then be at full power."
IMO, they only need precisely written legalese when they have a problem or don't know what's going on.
-Mr. Wigggles
".... their own marketing-PR and/or legal departments....."
I didn't mean to imply that the legal department was clearing anything.. on the other hand, marketing and PR might want to handle this situation delicately, even if it is just an ECU map thing... They may need to figure out how to desiminate the info to both consumers and dealers... and answer questions as to why this is happening, and why no one told anyone about it. Remember that dealers are Mazda customers too...
I was just saying that unfortunately, major corporations now-a-days just have to be very careful on any point... there is always one or two people who will have major issues with things, no matter what happens or is said..
Again I'm not implying that any of this is going on, it's just my own personal hunch.
-Bern
Row faster, I hear banjos
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From: Charlottesville, VA
Mazda's Official Reply To The Horsepower Issue!!!
Around the middle of last week, I sent Mazda the following message:
"I'm a sportscar enthusiast who currently owns a 2000 SVT
Lightning and just came back from attending the MazdaRevitup stage 14 event in DC. While at the event, my wife and I got the chance to check out the all new RX-8 and I plan on purchasing one in the coming months.
However, I have a concern which I first saw addressed by Sports Compact Car in their May 2003 issue - the 6spd manual RX-8s not producing their advertised 247hp. Several new owners on the website www.rx8forum.com are also experiencing low dyno numbers ranging from 174-184hp for their 6spd manual cars.
Now I'm not looking for the standard, blow-me-off "It makes
247hp at the flywheel" type of answer, as I know enough about cars to not accept a 25.6% drivetrain loss in a car built after 1980 w/ a 6spd shifter and a carbon fiber driveshaft. You could earn the respect of a potential valued customer with your response."
Mazda e-mailed me back with the following response this evening:
"Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.
In regards to your question, Mazda is aware of the reports showing that the 2004 RX-8 has lower horsepower than advertised. Currently Mazda is looking into these reports. Until further research is done on this matter, Mazda is not able to comment on these reports. Please know your comments have been documented and are continuously reviewed by the Product Planning Department in an effort to provide only the most
exciting vehicles.
I am pleased to hear of your enthusiasm for the 2004 RX-8! We would love to have you and your wife as part of the Mazda family!
Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to assist you. If for any reason this response has not completely
satisfied you, please feel free to reply to this message. You may also contact our Customer Assistance Center toll-free at 1-800-222-5500.
Sincerely,
Heather Drake
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business"
Well Mazda is aware of the problem at this time and we should all be hearing something from them officially in the coming months. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a "quick fix" like an update to the ECU (a couple members mentioned that the cars are shipped from Japan without being CA emissions compliant, but at the port technicians put in a US spec ECU).
"I'm a sportscar enthusiast who currently owns a 2000 SVT
Lightning and just came back from attending the MazdaRevitup stage 14 event in DC. While at the event, my wife and I got the chance to check out the all new RX-8 and I plan on purchasing one in the coming months.
However, I have a concern which I first saw addressed by Sports Compact Car in their May 2003 issue - the 6spd manual RX-8s not producing their advertised 247hp. Several new owners on the website www.rx8forum.com are also experiencing low dyno numbers ranging from 174-184hp for their 6spd manual cars.
Now I'm not looking for the standard, blow-me-off "It makes
247hp at the flywheel" type of answer, as I know enough about cars to not accept a 25.6% drivetrain loss in a car built after 1980 w/ a 6spd shifter and a carbon fiber driveshaft. You could earn the respect of a potential valued customer with your response."
Mazda e-mailed me back with the following response this evening:
"Thank you for contacting Mazda North American Operations. I appreciate the opportunity to respond to you.
In regards to your question, Mazda is aware of the reports showing that the 2004 RX-8 has lower horsepower than advertised. Currently Mazda is looking into these reports. Until further research is done on this matter, Mazda is not able to comment on these reports. Please know your comments have been documented and are continuously reviewed by the Product Planning Department in an effort to provide only the most
exciting vehicles.
I am pleased to hear of your enthusiasm for the 2004 RX-8! We would love to have you and your wife as part of the Mazda family!
Again, thank you for contacting Mazda. It has been my pleasure to assist you. If for any reason this response has not completely
satisfied you, please feel free to reply to this message. You may also contact our Customer Assistance Center toll-free at 1-800-222-5500.
Sincerely,
Heather Drake
Specialist, Customer Assistance E-Business"
Well Mazda is aware of the problem at this time and we should all be hearing something from them officially in the coming months. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a "quick fix" like an update to the ECU (a couple members mentioned that the cars are shipped from Japan without being CA emissions compliant, but at the port technicians put in a US spec ECU).
Shawn-
Please make sure to post the results of your test on the RX-8 you have coming in, either here or on TOV (vtec.net for all you Honda haters).
For those of you who don't know, Shawn Church is about one of the smartest guys you'll ever meet---on the net or in person. He knows more about automotive engineering than most people. I know he'll make sure that the RX-8 is tested fairly and that all variables are measured and taken into consideration.
Please make sure to post the results of your test on the RX-8 you have coming in, either here or on TOV (vtec.net for all you Honda haters).
For those of you who don't know, Shawn Church is about one of the smartest guys you'll ever meet---on the net or in person. He knows more about automotive engineering than most people. I know he'll make sure that the RX-8 is tested fairly and that all variables are measured and taken into consideration.
I REALLY LOVE THIS CAR!
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From: SE Coast
Should be in Media but...
The new "Wired" has a nice two page spread on the 8 and it still says 247hp. I don't think thye would keep advertising it if it wasn't true particluarly given the Miata fiasco.
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From: Denver, CO, USA
Originally posted by RodsterinFL
You don't suppose that the engines are really all 4 port or something instead of 6 port do you?
You don't suppose that the engines are really all 4 port or something instead of 6 port do you?
Originally posted by TybeeRX-8
The new "Wired" has a nice two page spread on the 8 and it still says 247hp.
The new "Wired" has a nice two page spread on the 8 and it still says 247hp.
---jps
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From: Torrance, CA
Will do. If time allows, we'll do a quick trip around the block and note normal operating temperatures (intake and coolant) and try and duplicate those as closely as possible on the dyno. I'll also provide comparison plots with other RWD cars of similar rated power levels (Honda S2000, Nissan 350Z, etc.)
And thanks for the kind words
SC
And thanks for the kind words
SC
Originally posted by rxtreme
Shawn-
Please make sure to post the results of your test on the RX-8 you have coming in, either here or on TOV (vtec.net for all you Honda haters).
Shawn-
Please make sure to post the results of your test on the RX-8 you have coming in, either here or on TOV (vtec.net for all you Honda haters).
no pistons!
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 434
Likes: 0
From: ORANGE COUNTY, CA
does anyone know the model, brand, and type of dynamometer used in the results that show lack of power? has anyone looked into any dyno graphs made by Japanese owners/tuners? remember they are rated in PS - which is 1.25 hp. If someone can find a Japanese dyno graph, we can narrow it down to just a US Spec problem, most likely the ecu which is different in comparison to the JDM Spec.