Alienate

Hiyas. I was just on the Lexus lot and sat in a IS300 "4-door sports sedan"

It was mightly impressive with all the E-shift stuff and a moonroof and tons of glorious interior comforts.


The sticker price loaded was $32,600


Should this rear wheel drive beauty deserve a shot vs the RX-8?

I don't know if I can wait till next May.

N8

PS.. as you may recall, the other car on my short list is the Lancer EVO due early next year.

Desicions, desicions.

Sputnik

"E-shift"? Is that a marketing try at giving an automatic a high-tech name?

---jps

Hercules

How about no..

the IS300 is too ugly to consider.

Toadman

No flame provocations please, peeps.
You want the IS300, by all means get it.

fuz

I'll make it short.

IS300: too much luxury, not enough sport. A sporty luxury car, not a luxurious sports car. Synonym: BMW 3er, G35

It can be very capable when tuned, but then so can the RX-8, or any other car from that category.

The EVO would probably be a closer match, but ugh, it is just a souped up econo car, and I'd have a hard time looking at it saying, I spent 35k on a lancer! The cheap interior materials would really grate on me, looking at them every time I drive.

sheylen

I think the RX-8 will seduce a lot of people who were previously in the market for an executive sports saloon like the BMW 330 or the Lexus IS300. Many people want to drive a sports car but do need some practicality in the car. I am 90% of the time alone in my car, but I bring the kids occasionally to school. If we go out with the whole family, we take my wife’s MPV. The RX-8 creates a whole new category somewhere between sports sedan and sports car; it will draw customers from both sides. And will be therefore a success story.

Grimace

IS300's are nice cars. "Most sports-car like sedans" proclaims many magazines.
I like the styling (most 20-somethings do). Don't get the slushbox though.
I checked them out, tried Lexus's "build your own." Serious negative points for how Lexus arranges their option packages. In Canada (at least) you have to buy a $3000 "sport appearance package" in order to upgrade from the 16" all season tires to the 17" summer tires. Dumb stuff like that.
Other negatives are its weight (3400 lb) and its horsepower deficit (215 HP) vs. the RX-8. However, it will have more torque down low, so if your driving style is short-shifting and you don't like revs, thats a bonus.
I actually expect rear room to be similar on both models, perhaps with the nod going to the IS300 (but not by much).

Red Devil

I think they are pretty comparable cars. As far as tuning goes, there are turbo kits for the IS to run 500hp (Peter Farrell). But I think straight from the factory the RX-8 will be a much better platform/starter kit.

In my humble opinion, the RX-8 will draw any consumer that is open minded and/or fascinated by the rotary or the car's design. But some people will want the status of Lexus. I don't think you can go wrong with either car.

Sputnik

500 HP? Surely that's going to require internal upgrades...

Personally, I think the RX-8's biggest hurdle will be the notion of some "new" technology, and one that wasn't reliable before. Sure, it's not really new, and the reliability issues that were overblown (IMO) to begin with were addressed. But, perception is perception, and it's alot to overcome in a fickle business like the car market where perception goes farther than other places.

---jps

Grimace

The lexus 3.0L straight-6 is from the old last-gen Supra. There are Supra's running around with 800+ rear wheel horsepower! Don't ask me about internal mods at what horsepower level, I just know they respond extremely well to tuning and big fat turbos. The only other japanese engine I know that responds better to the aftermarket doo-dads is the straight-6 from the Skylines. I think I posted a link to a video in which a Skyline is pushing out 1100+ HP.

Immi

1100 + HP

holy ****

whats the 0 to 60 for that car?

Sputnik

Yeahbutt, that same engine block will probably have different pistons, rods, cranks, etc., when setup to run NA. They might not even have oil squirters installed. And those 800 HP engines have internals that are even upgraded from the factory turbo items.

The turbo MR2 (2.0L) comes 160 rwhp stock, and the internals can reliably handle up to 300 rwhp before the pistons become a problem. People have gotten some 500+ rwhp from the built engine (normally bored/stroked to 2.2L). But the NA MR2 (2.2L) has internals that can only handle a little over 220 rwhp reliably (again, pistons). The turbo DSMs have the same kind of upgradeability out of the stock engine, IIRC.

The Miata 1.8L engine, on the other hand, is very unique in that it was already built for turbo power. It has oil squirters, and cranks and rods that will handle some 250 rwhp before internals become a problem (rods first, as I understand it), when the engine starts at 110 rwhp stock.

---jps

Grimace

http://www.rx8forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=537

Even if you have dial-up, its worth the download.

BlueAdept

Man that's awesome...

Quick_lude

The TT Supra's have amazing internals.. A few of us went crusing with 8 of them just this weekend. There is one car that dyno'ed at almost 700 whp! A lot of upgrades, turbo, fuel, engine management but stock internals, no build up. You had to hear/see this thing go.. High 11's I think. We'd be cruising at about 160-180 and then he'd punch it and take off as if I was standing still.. Just GONE.. amazing..

jdj1971

They're not that bad of a car really. For a sedan. They definately are not what I'd classify as a sports car by any means. 2 of my friends have them. one an auto with 'e-****' I mean shift. and the other a manual. For car with a supra engine I expected much more. When you really get on it hard you really strain with anticipation like you want the engine to do more. It feels like it should but just can't. A BMW 325 with 180hp runs much better than the IS. A 330 now that's a kickin car. I'm trying real hard not to get one before the rx-8 arrives.

fuz

Yes, a sore point of the IS300 is the engine. Doesn't quite have the power you'd expect, all the while getting rather poor mileage. If I remember, the 325i manual is almost as fast as the IS300 manual, with a 30hp deficit. And better MPG, ouch.

boowana

If you want to compare the Lexus I300, try comparing it to the Mazda Protoge which has been dusting it in racing recently. The Protoge also runs against BMW and others and has won the last three races i its class.
The RX-8 should therefore EAT cars like the I300 on the track.:D

Sputnik

Well, there are a few ways that the rules have made it possible for the Protege to even up with the IS300 in the Speed Channel Touring series (SCCA sanctioned), and the Protege has been in development for two years now, and is finally becoming competitive. Meanwhile, the IS300 only started in earnest this season.

Those rules are intended to make every car as equal in overall performance as possible, so don't use that as a measuring stick.

Still, Mazda has reaped some successes out of their programs, haven't they? Those cars are SOLID now, and poor Kleinubing and Cunningham are being left behind in their older Acuras (and not because they are any kind of slouch either, mind you).

---jps

Spoonie

IS300 is over-rated. It is no BMW killer. I would prefer the Infiniti G35 over the IS300. Not to mention the ghetto'ed rear tail lights on the thing. Looks way too Honda for me. "Look I just spent $35K on a car that is attempting to look like a Ghetto'ed 1994-1997 Honda Accord!"

As for mods. The edition of Car and Driver that has "10,000 hp Shootout" (Sep?) on the cover tested an IS300 with over 600 hp. The car ran mid 13 second 1/4 mile times. You mean to tell me that a 600hp IS300 cannot beat a 333hp BMW M3? A 600HP car, mid 13s? That is horrible. $75,000 worth of mods and the car still could'nt outpreform a $50,000 M3. Did I mention that the 600hp IS300 engine blew up before the tests were complete? Needless to say I don't like the IS300, And by looking at the IS300's sales figues, not too many other people like it either. To each his/her own.

The IS300 started life in 1995 in japan. It was known as the Toyota Altezza. The car never really lit the world on fire in japan. at best It's considerd an average performer. 6 years later, throw in a new engine, Ship it to the U.S, Market the thing to death, and voila, instant BMW killer. I don't think so. The IS300 is Toyota's failed attempt to create a BMW beater. Better luck next time Toyota.

Alienate

Thanks, everyone.

I think I will scratch the IS300 off my list.

However, when is that HOT sounding Mazda6 MPS Turbo beauty supposed to hit American showrooms? Should I add that baby to my list? :p

Hercules

There's no definate date at all. It's a concept at this point, but if the RX-8 and Mazda6 do the numbers Mazda's hoping for (and I think they will, considering European Mazda6 numbers so far), you'll see the MPS Mazda 6, as well as the next generation RX-7 in the 2005 model year.

Donny Boy

RX-8 vs. Lexus IS 300
What is it that really makes a luxury car a luxury car? Take for instance the Lexus IS 300. This is a very nice car, but it is no luxury car in the true sense of the word.

What it is, is from a luxury car family.

The Lexus is without doubt, a sports sedan. However, not having a 6 speed manual option or a rotary engine, it loses out with me.

The Mazda RX-8, while also a sports sedan, is however, far more sporing than the IS 300.

more horsepower
lighter weight
6 speed manual
sportier design
rotary engine

Both cars would have around the same level of luxury and the RX-8 should even have a smoother running engine, you know, rotary and all. Also, Mazda has a reputation for handling that few manufacturers can equal, much less surpass.