wolfbeast

Wow... crazy accident. Glad you are ok =)

if you are parting out the car... can i have the strakes?

-n

Truss

That's bullsh!t -- they should total your car with that kind of damage. There's no conceivable way its book value was $32,000. Most insurance cos will total at between 65-80% of book value.

I sure as hell wouldn't want them repairing that thing. Whose body shop are you using? One you chose or one they chose? You should take it to a qualified shop, one that does work on high end exotics, and then get an estimate on what it'll cost to repair it.

The insurance co is full of it.

Sorry about your car. I wrecked a Miata one time under similar circumstances. It's an awful experience, but at least everyone is OK.

T.

PS -- There's no way frame damage was "minimal" with that kind of front end damage. Don't believe their lies.

DViOuS

interesting, i would of thought after floorin the 8 into the corner, and letting off the gas would of definitely spun the car in one direction (not like how he described) since there was still momentum in the back to keep comin around and you just shifted the weight to the front... this was exactly what i did in the driving school the 1st time i spun, i floored it as i just passed the apex and left off the gas and continued to spin 270... i think i will need another driving school to try this out again... i've only ever had the spins in one direction, fortunate enought not to ever have had the counter-spins ones...

i'm an ex-pat from sydney, so comparative, the roads in the US are about the same, maybe only a fraction wider on the major arterials (nufin as tight as parra rd) to accomodate the big *** pickups and suvs they have here - but i wouldnt try power sliding on the roads - recipe for trouble. damn johnny boy still the pm!

DViOuS

actually if the cost to fix the car is less than 70-75% of fair market value, then they will fix it... 20K is definitely less than that, only by a fraction tho...

liqiud

hey max...sorry to hear about it...if you drive nice, i may let you take my car out for a spin or two while yours is in the shop, just so you can enjoy the experince of driving the 8...let me know.

TheGreatRenesis

How in the world should I push to have this totalled?

Just take it to various body shops and get the damage quoted?

I need help pronto, as I want to get all this settled pretty fast.

Obvisouly replacing this vehicle would be my preference even if it costs me money for multiple reasons.

Thanks for your help,
Max

Wankeler

Sorry about the car, glad all the occupants walked away from that wreck.

I'm also sorry that they plan on fixing a car, not that it can't be done and done properly by skilled technicians, but that you'll be without your ride for several weeks (hope they don't have to replace any coolant hoses either!, you may have to tack on even MORE time - ie: Aratinga).

P.S. Since it looks as if they're going to have to paint most of the car, maybe you should consider Miata's PURE WHITE, and then auction her off on eBay. Maybe you'll find someone who absolutely had to have an 8 in white and didn't buy one this model year...

TheGreatRenesis

Hah I would do the Blue Strato Mica if it was an option for me...

9-K Rever

Jesus...ur kidding me...they are not going to total that?

What inssurance company are you using??

I wouldn't trust ANYONE but Mazda to repair a RX8 that extensively. If they engine was damaged just the cost of shipping a new renesis from Japan should take that out of the question.

Dude...you need to fight like hell to get that thing totaled.

9-K Rever

Truss

Here's an interesting article on what to do if you disagree with the insurance company. The situation described is sort of the reverse of yours, but the principles still apply.

Also this.

Basically, you need to get a full estimate from a damn good shop. Have them put the car up on the lift and do a complete inspection of what it'll take to fix it. You need a shop that puts integrity ahead of profits, because remember: they want to fix the car. If the insurance co totals it and you get a new car, the shop gets nothing except its diagnostics fee.

Nevertheless, a truly good shop will tell it to you straight.

Good luck.

T.

RENE

WOW! I'm sorry to see this. I had a similar but not a bad accident. Rear bumper, ground effects and tail light---GONE!

He backed into me. Once again, sorry!

takahashi

You will flip back (fish tail) but I never believe I spun the other way. Maybe my foot is still in the gas and not totally off. Sound like what happen to most people is countersteer without letting off gas (power out). That makes the car goes faster to the tree.

You see the 500cc bike does that all the time (their back jumps out of the corner). THis is because they powered too much and the commentator may say, "too much gas there". What they did is to leave off the gas for a minisecond, point to direction you want to go and bang on the gas when regain control.

Yes johnny is still the PM. although Labor leader Mark Latham is doing very well. Johnny and Peter Costello threw money at me and my family with tax cut targeted at us. ... they still win our vote :D

TRZ750

Glad everyone is OK!

You never mentioned if you has a 6 speed and what gear you were in? If in 1st & at 5 mph when you punched it the engine was probably around 4,000 rpm, just where the power surges. Any time I want I can break my rear loose in 1st by turning the steering wheel hard and punching it. With the traction control off I just turn slightly into the slide and "feather" the throttle so the rear tires match the road speed. I have a 120 degree trun on my comute and with my 7 use to always take the turn intentionally this way (for fun and it takes less steering wheel effort). It is called throttle steering.

Bottom line is you need experiance. Both in general driving and in a new car. Why do you think race drivers are always practicing? Not just for fun or even car set up, but for driver experiance. Why do you think insurance companys charge more for guys under 25? Take a driving school. Or at least find a deserted parking lot (with no light poles or trees to hit) and start practicing to learn how to drive fast. There is nothing special or wrong about the 8.

Again glad no one got hurt.

Chevy

Big mistake... Here is some advice to fellow drivers. The first thing you should do when you begin to feel the car sliding is LET OFF THE GAS. Your tires can't regain traction when they are spining. I have alot of experience with driving on snow and ice (Back home snow and ice on the road 6 months out of the year, no salt no sand just pure ice and snow) so learning how to controll a sliding vehicle is the first thing you learn and the first thing you learn is let off the gas.

In your case letting off the gas, you would have had the car back under control before number three in you picture. But staying on the gas didn't allow the tires to regain traction, sliding the car 180 degrees, tires caught some traction jerking the car into the tree.

Your countersteer was ok, it was just the foot on the accelerator that caused all the problems.

TheGreatRenesis

About the oversteer etc...

If you would've quizzed me on paper before this all happened it's easy to say letting off the gas is the correct thing to do. Without proper training in the situation though, it all comes so fast that most of your reaction is instinctual.

As Gord mentioned much earlier, if I would've gone to some sort of Drivers school beforehand my instincts would've been much better, and this would not have happened.

I will be contacting the dealership I bought it from tomorrow but most likely Monday to find the bodyshop they would insist upon for legit estimates. Looks like I will go the route of an independent appraiser as insisted upon in the (excellent) article Truss posted. (thanks.)

My insurance guy already knew the people at the bodyshop (bad sign?) so I'm sure the bodyshop guy told him he could repair the engine without having to ship another one over. We'll see.

I have the feeling this is going to get more interesting as the days go by.

Thanks for the links
~max~

Now to answer more questions...

1. The car is a 6-speed
2. I was in first gear
3. My insurance company is All-State

9-K Rever

I disagree with the letting off of the accelorator. When you do that the back end lightens up and gets squirly. That could add to the hairyness and confusion of getting out of a bad situation.

I don't think you have to justify your driving ability or lack there of wich ever the case may be. The plain fact of the matter is accidents happen and you should not be questioned or crittized on how it happend.

I am glad you are okay man. Thats the most important thing. All this other B.S is exactly that.

You will get through it, and I hope you will not give up on the 8.

9-K Rever

takahashi

It is the biggest misconception really. There are many degree of spin, and there is out of control spin (which is usually >30 degree).

In any defense driving course I have been (usually they are free for new car purchase), 45 out of 50 people said the wrong thing about different situation about spinning. I should have tapped all the scenario on real life cars and demonstrate.

Go to a huge quiet street/ car park/ track to try out. Really no point paper talking here!

murix

Sorry to hear about the wreck but glad everyone is ok.

On the subject of oversteer/understeer. Wrecks happen to everyone, including professional drivers. There are certain situations where people like to say how they could have avoided it, but fact of the matter is that is not always true. I personally have saved myself, but I purposely bought the base model to not have TCS/DCS, but I have had a lot of prior experience and practice with rwd and sliding. I have also spent some time at the track in this particular car which has helped me find the limits.

This car is incredibly easy to control. The easiest I have ever driven, but this means nothing if you do not know how. Driving school would not only make the car safer, but it would allow you to enjoy it much more.

Short of driving school, I would recommend finding a huge empty parking lot and just take the car out in the middle of the night and spin it. Have fun. You will get a feel for what the car feels like when it is going sideways. I know there are plenty in the DFW area. I used to live there and did this very thing in my old 83 RX-7. Once you know what it feels like it is much easier to react naturally when it happens again.

Best of luck with getting your car sorted. I would definitely try to get it totaled. Even if they fixed it I would still have a hard time owning a car with that much damage.

shawrf1

First off, I'm glad to hear that everyone was ok after this incident and even more glad that you lived to recognize that you should reassess your driving abilities.

[vent]
Owning a "sports car" inherently implies fast, fun driving... but w/o the increased responsibility that's required to operate ANY deadly moving object, drivers, passengers, pedestrians, trees, me, my wife, and daughter are all at risk of death or injury because of other people's dumb decisions.

I am also concerned about having to $pay$ for (not just Max's... don't take this as a personal attack, but) other people's mistakes. Driving beyond your limits (not the car's) is one thing, but having to pay higher insurance premiums as a direct result of youthful exuberance and ignorance, however isolated, is something else entirely. Nobody reading this thread should feign ignorance when that insurance renewal notice comes in the mail. Remember threads like this one.

With that said, I am not completely devoid of guilt; I thank God that I have never injured anyone from my own stupidity and learned to do things the right way... confidence comes from experience, and there's no greater way to increase both experience and confidence in yourself and your vehicle than by taking it to the track and/or driving schools!

Reminder: You'll never see wreck postings/pix from the RX8 owners who died nor from the people they kill.
[/vent]

Thanks for posting this, Max... I hope this'll be your last, at-fault accident! Good luck with your insurance company and the car.

AQA101

First of all, glad to hear that you and your brothers didn't get injured.

It may sound stupid, but getting out alive and well from such a situation will make you a better driver and may save your live one day, maybe this was just a very good investment.

The RX-8 is a dangerous car for unexperienced drivers because it feels somewhat safe until you cross the line. It even surprises the more experienced from time to time, so training is a very good idea. I will book mine in August, since I realize this car is not only dangerous but has also great potential to escape dangerous situations, which I want to be able to use to the full extent if push comes to shove. I'm gonna do this altough I consider myself an experienced and defensive driver, you can always get better and you'll always find people who can teach you. And in case of driving we're talking about life and death, so it's definately worth it.

I hope your car will be restored completely and in time and you and your brothers just make the best out of the situation and learn from it. I think all those near-accidents that I experienced as a young driver were the strongest influence of my current driving style, which is based on the idea not to get into dangerous situations in the first place and to have maximum fun with the car where the situation allows it.

m477

Sorry about the car, but let this be a lesson to others --

If you are new to RWD it is VERY important that you take your car out to an empty parking lot and mess around doing donuts and stuff and/or try autox. Doing dounts in a parking lot may seem juvenile or reckless, but it's not - you need to know what it feels like to slide and how to recover. Practice this a few times so you get used to it. If you get into a situation where your car starts sliding unexpectedly and you have to *think* about what to do, it's probably too late.

CelticFan

Sorry about your car but I'm not surprised that it didn't total. I've already worked on a red RX-8 that was hit that bad a few moths ago. Hopefully it won't take long to fix it but getting parts on a new Mazda when they first come out can take a LONG time. So if the shop tells you that it's taking a long time because of parts they are telling you the truth.

mpt_yellowRX8

Good to know that everyone is okay. You hopefully just saved your brothers a lot of money in car repairs. I would very much look into the independant inspector/adjustor. I have never heard any good come out of a story where the car was repaired with that kind of damage. There may be some out there, but they are few and far between.

I grew up driving trucks on dirt roads and always spun the back end around in the turns, but I was ready for it and knew what to do. I once was caught off gaurd by a spin getting onto the rain-soaked interstate (I-12E to I-55N, changes from pavement to concrete and back, worst intersection in Louisiana IMO) and barely got out safely. I first slowed from the gas and countersteered but it spun to the left. I tapped on the brakes slightly, steered right, and went hard back to the right. I finally got slowed down enough to regain control, I then realized that dirt and pavement do not react even close to the same way and started to get used to the pavement slides in some abandoned subdivisions and lots. I still like to feel the back end slide around every now and then, but I know the possibilities and never get into it much at all, even though I am very confident that I can control it. However, I still see a lot of people, that think they know what they are doing, at the junk yard cleaning out their personal stuff before the insurance co. takes over.

Take a driving course and learn what the car can do, it will be a lot of fun and will teach you nearly everything you will ever need to know.

MTLbroker

The level of refinement of the 8 makes it deceiving to drive. Clutch and steering ar light, relative lack of torque, general level of quiet in the cabin, etc... mask the high performance nature of the car.

Drive a high speeds in a mustang Gt with the top down with its 'al-dente' ford fairmont frame, dead steering feel and lots of noise and commotion and you learn to be afraid of a car (I'm not knocking the 'stang. It was my last car).

The DSC and TSC are there to keep you out of trouble. I've done the Skip Barber driving school (albeit in 1989) and I still leave all the safety systems on - just like I wouldn't turn off ABS or the airbags. I've participated in some local track events - there's a local Porsche club up in my neck of the woods that sponsors track time at Mt.Tremblant circuit. I see Audi's there, BMW, M-B. also. Maybe it's a worthwhile pursuit to get other manufacturers to sponsor track time for their owners.

Glad you're OK. Thanks for posting the photos. It's a good reminder for us who get overconfident from time to time.

stanfordcole

A quick not to add. I just saw this on the web. This is kind of on topic. Crash test ratings and roll-over for RX-8 and other vehicles:
http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/07/pf/a...ex.htm?cnn=yes