626joe

I am considering buying an 8, but can't afford anything but the base 6 speed manual. Can anyone who has this model comment on whether the car fishtails a lot without the "Dynamic Stability Control"? My wife has never driven a rear-wheel-drive car and I'm afraid she might freak out if this car gets sideways too easily.

raadracer

The relationship of "sideways" is directly proportional to the angle of the right foot on the gas pedal!

626joe

Is it really that easy to get the back end around? Do you think DSC is a must-have option?

Ajax

I drive with it off most of the time and hardly ever kick the back end out unless I try to.

moRotorMotor

lol Unless your wife only knows two positions of the gas pedal (1. fully depressed 2. full throttle) than no, you don't have to worry. Just drive like normal and nothing will go out of control. You do have to take it easy when it is raining and you make a turn from a stopped position. Blipping the throttle while making a turn at an intersection will break the traction of the tires on a wet road. Nothing that the normal Joe can't handle though.

Xyntax

I only fishtailed it once unintentionally. And then once intentionally. Both times happened on wet roads and it was easy for me to compensate for the short drift. I have never fishtailed on dry road though no matter how I push it. I guess I know my car's tolerance now. Just remember that RWD sports cars back then didn't have these TCS and DSC installed. It's a must-have if you're going to travel to wet roads or if you know you are not a safe driver.

I wouldn't trust my 8 to travel on snow even with snow chains on.

Remember, this is my 2nd car, first M/T, first RWD, first sports car, and I've never had huge problems so far.

ps. If it is for your wife's daily commute, why not consider the Automatic? It is actually cheaper than the M/T (unlike most car setups). In the M/T, jerking the 8 due to improper shifting will result in tires chirping. And if this happens on wet roads, it could fishtail your 8 even at <20mph. That's what happened to me on my first week with this car.

Chief

The car handles like a dream, even without DSC. I have had no problems

psionic1

I have only fishtailed once, and that was intentionally done from a full stop, clutch dump, into a 90 degree turn. It was fun. The point being though, that I had to do it on purpose.

I have driven many winding roads at high speeds and not fishtailed once.

The car will do it if you want it to, but I don't think that this car will do it easily, during normal driving.

Just be aware of the car's characteristics under all conditions.

The Loots

Don't sweat it! Get the car and don't worry. I bought the same thing ... MT and no options. The rear will stay where you keep it.
Now GO get it and ENJOY !!

Deslock

This video shows DSC's value (especially in the rain). The runs are as follows (on a wet road at speed 110km/h 25 m radius left):
1. Normal RX-8 with DSC ON
2. Normal RX-8 with DSC OFF
3. Normal RX-8 with DSC TOTALLY OFF (equivalent to a base 6-speed)
4. MazdaSpeed RX-8 A Spec with DSC TOTALLY OFF

Personally, I bought the base model because [1] while DSC can help you recover if you screw up (especially in the rain), you can still crash any car if you drive beyond its or your limits, [2] I wanted to spend <$25k, and [3] I like to have a little fun and would end up turning DSC off most of the time anyway. The car is very neutral and easy to straighten out, but I drive conservatively on wet roads... well, beyond occassionally drifting at low speed from a stop (when visibility is good, no one is around, and I have lots of room, obviously).

My wife had no experience with RWD cars but she's comfortable driving the RX-8. Just caution your wife that a lightweight RWD car behaves differently on wet roads and if possible take her out in an empty parking lot and demonstrate that.

BasenjiGuy

To begin with, the car is balanced, both in weight distribution, and in suspension tuning. The car is fundamentally stable. Half of the car's weight is on the driven rear wheels, and it doesn't have a ton of torque at low revs, so it's not some uncontrollable beast.

A driver will have to aggressively launch from a stop, power thru, and or slam on the brakes in a turn to initiate oversteer.

Unless you are trying, or driving in freezing precipitation, you are not going to lose the rear end of the car unexpectantly.

The car is quite benign in normal driving, and quite forgiving as the driving becomes more aggressive. You might want to educate your wife and/or yourself with the car by finding a big empty parking lot or a wide open dirt road where you can explore power oversteer, and get used to it. And also get the car going into a curve and brake strongly to find how much the rear end wants to come around, and to what degree at what speed.


That being said, the car's rear suspension has toe-correcting geometry that can help save you if you overcook it and get close to spinning- i.e., if you slam the brakes on in a corner, the car can, to a degree, catch the spin before it occurs. BUT, only to a degree. You need to know where that limit is.

You'll also want to become comfortable with countersteering in these situations - that is, steering the front tires towards the outside of the turn, in order to control the car's rotation, recover from an impending spin, etc, which is not instinctive for many people. That's part of being a safe driver, and an enthusiast.

A big part of real world performance driving is having the skill to make mid-curve adjustments with the throttle, brakes, and steering. A modern RWD car, when driving aggressively, is steered with the throttle and brakes in addition to the steering wheel. Putt-putting around town, it's pretty much like any other car.

As I advise everyone, if you want to feel fully comfortable with the car, find a safe place to do so. You'll build a comfort level with the car's handling that will serve you well; you'll know what the car wants to do in certain situations and it won't suprise you.

What I've found with the RX-8 is that it will bring it's tail waaaay further out than my other RWD cars did. And, the 8 kind of swings its tail way out and then takes a set, which is a little disconcerting at first because the tail goes so far out before settling in. If you're unfamiliar with this you wonder if the tail is ever going to stop coming around.

But, it does, very reliably and predictably. When this first happened to me I thought the tires were underinflated and the sidewalls were rolling over. Again, this is at very high G loads at the limit of adhesion. You'll never get in this situation in normal everyday Point A to Point B driving.


One of the "ironies" of the base model is that without DSC and traction control the car is at it most fundamentally enjoyable state. The luxury that the drivers of the higher option packaged models have is that they can turn off their stability controls when they want to - but the controls default to always on.

Personally, what I would like most is to have a stability system that is normally off unless I switch it on, or the temps are down near the freezing mark and then it would automatically turn on.

BasenjiGuy

BTW, the video is an interesting demonstration not only of DSC, but that you need to develop your own mental DSC. The driver approached the curve at too great of a speed given the conditions. Real world, that was irresponsible. Additionally, the driver made no attempt to brake before entry into the corner nor did he apply opposite lock was the skid was initiated. In other words, he was driving too fast, didn't slow down for the curve, and didn't try to save himself. He didn't use his own internal DSC. Duh, it's a demonstration the the DSC technology.

I know, I'll never have as much fast acting ability as a computer DSC does, but, I'm not going to get myself in a situation where I need the car's DSC. Not if I can help it. Sure, if I'd had another $1k to spend I would have bought an 8 with the Sport Package and it's DSC. But, I'm quite happy with my purchase.

Seenitall

Not to worry. Unless your wife is a berserker, she will do just FINE. My wife drives yhe 8 all the time . It doent have DSC, and she cant tell the diif between the 8 and the BMW that has DSC

626joe

Thanks, for all of your great responses. This is the greatest forum with the most knowledgeable people.

Considering I like the clean look of the 8 without the ground effects, most people don't use the DSC, the cloth seats have more grip than the leather ones, no one seems to be happy with the price they paid for the Bose stereo, the navigation system is only so-so, and the sunroof losses an inch or so of headroom... I guess the base 6 speed is the one for me!

Now all I have to do is pay off the MPV and I'm ready for my new car.

Seenitall

You WILL enjoy-we promise:D :D

Rupes

I got the base model too, DSC is not an option on most cars, so its not a big deal to not get it on this car. I drive the car like a bat out of hell and have a very hard time getting it to break loose unless im accelerating out of a turn.

-Rupes

BasenjiGuy

All the option packages are a good value - I have to say the Sport is a superb value for roughly $800 (invoice cost). Above Sport, it's just how much you want to spend and whether or not things like the sunroof, leather, big stereo, heated seats, nav and what not are worth it to you.

Jeffjett

I agree with your choices, and logic. IMO, I did not want all the extra add-ons, or the weight. The base model is all I could have asked for and more. Now sell that POS van and buy your 8 immediately, before they are all gone.

626joe

As you can see by my user name, I'm driving a 5 spd V6 626. It is a great car, but I'm coming up on 10 years on it. I also love that MPV and would think of any other way to haul around the wife and 3 kids.

You know what really pisses me off ? The European versions of this car can disable the passenger side air bag, yet Mazda does not even offer this as an option in this country. My oldest son will not be able ride in the front until he's 12, six years from now.

The practicality of this car would be increased by 25 percent if they had an air bag that could turn off. As it is, only 2 of the 3 can go along for the ride.

Atacdad

Heck..enough of a blip will break them free on dry pavement too (but you've got to be trying!)

As long as your wife's tendency to get on the power is when she's generally pointing forward, she'll have no problems.

That said, I bought mine with the sport package just to get the DSC, so that I had an extra safety margin in the wet and when I might be drivng agressively in the winding corners.

Deslock

I read that some S2000 owners have installed a side-airbag kill switch. I assume that's also possible with the 8.