^^^ well put to be named,,,I ve found your questions well constructed so you usually get specific guidance and advice,,, I am not nearly as knowledgable as I would like to be nor as the senior memebers either but Ive been around for a while and like to think that I can find what I want when I want,,, It just seems to be the case that there are clear distinctions between people whom really are really seeking knowledge and those whom want to be spoon fed,,,

That's one of the problems. The elites are not *supposed* to help. They do because they *choose* to, which is excellent. But when they start feeling like they have to, then their patience with newbies can run thin. Very understandable, but it wears them out. I'd rather see the experts kick back and relax. At least enough to not get frazzled. There are enough of us with modest knowledge to share the load on the simpler stuff. Everyone except the forum owner (whose unceasing and backbreaking work is deeply appreciated) should aim at enjoying the site.

Ken

I made a list of names who "bash" me for telling n00bs to search, no elites on the list of course

and guess what, the funny thing is, those people hardly ever helped anyone else, even when it comes simple stuff like oil changes and weight. what makes them have the right to bash me in the first place ?

I think this is a problem.

I believe that newb bashing is healthy for a forum. Other than getting the entertainment value out of watching a few clueless newbs being decimated by the witty folks here on RX8club, I think newb bashing serves a higher purpose as a deterrent to starting worthless threads and posting disinformation. Becoming a member of RX8club should be a rite of passage. Every now and then, you’ll step on a land mine and get crushed by a more experienced and knowledgeable member, but you get back up, dust yourself off, and keep posting while you learn. This sort of dynamic raises the bar of the entire forum, and promotes engaging and productive discussion across all levels of members.

Pander to the newbs, and you destroy the catalyst that forces them to get up to speed and become contributors instead of leeching parasites.

As a newb, I've tried to search before posting and when I do post I've been getting respectful answers. However, I've been browsing the forums a while and I see both sides of the coin.

I think my biggest gripe agains the "search noob" response is that it is a minimalist approach to helping. These forums making conveying ideas quite a bit more difficult than speaking in person (even with all these emoticons :)), so it lowers the value of a minimalist approach even further.

What I'd like to see, and try to do, is to at least provide links to existing discussions. If the thread is dozens or hundreds of pages long, maybe an approx page number to start looking. It really doesn't take that much effort. Or if there are tons of threads on this topic already, suggest a few search words that would be most effective. A lot of times I'm sitting here thinking about something that might be discussed to death and have no idea what to search for.

And really, if you don't feel like making any helpful suggestions, there's really no reason to reply at all... "SEARCH NOOB!" might cute or funny to you, but really if the user on the other side just got here and hasn't had a clue on where to search or what to search for, and this is their first response to a question they're seriously concerned about, they'd feel like crap. If these guys actually do stick around, they will be the ones to relay this message to the next group that joins, and the chain continues. I hope we can stay away from that.

Am I on your list? :eyetwitch
:Eyecrazy: What happens to those on the list when you scratch them off? :)

They have no right. But they will. It becomes a problem if you let it.

Speaking as a long time veteran of usenet (which makes this place look like a lady's tea party) personal attacks and defenses tend to be pointless. Forum members figure who to respect and who to not respect from the original posts, not who gets in the last word.

FWIW, as I mentioned earlier, I do find most of the "Search, noob" posts to be tiresome. Not a criticism of anyone; just a personal artistic judgement. I did find Mugato's version entertaining, partly because of his avatar and partly because of his impassioned "For love of God!"

Ken

I agree with what you stated here.

The range of experience one finds on this site is pretty wide; widest I've seen in fact. Getting "newbs" up to speed who'll put out the effort should be one of its goals.

The site appears to have about 15-20 very serious enthusiasts and 4-5 people who do or could earn a living working on these cars.

It appears to have have countless people who'd have trouble changing their oil.

I think you need both and all that is in between to have a successful site.

To better facilitate this wide range, the site's organization could be modifed so that very basic questions are better separated from the more in depth discussions where you'll find the very serious to pros participating.

It's not that it's bad, it could be better.

Actually, I think it is set up that way. If you look at the index:

RX-8Discussion
This tends to be the catch all

Tech & Performance
Brakes down the different areas of interest

One would think so, but then you'll find too many "Help!!!! My A/C knob is broken" in the Tech and Performance section.

Haven't thought about how to organize it differently where such posts would be limited. Note I said limit, not prevent.

Not my original idea, but I'll suggest creating a Tech Lounge section for beginner mod and tech questions. Sticky the heck out of it with all the oil, mpg, etc. threads.

Have the description say "hey you stupid newbs! get your dumb asses in here!"

This worked well on another forum...

I agree, this site is very well broken out more so than many other car forums ive been on...Its quit clear that the pros tend to stick around in the tech and performance sections and their debates are outstanding when it comes to the depth of knowledge, these people get right down to the nitty gritty... I dont think ive ever even commented in a thread that was set up by RotaryGod or Mazmart, these guys knowlegde are well over my head, but the threads that seem to minor issues,, ie the ac knob example keeps getting repeated over and over,,, and most of the time when noobs are told to search politly they pull an attitude and snap back,,,I did serach thanks for the advice a-hole(apparently not enough).... and thats what ususally leads me to be more aggressive with the next person....

I love the idea of nycgps sig,, has intant info in his sig....

Fwiw the forum needs an upgrade. Every year there are more 8s produced and more aftermarket parts on the market. Yet the stickies that vets refer to are rarely maintained or upgraded. Most of a first page of a sticky is pretty worthless and searching gets harder and harder as the sheer volume of info - good and bad - makes finding answers to specific questions difficult.

Wiki posts maintained and updated by experienced members would go a long way to curtailing the repeat questions that make people who've answered them a 100 times ignore them on the 101st.

For the most part tho my experience has been a good one and if I'm looking for info about my car I can almost certainly find it somewhere on here. If I'm looking for people who are gonna be a little more tolerant of noobish questions I go to my regional thread and ask there. They know I'll return. The favor by buying a beer or two.

I don't think we should assume that because cheap 8's are everywhere that we should expect the quality of the discussion to go down...I was a bigger gearhead at 18 than I am now at 40. I remember the dumbest threads from years back, actually.

8's were 40+ grand (Canadian) when I bought in, the fact that kids can easily partake now means only that there's never been a better time to be a car enthusiast. Take it from me, I turned 16 and got my licence in '84...nothing but garbage available back then.

Although I have only been around since April 2008, I think part of what you are seeing has to do with the fact that back in 2004 everyone was in the "Honeymoon phase" with both their new RX8 and this messageboard. Everything was new to the members of this board and everything about the RX8 was new to the members.

For example (ficticious):

Someone might ask "Hey.....what is this button for?!?" and 732 rx8club.com members would ask "Yeah......what the hell is that button for, anyway?"

Eventually, someone would point out "Hey....that is the DSC button!" and 732 rx8club.com members would say "oh.....cool!" and the community would discuss this feature and learn as a whole.

Meanwhile, potential RX8 buyers ready to purchase a new RX8 would chime in asking "Do I need to get DSC or can I get by without it?" followed by discussion (and learning)

Eventually, someone would state "Hey.....DSC is fine on the public roads, but I wish we could disable it for track, that would be good, surely!" And within time someone would respond "You turn it off by pressing the button for 7 seconds......and please don't call me Shirley" and everyone on the board learned.

It is stuff like this that was part of the "Honeymoon phase" and that lent towards that "brotherly" atmosphere.

Now multiply that times every other feature and every inch of the car that was part of the initial learning curve. Another example would be someone saying "Hey.....this sure doesn't feel like the car has 250 hp as advertised!" and I think you will know what I am getting at.

I may be just a newbie, but I think it is fair to say that that honeymoon phase has passed, and people are now familiar with this board and their RX8's, and the "brotherly" feeling from learning about an introduction year car has passed.

But that does not mean that there is no brotherly or sisterly atmosphere here today, evidenced by the fact that the old vets, and even the newer vets, without fail, everyday it seems, are always willing to welcome new or potential RX8 owners, and have the patience to answer the same questions they were asking back in 2003.

And I think that when there is the occasional gruff "search, noob!" comment, just wait............it is usually followed by another poster explaining why they should search in a "nicer" tone, explaining how to search, why to search, even to the point that they provide a specific link to an existing thread, and sometimes just flat out answering the question.

Kumbaya.

I agree with alot of what To be named later said.
Forum is going thru a transition period where a big influx of 2nd hand buyers are coming in. And as new mixes with experience, there has been a little bit of surly-ness. Probably part of the natural evolution.

Personally, I think it is a waste of time and effort to even post "Search Noob", just as I think it was a waste of time a while back when people would put random one word posts out just to boost post count. But as was earlier said - if someone is randomly posting previously answered stuff all over, he deserves a little lesson here and there. It is part of learning to exist in the forum world.
Maybe I have thick skin (or a thick skull) but when someone told me to search, at least I knew the info was out there - and generally I got pointed to it soon enough.
I prefer that to just getting 0 replies.

I prefer the local sections and the local forum because you aren't as anonymous and words have reprecussions on your reputation. Too many people hide behind the inanets.

*edit* - Can we fix the Lounge next. Jeez, hasn't any one had an original idea lately.

it is somewhere in the middle right now.. as a troll hunter. not to be confused with a newb killer. i will say this..

i spent 6 months here before i got the car.. back then we all learned together..

not so much now..

i do sometimes post the how to search thread!! and this great link..

https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...25&postcount=4

wow, it is out there..

and another..

https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-forum-197/rx8-faq-new-owners-116484/

and i got to tell you if you ask a question that is in the owners manual. sorry. cant help you..

here is a good last post that if they were not lazy, or really wanted to learn. duh!

https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-exterior-appearance-body-kits-27/whats-part-called-where-can-i-get-149920/

food for thought..

beers :beer:

I keep thinking this forum is getting increasingly worse, but then I head over to other boards. This is still one of the nicer communities around, really. Sure we have our bad eggs, and not everyone is as nice as they should be, but by and large, there's much less to complain about around here then you'll see at other boards.

Swoope, I like this one of yours better..

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

i dont try to bash, i try n guide if i dont know...

I agree with To be named later: it's only polite to try to search for answers before making a post. I'm definitely a newb, both to this forum and to the RX-8, but I did a lot of reading here before buying my car and have done even more reading in the 2 months since then. Which, I think, is why the three question threads that I've started didn't get flamed.

That said, I learned my etiquette from years of being on other forums. The average 18-year-old might not have the same experience. So this is where they learn, and in that regard I think a certain degree of newb-bashing is only right.

Well, I guess it's time to toss out my .02. I am a loooooonnngggg time lurker. I've been reading the forum since 2005. Since I didn't own an RX8, I didn't feel I should have a username. I fell in love with the RX8 in 2004 and when I first found this forum I spent weeks just trying to absorb everything I could. I have yet to own the 8, however now that I have ordered it I'm sure I will be a lot more vocal. I have seen the "expierenced" and the "noobs". I've even seen some of the "noobs" take their smacks and learn enough to become "expierenced". While yes, there are some that are just @sses to be an @ss, the majority of the active community are always willing to help each other out and help someone who actually wants to LEARN about the rotary. Most of the "noobs" I've seen get smacked around are people who have their username for 5 minutes and begin with a series of questions even the Mazda sales guy can answer. "What kind of oil should I put in", "Why do I have to check the oil", "Why can't I outrun a mustang in a 1/4 mile", "How come my car just flooded I only had it on for like a min", etc. Yes, as the price drops more people will buy it and have stupid questions. Typically it is the same people that will have the same stupid questions a month from now. Some people just don't WANT to learn and I think it's ok if they get their hand smacked. RX8Club is a wealth of knowledge as many people have commented on, why have that wealth trashed by 1,000 threads of stupid questions making it difficult or impossible to find the knowledge of people like RotaryGod, Hymee, Jedi, and so many more available here?

If someone really wanted to learn, then they would do their research first. Whatever they can't find or are unclear about, then they should ask questions (even if it has been asked before). But some people ask questions that could be easily found on the Mazda website, for example. That just shows they're expecting to be spoonfed. Learning requires effort.

DIE ! :shocking: :shocking: :shocking:

j/k

nah, u're not. but if u want me to "add" you, let me know, alright ? hahahaha :wiggle: