carcrazy95

Reading the various threads on premature 'engine failures', I'm wondering if there is a correlation between early engine death and poor maintenance (and long life with good care), more so than would be seen with "conventional" engines.

By definition, if you're here on this forum, then you're into cars, and almost certainly give your car much higher than average care. Gearheads are into cars, we like to drive them and know how to take care of them.

But that's not most of the population. Most people could care less about changing their oil or doing anything else to take care of their car. So many people I know do nothing but put gas in their car - ever (my mother in law was shocked when her Chrysler's engine blew at 24,000 miles; when I asked her how often she changed the oil, she was incredulous, and honestly surprised and said "You mean you have to change the oil in the engine?!?"). My old secretary got her first oil change on her Toyota at 30,000 miles - after I had a seizure when she told me she had never had it changed (I wouldn't want to buy that car, it was a miracle it was still running).

The rotary is more sensitive to and needing of admittedly simple maintenance than the typical piston engine. I'm thinking mostly of the need to periodically check and add oil. Most of the (non-car) people I know have literally never checked their oil in their cars, and don't even know how to do it. A Toyota might go (for a while....) without ever checking the oil and changing it every 10k miles, but, not a Wankel.

I wonder if there is a correlation with rotary engines failing in the hands of people who treat them "like any other Japanese car", never check the oil, and try to drive them for many thousands of miles between oil changes - which in a rotary will result in a dry sump and a fried engine. I'm sure there are people here that have fastiduously cared for their cars and still had engines die, but I'm curious if anyone thinks there is a particularly strong relationship between more "casual" treatment of this particular engine and early rotary death? The corallary, I wonder if those that have the highest (trouble-free) mileage from their engines might be the ones that are also particularly meticulous about checking oil level and other maintenance?

CTrx8

iTrader: (2)

yes and no. i know there are a lot of people that pride themselves on "babying" their cars so they don't rev their engines and in the case of the rotary, is not the greatest thing for the engine. however, that being said, i have seen a few on here who seem to know what they are doing, have done research, maintain properly, and still have engine failure.

but overall, i would agree that if you aren't educated on this car and expect it to be just like a honda accord or toyota camary you will likely find yourself frustrated at the issues. it doesn't take a lot of extra care but especially for those early years, need a little extra TLC.

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

well, I've done bare maintenance on mine and its running okay. I make sure to change my oil religousely at 2500-3000 miles but I dont pre-mix or do anything special.

IMHO part of it is the ingnorance to the importance of redlining. It's incredible how many elderly people are driving AT RX8s, to you honestly think they're redlining their car once a day, or even once a week?

My dad til this day tries to convince me that redlining is bad and I should be shifting at 2K, like most people, he doesnt understand the renesis engine.

Shinka_MJR

to answer this simply: yes! i'll bet that minimum 90% of the engine failure cases are due to poor/improper maintenance.

XAreXAteX

I wouldn't go that far. I would say its more of a 60% bad maintenance, 40% the car itself. Engines go on (what we believe to be) well maintained cars pretty often.

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

Whereas proper maintenance won't absolutely guarantee no problems, lack of proper maintenance will almost certainly guarantee problems.

I just did a thorough service at 20k/4 years old. Filters, all fluids, plugs, etc. and it drives like it was brand new. There's allot to be said for maintenance, especially given our somewhat finicky rotaries.

I also drive in a spirited fashion, and use pre-mix and fuel system cleaner on a regular basis. I've had Zero problems with the vehicle.

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

I hate to say it but I really do not believe the MAJORITY is caused by lack of maintenance. Most people who can afford a 30K sports car have enough common sense to change the oil every 3-5K miles.

Im living proof, Ive done nothing but oil changes and tire rotations and my car is running perfectly at 73K miles

Mazda had a recall for 04 engines for a reason, there were engines that were just bad. There's a lot of members here to went above and beyond their recommended maintanence and still needed engines by 50K.

Then there's 04 owners that have had great success such as myself, expo, and the member (forgot the name) who has 170K on his 04.

My thesis is that carbon-lock is the biggest issue. The renesis by design needs to be redlined to blow out the carbon deposits. This is due to the exhaust ports being placed on the side of the chamber rather than the bottom like prevous rotaries. You can thank emissions for that.

Carbon-lock is caused BOTH by the design of the engine + lack of spirited driving.

XAreXAteX

I agree maybe a 60% car and a 40% maintenance would be a better ratio.

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

It sounds tricky to me.. I'm a new car owner, and therefore know little to nothing of maintenance. With so much info flowing out there, I'd imagine it's more driver maintenance than engine (with the newer models anyways), because most people including me would get confused.

"Most people who can afford a 30K sports car have enough common sense to change the oil every 3-5K miles."

Yeah but if they didn't really buy the car themselves (parents), or they bought since they have money and went for the car just on looks...

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

Standard oil change interval on ANY car is 3-5K miles, if you dont have enough common sense to apply that to owning an RX8, you shouldn't have a drivers license becuase you are legally retarded.

There are people that NEGLECT to follow maintanence but still know what theyre supposed to do.

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

Gotcha, misinterpreted neglect with ignorance.

carcrazy95

I wouldn't be too sure of the "most people who can afford a 30K sports car have enough common sense to change the oil every 3-5K miles" part.

I know many people who have high end cars, and have bought and paid for them themselves, but do not maintain them. Whether out of neglect or ignorance, they just don't do it (one of my co-workers bought a new BMW 540 - gave it the first oil change at 20,000 miles). Sometimes, people with money just don't care. Maybe they figure they'll just buy another one, or they'll lease and trade it in after a couple of years, but I haven't seen a high correlation between cost of car and care (the more I've paid for something, the better I look after it - it's my own money, no one is going to buy me one if it dies).

Socket7

Seriously? Kid, the manual tells you when everything needs to be changed right there in the Scheduled maintenance section.

A car is likely the most expensive thing the average american will buy, next to a house. Expending the effort to learn how to take care of it sounds like a cheap investment in time to protect a large investment in capitol.

If your parents are footing the bill, you take it to a mechanic and say "I need a 30 thousand mile service, could you do it for me?"

If you're doing it yourself, you check the net for OEM equivalents and use them, or if you don't mind the effort, look for a superior product (which CAN be confusing and hard).

There is no good excuse for not taking proper care of your car, and you can make taking proper care of your car as hard or as easy as you'd like.


People who are too lazy to maintain a car because "I can afford a new one" are a breed of human I'm ashamed to share genetic material with.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Even if you live healthy, never had junk food, exercise regularly, sleeps at 10 and gets up at 7 everyday, ontime lunch, all Organic food. You might still get cancer and die.

but if you never live healthy, junk food all the way, wtf is exercise, sleeps 3 hours a day sometimes just skip it, eats whenever you like, whatever crap you can and shove it into your mouth. you will die. pretty bad too.

So in the other words, take care of your car doesnt mean your car will live. but if you neglect it , Im sure it will die faster than you think.

Huey52

iTrader: (2)

This is how I responded above: "Whereas proper maintenance won't absolutely guarantee no problems, lack of proper maintenance will almost certainly guarantee problems."

I guess that's the difference between NYC and Boston.

JinDesu

iTrader: (2)

Yes, and as many people in this thread have already said, there are people out there who don't follow the schedule. I certainly will, this is my car and I bought the damn thing. I love cars, and I take care of my things. However, not everyone is like you and I, so that's what this thread is talking about.

And yes, it is a little confusing to maintain this car. I take it to 9k rpms (or at least as high as I can get it on the automatic), I check/fill my engine oil every 2 checkups, and I try to bring my engine temp to middle before I ever shut it off. However, I don't know exactly how much engine oil to put in (took me a few minutes of pour and check) on my first time adding it, and stuff like what engine oil to use can get me many different results searching on this forum.

Speaking for myself, I ask, I check, and then I do. But looking at some other people's experiences, there's obviously people who skip the first two steps.

This analogy, and the statement "Whereas proper maintenance won't absolutely guarantee no problems, lack of proper maintenance will almost certainly guarantee problems." are both extremely good ways of describing it..

New Yorker

I suspect the vast majority of engine replacements were the result of owner neglect on first-year engines running under a not-yet-optimized ECU calibration.

I used to own a Fiat X1/9—a car with a notoriously poor maintenance record—and, like my '05 8, had almost no problems. I believe that, compared to ordinary cars, the 8 simply has a smaller "owner maintenance margin of error".

PSTNLSS

iTrader: (3)

I am no expert but from my experience. The car needs care. Oil changed regularly. Good gas

I mean its all chance with this car.

**knock on wood**

in my almost 2 years i have had no problems with my 2004 i think it was made in august 2003 so its one of the first produced

dos

I have to somewhat disagree that most problems are caused from poor care. I never had a problem with my 04 besides basic warranty work and followed the recommendations from the owners book. One of the problems is that Mazda dealer service network for the most part sucks, each time I would go into the dealer for a oil change, they would tell me a different recommended oil, and didn't even know what pre-mixing was. ECU update and reflashes they would have no clue most of the time. There have been quite a few people that have posted on the forums that had engines with low compression and did everything correct with their car. There is a reason Mazda upped the warranty on the RX-8.

Any car will have problems if proper maintenance is not done.

Shoafb

No.

Razz1

I'll side on the MOP causing 80% or more of the failures.

CyberPitz

That evil MOP. It's too bad Mazda didn't incorperate a SOHM adapter out of the factory....

newguy

Ive always used synthetic at 3000miles and have gotten 200k miles out of 2 talons running 20psi as daily drivers on pump gas with 18 and 20g turbos. I also sold both in fine running shape still pulling strong at 200k for way over bluebook. The Stratus Im commuting with has 150k now (but I did need a new tranny at 140k). The RX8 I bought w/47k miles got dealer oil 5w20 every 3-4000 miles owned by a 30 yr old couple and needed a decarbing and new plugs at 40k, the wife seemed to bring it in most of the time by the reciepts. Ive switched to castrol 5w30 and change it myself and premix. I redline it when driven but dont use it daily and it feels good, no idle dips or hiccups.

amacrx8

Could someone explain to me this:

I often hear that driving the rotary engine hard (revving it high all the time) is better for it than babying it. What is the basis of this? Why is it not true for a piston engine?

ZoomZoomH

iTrader: (1)

personally, i think driving LOTS of highway miles for at least 20-30 minutes a day is key to a healthy wankel, in addition to getting on it hard on a regular basis. city/short distance driving will ruin this engine faster than a piston engine would, imo.