My Totalled(?) RX-8
 

Well, Im sick to death about my accident.

Waiting at a Red light for it to change. But apparently the woman in the F150 truck wasnt paying attention and skid to a stop but not before slamming into my rear end. FFS. What the hell was she doing?

Her skid marks were 30 feet. 20 feet before impact and ten feet after. She knocked me about 20 feet forward into the car in front of me, Not much damage up front but the rear is a mess.

I have no trunk now. The rear window blew out. And the roof has a buckle in it. Also the gap between the left rear quarter and the back door has closed up a little.

I have no pictures yet as it just happened this morning. Will post em later.

Question. Sound totalled? It looks pretty bad to me. Can they rebuild the back end of the car without replacing the rear clip? Anyone experienced rear enders? And the results?

Please help me. I dont want a patched up RX-8. I think they should total it. Any suggestions?

Well, it's not really you call whether they total it or not. They told me in NJ that if the damage is greater than 75% of the value of the vehicle it's totalled. What I wonder is that do they have a higher price to compare that to (such as the blue book) than they use when they say your car is totalled and it's worth $XXX and hand you a check.

Beware, you may be in limbo for a while

Take pix, judging only on your description, I think that car is totalled. Find out just how much damage constitutes a "totalled" car from your insurance company.

That sucks... sorry. You should PM Aratinga- she was rear-ended on a highway and your description sounds a lot like her pictures. I know hers was in the shop for months... I would push your insurance company to total it.

Good luck...

Sorry to hear that. Given you're here I'm assuming you're okay.

WTH is with 8s being accident magnets?

I would think that if the roof is buckled, then there might be some frame damage. I don't know if that constitutes a totaled vehicle, but it will probably never be the same if there is frame damage and they decide to fix it. Also, how many of your airbags deployed? Those are very costly to reset, and if you have significant damage elsewhere, this can often put the car over the 75% mark. The airbags in my previous vehicle were $3500 to reset per airbag. I don't know if the RX-8's airbags are that expensive, but I know mine has 8 separate airbag logo locations, so I am sure they can add up really quickly. Call the "Texas Hammer" Jim Adler! LOL. Good Luck.

Sorry about the accident. Glad you're ok.

Aratinga's thread was already mentioned, check it out. Also, look for silvereight's thread. He wasn't rear ended but the insurance company would not total the car and the expenses of the repairs actually exceeded the original purchase price (and there were more hidden damages even after the repair was supposedly completed). The insurance company finally gave up and totaled it and gave him a check to buy a new one.

Gosh, sorry to hear that but I'm glad you are OK!!!

When there is (and if there is) frame damage the car is NEVER the same and trying to sell it with previous frame damage will be very difficult. If the insurance company tires to play with you make sure you bring that up.

A car with frame damage is as good as dead...will they care, not sure...but FIGHT for it because we don't pay for insurance to be played around with by them.

I work with insurance claims...the more evidence, details, etc you give...and the better argument you make...the better chance you have to have a good decision.

Sorry again...

And... ? :)

Glad to hear the damage was to your property and not you personally- things can always be repaired or replaced.
My son experienced a similar accident in a Toyota Solara, in that most of the damage was done to the rear of the vehicle. I then learned of a technique that body shops sometimes use to repair such damage. They call it a "tip and tail". Essentially what is done is that they cut the car in half behind the front seats, and weld a new back end to it. The more I considered this type of repair, the less comfortable I became with it. I couldn't help thinking that if the car was ever involved in another accident, it could split open at the welded seam exposing the occupants to real danger. I let my insurance company know, in no uncertain terms, that this type of repair was unacceptable. A few days later the insurance company totalled the car, and delivered to me a big, fat check.
My advice is to stay informed as to how the insurance company intends to have the car repaired, and if they recommend the "tip and tail", don't accept it.
Best of luck in getting back in an 8 soon!

Man, that really sucks. Just be glad you weren't hurt. That's the important thing.

At least we know the 8 is pretty good at protecting the driver when rear ended.

You will be entitled to benefits through her insurance company such as loss of use and rental car. For your sake, I hope the car gets totaled and that you have gap coverage if there is a deficiency.

At least you can still get good deals on leftover new '04's. Maybe it will work out for you.

I thought so- just giving you shit :D

First and ForeMost I hope you were not hurt in anyway at all.

Sorry to hear about what happened.

The lady was probably on the phone, right?

:eek: Women!

So sorry to hear about your accident. Find yourself a body shop who will work with you on this.

After being disatisfied with 2 body shops who wanted to get the body work and insurance check instead of worrying about my needs and safety, the 3rd one I went to (found through personal references) worked with me. They helped to identify what Mazda considers the 'structural' components in the repair order.

I insisted that structural (unibody) components needed to be replaced EXACTLY as they came from the factory (ask them about the kinds of welds they will use and whether it is exactly the same as factory specification - then ask them whether they can guarantee for the life of the vehicle that their welds will perform and hold up the same as the factory welds). In order to meet my repair requirements the repair estimate was quite costly, and my car ended up being declared a total loss.

Good luck.

If the insurance company totals out your car they will only pay book value, which may be less than what you owe on it. You eat the rest. They are not required to pay the full cost of replacement. Whether you bought or leased it, find out what your current payoff figure is.

first of all if the frame is damaged and needs repair, check to see if its massive frame damage, and if they want to repair it, dont take that bullshit, NO VEHICLE ever ran smoothly after the frame was repaired. my friend's rsx type-s got rear ended by his own retarded friend, it wasnt even that much damage but the frame was affected and they pretty much totaled it because of the small frame damage.

note* frame damage = total it (dont take bs from insurance company)


also friend bought an old 94 old civic dx and when he bought a body kit for it, the front bumper didnt fit, of course we knew the title wasnt clear and it had one accident, and guess what the rear bumper didnt fit, golly, we should have known. *plus the rear bumper looked a bit off anyways* so we had to somewhat bend the fiberglass just a bit to make it fit. It did fit but it was close to being perfect or even accurate at the most.

and no it wasnt the body kit because the front and sides were snug at best.

Sorry about your accident. Same thing happened to my GF 2 years ago, a white F150 driven by a 16 yr old slams into her rear while waiting for the red light to change. The F150 didn't even bother to brake. It was as if the light was green and the lane was clear for her. My GF's car was thrown into the intersection almost 30 ft. It took her a few seconds before she realized what just happened and sped up to pull over to the next curb to avoid blocking the intersection.

Geez, there should be an IQ requirement for vehicles that are truck or SUV in category. All stupid drivers I've seen for the past years drive huge vehicles.

Valpac, sorry to hear your red suffered the same indignity mine did. Here's a couple pix of mine:

https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=23700
https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...chmentid=23701

My insurance company refused to total mine; the repair bill came to over $16,000, the repairs took over five months, and now that I finally have the car back it's not worth jack $hi+ valuewise. It does drive every bit as well as it did new, though. It'll just never be worth anything on resale or trade-in.

You mentioned having some front-end damage as well, and this actually may be your saving grace -- that may make yours a total. Because I managed to avoid hitting the person in front of me when a pickup truck slammed into me from behind, my front end was untouched, my airbags weren't deployed, and my repair bill did not meet the 85% of retail value minimum to be a total. Also, my roof did not buckle; if yours did, that's another factor in your favor towards a total.

If your car looks anything like mine did (and it sure sounds like it) you definitely have frame damage. Your rear frame members will need to be cut off and replaced. Your carbon fiber driveshaft should be replaced... it's not designed to withstand a hit from the rear. Your rear quarter panels will have to be sawn off below the door and through the C-pillar and replaced. DEFINITELY have the estimator include new motor mounts for the engine; mine were sheared off by the impact (engine stays still while car body is shoved violently forward).

Also be sure you have yourself checked out by a doctor. I ended up having two herniated spinal discs in my neck.

I hope the dimbulb who hit you had insurance. Mine didn't. My own insurance company had to pay for everything.

:( So sad Aratinga. I saw those photos earlier and nearly cried looking at em. Now I have a car that is eerily similar. Mine is slightly different in that she hit me a little left of center so the leftside damage goes past the gas cap pushing sheet metal into the tire. Also cant see into my trunk cuz it's closed up completely. Plus my muffler was pushed down and in and the bumper was detached
Gauging by your pix, my damage looks a little worse, if thats possible.

No air bags went off in mine either. Did your seat break? My seat broke back into the rear seat.

I am still amazed at the safety of this car though. And other than being showered with glass anyone sitting in the back seats would've be fine.

I wonder if that is why they didn't total it out -- since they had to pay for it (vs. other driver's insurance company). At 85%, should we ask who you are insured with?

I suppose you could sue the other driver for stuff like loss of use or diminished value but that is many times a losing proposition. I suppose if you had major medical bills such that an attorney wanted to take your case, you could get some reimbursement besides the medical bills - but then a lawyer will take their cut, leaving you with not much.

That is what I hate about the insurance process - there is so much liability in these kinds of accidents that fall into a gray area, where insurance won't cover it and where you are lucky if you as an individual can recover it.

- - -
valpac: something you may want to do is review any repair estimates with a fine tooth comb. All 3 of the body shops I worked with missed items, and also had less expensive substitutions. For example, one of my headlights was broken, and 2 of the shops' repair order called for the less-expensive headlight assembly (vs. a xenon which was on the car). In another repair order, I found where my wheel replacements were going to be substituted for some 3rd party wheels, and I had to insist they replace them with Mazda factory wheels - which were $200 @ more. It helped me alot to play an active role in understanding what all needed to repaired vs. replaced too.

I called the local Mazda Body Shop. He said once the appraiser lets you know what they plan on doing with the car, tow it over to him and he will go over the car with a fine toothed comb. If the car is not totalled, he said there is usually a "differential" which could make the estimate "total". We'll see. I have to wait for the appraisal first.

And as far as playing an active role, I'm gonna be all over it.

Local Mazda Body Shop said that sometimes happens but they would not do that on a 2005 but would use factory oem parts all around. He said they would strip the car to determine all that was needed for a complete repair. This will usually drive the cost beyond what the initial appraisal comes in at. I can only hope. He also said to be wary of any repair that takes less than a month. Damage that extensive takes a month or longer to repair.

I am SO sorry to hear what happened to your baby!

I hope you get checked out by a doctor just to be absolutely certain. My brother got in a car wreck last year, felt totally fine but a week later his shoulder was KILLING him. It's been a year and he's still rehabbing the thing.

Alright everyone, here's what I've learned from this thread: If you get rear ended, HIT THE GAS and mess up the front end of your car as well! You can always claim that you were "pushed" forward and it'll certainly guarantee that the insurance company totals your RX. :eek:

Please keep us posted on how this goes.

I've posted about all of the above in various places here on the forum (it's an ongoing saga)... but the basics are:

• I was hit by a truck owned by the City of Pasadena, CA, and driven by a city employee;
• Cities are "self-insured", which means that in California they can basically tell you "too bad" even when they are 100% liable, as in this case;
• You only have six months from date of accident to file a claim against a city, which they will routinely deny;
• I was rear-ended in July '04, got my car back from the body shop the last week of December '04, filed my claim with the city in Feb. '05, and the city hasn't even bothered to respond;
• My insurance company, USAA, declared the City of Pasadena "an uninsured motorist" because Pasadena has ignored all their requests for subrogation;
• I have an attorney and am attempting to collect from Pasadena for the loss of use of my car, my medical bills, and diminished value, even though my attorney has told me that diminished value is almost never paid in California.
• I tried to trade my RX-8 in on another car after I got it back, and even though Carfax doesn't list the accident, somehow the dealership knew the car had been wrecked and repaired; they weren't interested in taking the trade unless they charged me over $2000 for it.

Glad you're OK. :)
Hope your car isn't... Then you can post pix of your new 8.

Please keep us posted on your insurance company's decision.

BTW - If you don't mind saying, which insurance company do you have?
My wife works for the company that insures my 8, so I don't think I'd have any problems getting mine totaled.

Good luck

- Cesar -

I was told to expect one week of repair time for each $1000 worth of damage. With damage as extensive as yours I can practically guarantee that the total cost of repair will be considerably more than the initial appraisal/estimate -- possibly even thousands of dollars more. You also have lots of aftermarket items on your car that were damaged, right? You are entitled to have those replaced.

Don't forget to include new driveshaft and motormounts in the estimate; if they're not there, insist on them. That'll add another $1500 or so.

Good luck. Be patient.

Thanks for all your help. It will come in handy. So far the insurance appraiser said repairable :mad: and about 12K in damage. :( :mad: :( Based on your car I think thats really low.

I had the car towed to Mazda Collision Center telling them I would rather the car total than to have to wait to get back a repaired vehicle. They said they will start with the appraisers estimate and take the car apart to get the "real" cost to repair.

Only have one picture (from my phone) to show. Am going to get more I think tomorrow.

Yeah... sounds familiar. My initial estimate was about $12K as well. By the time all the repairs were done it came to over $16K. Expect it to take at least one week for each $1K of repairs; make sure you get reimbursed for a rental car.

If you like, I can give you the name of the guy I worked with at my body shop, which is also at a Mazda dealership. He learned a lot about RX-8 rear-ender repairs doing my car, and he'd be the one to tell your body shop what to look for.

While your car's in the shop, STOP BY OFTEN. Take pictures of the repairs as they progress, especially as the new body panels are being welded in place. You have to make sure the welds are done according to Mazda's body repair manual. Oh, and expect your car to get absolutely f***ing filthy while it's in the shop; mine was immaculate when it went in and now I'll never get all the grit and dust out of all the nooks and crannies.

I can tell you that, now that I've finally got my car back and all the little issues have been ironed out (like a stubborn water leak that was soaking the rear seat cushions every time it rained), the car drives just like new. You'd never be able to tell she's been through that kind of damage and repair. The paint match was perfect, the body panels line up perfectly and the gaps between them are all even. There were little smudges of paint overspray here and there that I had them clean up, but overall the repair was excellent and I enjoy driving the car every bit as much as I did before... maybe even more so now, because I'm not worried about having to keep her pristine anymore! :D

Valpac, here are the pics of my collision from an F-150 to the rear-end with some damage to the driver's side doors from a secondary impact from another vehicle. Does not look like much and hardly damaged compared to yours, but my total is currently $8,900 and has been in the shop since 28 Feb and will not be done until the 22nd of April. Even though it does not appear to have much damage, there was a significant offset of the unibody that required 8 pulls to restore to factory specs. Make sure the shop you use has a unibody alignment machine before you let them do the work. Feel free to PM me with any questions...

Thanks AirForceRX8. Will do.

Questions for Aratinga and AirForceRX8 (or anyone who had repairs done on their RX8). Did you get a Mazda dealer to do the repairs? Did or would you have considered any body shop other than Mazda?

Was your warranty affected at all? TIA

I had my car towed to a shop that is actually on the same lot as a Mazda dealership, but is an independent business that works on all makes of cars. I figured that the car was going to need mechanical work as well as body repair, and that having Mazda technicians and a Mazda parts source right there would be smart.

I considered other shops, but because I wanted Mazda techs to do the mechanical work I stayed with the original shop.... especially since the RX-8 is still a relatively new model and I didn't want some guy working on it who had never worked on an 8 before.

As far as warranty goes... my Mazda warranty on drivetrain, etc. is unaffected. I do not know if the original Mazda warranty extends to the new replaced body parts, but since they are all Mazda OEM parts and the work was done by a shop affiliated with a Mazda dealer, I would expect the warranty to remain in effect.

Additionally, the bodyshop warrants all its repairs and paint work for the life of the car, but only for as long as I own it! That totally sucks, because if I go to sell the car, the bodyshop will no longer honor the warranty on their work. That's f***ed up, but apparently it's standard for the industry. Arguing about it with them got me nowhere.

I went to Harrison's Body and Glass in Macon. They have been nothing short of amazing thus far and so has USAA. When the other idiots POS insurance company was jacking me around Harrison's put my 8 on the unibody machine whether or not they were going to get paid for the time because they want my car to be right. Then USAA stepped in and waived my $500 deductible so that I didn't have to hassle with Palisades any more.

By all means shop around and ask for a tour of the facility, make them show you why your car should be repaired there as opposed to somewhere else. My gut feeling when I toured Harrison's was that this was a place that the quality of the repair was the number one priority. One facility would not let me tour the area (gave the age old insurance doesn't allow it routine), the other two were untidy, unorganized and had guys standing around cars with open interiors smoking and goofing off. Have them explain the three stage paint process to you as well to ensure you are getting it done right. Base coat of color, mica, then clear coat. If they mix the mica with the base coat then it is two stage and will not look right. This is business and they should make you feel good about their customer service, professionalism, and proper work ethic.

Well tried to get pictures last weekend but were closed. The latest is Im still playing the repair/total game with the insurance co. and body shop. Got the insurance estimate for repair (of course) they said $12,566 on a car with a FMV (fair market value) of $28,000 :( (Doesnt seem very fair to me.) Looking over the item break down they left out some labor charges, some paint, some items and will "blend" (read bondo) panels which need to be replaced. Didn't have bondo before the accident, will not have it after. :mad:

Anyway, below the threshold (70% of FMV) to total it. The Dimished value they came up with is based on 10% of FMV ($2805) minus mileage (7%) times the damage modifier for a major damage to structure and panel (75%) equals $1956.:( Very weak considering the damage in my opinion.

Called the body shop. Preliminary repair estimate is $17,000 and he's not done.:eek: I also told him I'd like the motor mounts and drive shaft replaced (Thanks, Aratinga!) He said he'll pass it on. He also said diminished value (approx. 20% of repair costs) will probably be nearer $4000. Not to mention rental costs at $35/day times, say, 90 days ($3150) Ninety days to fix the mess is probably a little ambitious on my part.

My gut feeling is the car WILL total. Conservatively if he finds no more hidden costs (unlikely) and you add the diminished value and rental costs to the the $17000 you get $24,150 which is 86% of FMV. Beyond the threshold the insurance company is talking about.

We'll see. Now I wait some more.

Question for aratinga...
 

Aratinga, in the pictures of your car, what is that in the trunk? It almost looks like a car cover, but for the life of me I can not figure it out, and I try to every time I see those painful pictures. They pop up all over this forum. I know it is a little off topic, I am just curious.

Valpac, I hope they total your car,it will never be the same with frame damage.

Good luck.

They were the car cover...

It's the trunk airbag. It's a new California state safety requirement -- too many illegal aliens were being injured when the trunk they're being smuggled in gets smashed in rear-ender accidents. ;) :D

It's a car cover. I never parked that car out in the open without her blankie.

Even though she's a Frankenstein car now (glass, paint, and body panels that aren't original) I still cover her when she's outside. Old habits are hard to break.

IF its totalled what do you plan on getting? *****COUGH---STI-----COUGH********

Valpac, I think "blending" may also refer to blending of the paint -- meaning that the new paint on a replaced body panel will be blended into the existing paint on an adjacent original body panel.

The only place they should be using any Bondo would be the cut and weld seams in the C-pillar and along the door sill where they have to cut off the rear quarter panels. Here's a pic of my car during the repair to show where these cuts were made; I absolutely cannot tell where they are now. The new body panel blended into the old one seamlessly.

Valpac, I'm so sorry to hear of you got smacked. I really do sympathize with you and understand exactly what you are going through. Your estimates sound very familiar and your insurance company is acting very similar to the way mine was. There are several things that are going to happen that you need to stay on top of. I will summarize them for you.

1. Make sure your car is covered at the shop. Ask them to put a tarp or plastic over the entire car. The shops tend to not really care too much about water and crap getting into your loved one's interior and other exposed areas.

2. Expect the insurance company to fight you all the way. Never give up and always keep stating that you want a total. Document it from the beginning >>in writing<<. Do it several times. >>Very important<<

3. Take LOTS of photos all the way through the process. Visit her once a week and take pics.

4. Make friends with the guys working on the car. Even though you are completely disgusted with what is going on. If you stay on their good side they will not mind you coming in and checking on her.

5. Expect supplements. You will get different numbers during the process of tear down but until the car is actually totally broken down to start the rebuild, they will not really be able to give you a good price. You can get several supplements up to this point. Then after they start putting it together they will have additional supplements. And when it is "finished" they will find more problems with additional supplements.

6. If you are not satisfied with what your adjuster is telling you. Do not stop there. Go over his head and don't hesitate to send letters to his superior.

My threads are a good lesson in the above. If you have time you may want to read over them. If you want the links I will post them for you.

In the end, 4+ months later, as beachdog mentioned, my insurance company wound up paying over $30,000 to have the car rebuilt and gave up on it and paid me around $29,000 as well. They finally agreed to total the car and that I was right all along. My problem from the beginning was the “Adjuster from Hell”. He quit the insurance company and one week later I had settled for the total with apologies from my insurance company.

Aratinga was so mistreated and I feel for her so much I get sick just thinking about her issue. I wish there was something I could do to help her and you as well. The only thing I have to offer is my experience and I will do anything I can to assist you.

I’m not sure where Dallas is. I’m located in Buford and work in Lawrenceville so if you are close to me and want any help just let me know.

DOCUMENT, DOCUMENT , DOCUMENT!

^^^^EVERYTHING he just said!!
Definitely insist that they cover your car. I requested this many times but no one did anything. With your rear window blown out, all the dust and particulate junk blowing around the bodyshop will end up settling on your interior. All the Piano Black panels in my interior are now permanently etched and clouded from this. They would not replace them.

Good Luck ...

Ditto! Especially when it is someone else's fault, and you can't seem to 'get back' to the state you were in before the accident. I wish I were a lawyer. My 2 accident experiences in 2004 has planted a seed in my mind about studying law somehow, in my non-working hours.

In the meantime I think those of us who have gone through this should continue to offer our experience to those who are facing it anew.

I feel very fortunate that I ended up with a total loss on mine. I maintained that 1) structural components were affected; 2) as far as the unibody you can't recreate the manufacturing process (body shop uses plug welds, vs. factory pressure welds) - the stress from the accident stretched and weakened stress points, thereby affecting the future reliability and safety of holding up in another accident; (the flex, torque and crumple characteristics of that re-welded part cannot be guaranteed to be the same); 3) this is a performance-oriented sports car, and it's handling characteristics will no longer be the same due to item 2.

Car wrecks really suck, and it is really unfortunate that "insurance" (using that word very lightly) companies are such jerks about everything. My last car was a 92 Nissan Maxima that was rearended. I fought tooth and nail with the ladies insurance company to get it totalled (in my opinion any unibody crumple is a degredation in safety and therefore a total) and when they finally agreed to total it they wanted to offer me wholesale for it. So the arguments started up again as I can not go out and purchase a car for wholesale. Luckily I was engaged to a lawyer at the time and after a letter of intent they gave me what I wanted (which was the average price in Denver for the same car with same options was selling for on 13 differents lots). I just think some sort of reform needs to happen with insurance companies. We are required by law to carry insurance and they are just allowed to screw over the people that pay their wages. It kills me to see the shape of your car, hope everything works out for you. I dont know what I would do if someone rearended my new 8 . . .

In defense of my insurance company, I want to make sure you understand that once I had bypassed the assface adjuster, the company cleared everything up in a week. I am pleased with my company and have no intent on leaving them. As a matter of fact I would refer them to anyone that is interested. If you live in Georgia and want more info... PM me.

I stand (or sit) corrected. I re-read the estimate and there is no entry for labor for the BLND entries. I asked the nody shop and they said exactly the same as you stated. Blending of the paint from one panel with older paint to the new paint. No bondo. But read on....

Is that the way the STI sounds?

Thanks. And thanks for the good info. Preciate it!

BTW, Dallas is 15 miles west of Marietta.

I agree. I HATE insurance companies.

And, literally, I cried...

I agree with all of those points. Being an engineer myself, I know how deformation degrades metal properties such as strength, hardness and corrosion. I think the insurance company knows that I will really be a difficult client to deal with in the body shop, so today......