Pinging & 87 Octane
#26
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The only purpose of higher octane gas is to prevent predetonation.
I had a BMW 2002 that ran OK (no pinging, and this was before the days of knock sensors) on 87. But when I turned the key off it would keep on running. If I used mid grade or premium, it would shut down OK.
Ken
#27
Wheels, not rims!!
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Originally Posted by DrDiaboloco
It's like a sports car since Nissan first proclaimed it so, the olde "4DSC"-era Maximas being the first I can recall... The cars actually had stickers on the inside of the rearmost side windows proclaiming they were THE "4DSC". This dates back to the model that was current in the early 90's.
4DSC=4-door sports car, BTW.
4DSC=4-door sports car, BTW.
#28
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LOL Ya well according to all car manufacturers for every car they make:
1.) This car is a sports car made for the family with 4x4 off road capibilities and a class c tow hitch.
2.) It gets the best gas milage in its class.
3.) Recieved the highest government crash ratings in its class.
4.) Prices starting as low as $6500.99 or $10.98 per month!
So ya, the eccoline and the scion are sports cars.
(and dont make fun of the scion xB. I drove it for work and its great, although a bit slow on the getup.. and cheap).
1.) This car is a sports car made for the family with 4x4 off road capibilities and a class c tow hitch.
2.) It gets the best gas milage in its class.
3.) Recieved the highest government crash ratings in its class.
4.) Prices starting as low as $6500.99 or $10.98 per month!
So ya, the eccoline and the scion are sports cars.
(and dont make fun of the scion xB. I drove it for work and its great, although a bit slow on the getup.. and cheap).
#29
Banned
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Originally Posted by Ike
Paying more than $3 for gas
Saving 10 cents a gallon
Potentially subjecting a sensitive engine to detonation, priceless
Saving 10 cents a gallon
Potentially subjecting a sensitive engine to detonation, priceless
Originally Posted by Raptor75
The only purpose of higher octane gas is to prevent predetonation.
There is detonation - the uncontroled expansion of the ignited fuel charge, and;
pre-igntion which is the spontaneous auto-ignition of the charge prior to the intended igntion event.
Originally Posted by ken-x8
That's the intended purpose. But it also prevents dieseling on some cars.
Last edited by MazdaManiac; 08-28-2006 at 05:29 PM.
#30
stop flooding ur engines
if you are so strapped for cash that u need to save 2 bucks per fillup, u wouldnt be owning a rotary now would u.
if it ran better and faster or whatev else u ppl think is good on 87 octane, they would tell u to run it on 87. i run 93 until the day i die. if they sold 95 id run that. the 2 bucks a week is worth the piece of mind to me. i get 18mpg city and i am plenty happy that a rotary can reach that.
wanna save $? sell it and get a corolla
if it ran better and faster or whatev else u ppl think is good on 87 octane, they would tell u to run it on 87. i run 93 until the day i die. if they sold 95 id run that. the 2 bucks a week is worth the piece of mind to me. i get 18mpg city and i am plenty happy that a rotary can reach that.
wanna save $? sell it and get a corolla
#32
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Originally Posted by RoXanneBlack8
u wouldnt be owning a rotary now would u.
if it ran better and faster or whatev else u ppl think is good on 87 octane, they would tell u to run it on 87.
if it ran better and faster or whatev else u ppl think is good on 87 octane, they would tell u to run it on 87.
#33
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Originally Posted by SayNoToPistons
Yes... and the econoline van is a sport car according to Ford.
#34
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EFI engines can't "deisel".
I don't know if I was also getting preignition - there wasn't any pinging and it seemed to run as usual when the ignition was on - but I do know that octane made a difference for the run-on.
I have no idea what secondary effects octane has on a rotary. But I'll take Mazda's word for it on what fluids to use.
Ken
#36
I4NI
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Originally Posted by zeblien
No sell it and get a Scion. But sell the car to me for $25 bucks. I would give you more, but i need to save money for gas for my 8.
LOL! maybe you should've kept the box or start running 87
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Originally Posted by RoXanneBlack8
if you are so strapped for cash that u need to save 2 bucks per fillup, u wouldnt be owning a rotary now would u.
if it ran better and faster or whatev else u ppl think is good on 87 octane, they would tell u to run it on 87. i run 93 until the day i die. if they sold 95 id run that. the 2 bucks a week is worth the piece of mind to me. i get 18mpg city and i am plenty happy that a rotary can reach that.
wanna save $? sell it and get a corolla
if it ran better and faster or whatev else u ppl think is good on 87 octane, they would tell u to run it on 87. i run 93 until the day i die. if they sold 95 id run that. the 2 bucks a week is worth the piece of mind to me. i get 18mpg city and i am plenty happy that a rotary can reach that.
wanna save $? sell it and get a corolla
I guess I'll take my couple bucks of saved money a week and have a Guinness at the bar. Cheers.
#38
Originally Posted by RoXanneBlack8
if you are so strapped for cash that u need to save 2 bucks per fillup, u wouldnt be owning a rotary now would u.
if it ran better and faster or whatev else u ppl think is good on 87 octane, they would tell u to run it on 87. i run 93 until the day i die. if they sold 95 id run that. the 2 bucks a week is worth the piece of mind to me. i get 18mpg city and i am plenty happy that a rotary can reach that.
wanna save $? sell it and get a corolla
if it ran better and faster or whatev else u ppl think is good on 87 octane, they would tell u to run it on 87. i run 93 until the day i die. if they sold 95 id run that. the 2 bucks a week is worth the piece of mind to me. i get 18mpg city and i am plenty happy that a rotary can reach that.
wanna save $? sell it and get a corolla
It is your prerogative to throw your money away needlessly, if you owned the car for 10 years you'd be spending an additional $1,500 on gas. If this doesn't bother you I have a $10 candy bar I'd like to sell you.
#39
Ok, so now the reason to use 93 and not 87(see below). So the question really is ... What does Mazda say about the 8 using high octane gas? Does the engine work better on it or not? My experience says that my 8 gets better mileage on lower octane mid grade. Does that mean it also has more power in that band of gas? I'm not sure, but I'd also never put 87 in it risking engine damage.
The Mazda manual online says Requires 91 octane. So I'll use 91 and 5w20 non-synthetic oil.
Does High Octane Gas Give More Power?
No. Unless your car is explicitly designed for high octane gas (see your car's manual), using a high octane gas will NOT improve the power output of your engine. Again, the octane rating relates to how much energy it takes to ignite the gas, but NOT directly to how much energy the gas puts out.
Exception 1 - By Design
One exception is with engines or cars designed for high octane gas. In that case, using high octane gas WILL improve performance and mileage. The reason has to do with the compression and ignition timing characteristics of the engine. Those specially designed engines will only perform efficiently with higher octane gas. Most engines are not designed this way.
Exception 2 - Engine Knocking
The second exception is if your car has a lot of engine knocking or pinging. This is a sign that the gas is not igniting when it should. This reduces the power and efficiency of the engine. Assuming your car's manual says it's okay, using a high octane gas can help.
The Mazda manual online says Requires 91 octane. So I'll use 91 and 5w20 non-synthetic oil.
Does High Octane Gas Give More Power?
No. Unless your car is explicitly designed for high octane gas (see your car's manual), using a high octane gas will NOT improve the power output of your engine. Again, the octane rating relates to how much energy it takes to ignite the gas, but NOT directly to how much energy the gas puts out.
Exception 1 - By Design
One exception is with engines or cars designed for high octane gas. In that case, using high octane gas WILL improve performance and mileage. The reason has to do with the compression and ignition timing characteristics of the engine. Those specially designed engines will only perform efficiently with higher octane gas. Most engines are not designed this way.
Exception 2 - Engine Knocking
The second exception is if your car has a lot of engine knocking or pinging. This is a sign that the gas is not igniting when it should. This reduces the power and efficiency of the engine. Assuming your car's manual says it's okay, using a high octane gas can help.
Last edited by Smileynh; 08-29-2006 at 09:21 AM.
#40
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Originally Posted by Red Devil
You are inferring these statements based on what? You act as if the answer for you is all encompassing. I run 87. I'm not strapped for cash. My car experiences zero detonation even under pretty extreme conditions. So why would I use 93? Because Mazda "recommends" premium? To me, that is just plain foolish. If my car was experiencing detonation with 87 octane, then I'd use premium, but it doesn't.
I guess I'll take my couple bucks of saved money a week and have a Guinness at the bar. Cheers.
I guess I'll take my couple bucks of saved money a week and have a Guinness at the bar. Cheers.
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Maybe thats whats wrong with engines these days then... the octane additive. If we just used 0 octane gas, we wouldnt need sparkplugs, or starters for that mater. We could just bump the car to start the ignition process and off we go!. And since each octane grade is 10c more expencive, 0 octane should be free. True, we couldnt stop the engine very well, but who cares leave it running... its free gas!
Planet Pluto > Guinness > coors light == water > miller light.
Edit: Equasion above has been editied as suggested.
Planet Pluto > Guinness > coors light == water > miller light.
Edit: Equasion above has been editied as suggested.
Last edited by zeblien; 08-29-2006 at 10:04 AM.
#43
I4NI
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Originally Posted by Red Devil
You are inferring these statements based on what? You act as if the answer for you is all encompassing. I run 87. I'm not strapped for cash. My car experiences zero detonation even under pretty extreme conditions. So why would I use 93? Because Mazda "recommends" premium? To me, that is just plain foolish. If my car was experiencing detonation with 87 octane, then I'd use premium, but it doesn't.
I guess I'll take my couple bucks of saved money a week and have a Guinness at the bar. Cheers.
I guess I'll take my couple bucks of saved money a week and have a Guinness at the bar. Cheers.
Some people think higher(Octane) is better. Does not equal to more power.
#44
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Then why stop at 93 octane? Why don't you guys custom mix some 100 octane gas for every tank? More is better, right?
AGREE 100%!! Some people think higher(Octane) is better. Does not equal to more power.
So in some cases higher octane does equal more hp, as the ECU will retard the timing if you are running less than recommended octane gas. What the manual states.
This is an article from Car & Driver that examines this issue. In this case they tested 3 cars that the manufacturers state run on 87 octane normally, and even if you put 91 octane they only gain a few hp. Again, read my example above on the 1-10 scale for these cars 87 octane is 10, so going beyond that nets you very little. However, the cars that are supposed to run 91 octane (Saab Turbo & M3) suffered about a 6%-10% decrease in performance/hp with a switch from 91 octane to 87.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...r-premium.html
Last edited by Fanman; 08-30-2006 at 07:08 PM.
#45
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Fanman, in all fairness you should have inculded Reddevils thread....
Most any engine under pressure, S/C, T/C or high compression engine will gain more HP than fairly modified N/A engines using higher octane, slower burnning fuels.
Most any engine under pressure, S/C, T/C or high compression engine will gain more HP than fairly modified N/A engines using higher octane, slower burnning fuels.
#46
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Originally Posted by Fanman
It does if the engine's timing is set to run optimally at 91 octane. An engine's timing is not an on/off switch, it is set in degrees, and the car's computer constantly retards/advances timing based on the conditions the engine is running in. Think of it as a range of 1-10. If 87 is a 1 and 91 is a 10. If you go below 87 octane (as a few people who have gotten bad gas have the engine can no longer retard your timing that far, and you begin to get detonation. On the other end, after 91 octane, the engine has advanced the timing as far as it can and it won't go further than that, hence you are getting the maximum amount of hp you can from that engine.
So in some cases higher octane does equal more hp, as the ECU will retard the timing if you are running less than recommended octane gas. What the manual states.
This is an article from Car & Driver that examines this issue. In this case they tested 3 cars that the manufacturers state run on 87 octane normally, and even if you put 91 octane they only gain a few hp. Again, read my example above on the 1-10 scale for these cars 87 octane is 10, so going beyond that nets you very little. However, the cars that are supposed to run 91 octane (Saab Turbo & M3) suffered about a 6%-10% decrease in performance/hp with a switch from 91 octane to 87.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...r-premium.html
So in some cases higher octane does equal more hp, as the ECU will retard the timing if you are running less than recommended octane gas. What the manual states.
This is an article from Car & Driver that examines this issue. In this case they tested 3 cars that the manufacturers state run on 87 octane normally, and even if you put 91 octane they only gain a few hp. Again, read my example above on the 1-10 scale for these cars 87 octane is 10, so going beyond that nets you very little. However, the cars that are supposed to run 91 octane (Saab Turbo & M3) suffered about a 6%-10% decrease in performance/hp with a switch from 91 octane to 87.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...r-premium.html
#47
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I routinely use 87 when I'm doing all-highway running. No ill effects and I don't need that last 6-10% of horsepower for constant running at 3-4000rpm. That last 6-10% of hp is irrelevant in this case... No pinging means everything is OK as far as I'm concerned, esp. since the manual doesn't PROHIBIT it. There's even a line of reasoning that says the 87-grade is better for mileage.
#48
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Originally Posted by Silver_Surfer
Fanman, in all fairness you should have inculded Reddevils thread....
Most any engine under pressure, S/C, T/C or high compression engine will gain more HP than fairly modified N/A engines using higher octane, slower burnning fuels.
Most any engine under pressure, S/C, T/C or high compression engine will gain more HP than fairly modified N/A engines using higher octane, slower burnning fuels.
I routinely use 87 when I'm doing all-highway running. No ill effects and I don't need that last 6-10% of horsepower for constant running at 3-4000rpm. That last 6-10% of hp is irrelevant in this case... No pinging means everything is OK as far as I'm concerned, esp. since the manual doesn't PROHIBIT it. There's even a line of reasoning that says the 87-grade is better for mileage.
So in the case of the Renesis, I guess that performance can vary by either being slightly better with 87 OR slightly better with 91-93, depending on the engine's tuning? The forum seems to be very split when it comes to what gas gives more power.
Last edited by Fanman; 08-31-2006 at 12:19 AM.
#49
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I used to be staunchly in the 87 Octane camp.
Then, I changed the plugs at about 14,000 mi. Even though I'd never heard anything that sounded like pinging, I found that both leading plugs were missing a bit of insulator near the tips. This is a classic sign of knock. While I can't be sure whether or not that was the actual cause, I decided I'd rather have the larger margin of safety from higher octane. In a few thousand miles I'll check the new plugs to see how they're holding up.
This is the worse of the 2 leading plugs
Then, I changed the plugs at about 14,000 mi. Even though I'd never heard anything that sounded like pinging, I found that both leading plugs were missing a bit of insulator near the tips. This is a classic sign of knock. While I can't be sure whether or not that was the actual cause, I decided I'd rather have the larger margin of safety from higher octane. In a few thousand miles I'll check the new plugs to see how they're holding up.
This is the worse of the 2 leading plugs
#50
I4NI
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Originally Posted by Nubo
I used to be staunchly in the 87 Octane camp.
Then, I changed the plugs at about 14,000 mi. Even though I'd never heard anything that sounded like pinging, I found that both leading plugs were missing a bit of insulator near the tips. This is a classic sign of knock. While I can't be sure whether or not that was the actual cause, I decided I'd rather have the larger margin of safety from higher octane. In a few thousand miles I'll check the new plugs to see how they're holding up.
This is the worse of the 2 leading plugs
Then, I changed the plugs at about 14,000 mi. Even though I'd never heard anything that sounded like pinging, I found that both leading plugs were missing a bit of insulator near the tips. This is a classic sign of knock. While I can't be sure whether or not that was the actual cause, I decided I'd rather have the larger margin of safety from higher octane. In a few thousand miles I'll check the new plugs to see how they're holding up.
This is the worse of the 2 leading plugs
Nubo, that is a terible looking plug! This is the kind of stuff I'd wanted to see/here when starting this thread, not the here say/read that stuff. Can you tell me about your 8. Mods? If any.