New Yorker

I'm sorry! I shouldn't question the results of the owner reliability survey you've obviously conducted!! Would you be kind enough to share your raw data? You know, sample size, how you went about obtaining a random sample of all North American RX-8 owners, what confidence level your conclusions support... basic survey research stuff like that.

Thanks!!!

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

My data is as accurate as yours. Except of course there is the fact that reman plant churns out an estimated 5,000 rebuilds (corrected) a year but to you that is insignificant,

New Yorker

An "estimated" 20,000 rebuilds a year? You don't say! That's quite a claim!!! Who's estimate is that, exactly? Where did that figure come from? Hey, I know this is just the internet where anything from anyone can be a "fact," but humor me a little - I studied journalism in grad school and, well, let's just say I'd love to know your source; you know, where those figures come from. Because I know you'd never state such a dramatic fact based on something someone who's uncle who knows a guy who's brother-in-law has a cousin who works at a Mazda re-man plant said. So don't be coy; share your souce. I'd love to substantiate that figure. After all, I know you would never make such a claim based on... what do they call it? Ah yes... anecdotal evidence!

anecdotal: based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence.

Rh+positive

word

poacherinthezoo

The same could be asked for the data and statistical methods you used that lead to your conclusions on rotary engine reliability.



Only Mazda has this information, and they aren't sharing it.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

You know where my source comes from. you posted in that thread as well. Don't play dumb. And it was 5,000 a year, I just looked at the article so my bad, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still a shitload of engines since the plant opened in 2008. It's not like the RX-8 was a high volume seller so roughly 45,000 engine rebuilds and counting is a high failure rate.

For those who have not seen the article, The 5,000 engines a year comes from an article written by a local reporter in Virginia that did story about the Mazda reman plant in Virginia. I have a thread with a link to the article and discussion here. Whether the reporter was lying could be alleged but AFAIK she was granted access and the info was given to her by Mazda and there was no retraction so.........

http://www.richmond.com/business/art...f854df0b2.html

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

And a video:

Mazda expands plant in Chesterfield - Richmond.com: Business

ken-x8

Pretty impressive numbers. How many RX-8s were sold in the US? I seem to remember a number in either the 100k or 200k range. Either way the odds are sobering.

The statement in the story about bringing all parts up to spec, and the video of the Renesis assembly line, are a lot more comforting about the remans than the tales Sleepyz used to post, which gave the impression of a bunch of yahoos slapping engines together *****-nilly.

Ken

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

According to a post from Zoom44:

191,026 units　（As of the end of Nov 2011)

So..........

bthorn

I recently bought a used mazda rx8 I had a tune up done on it and then an airtake blow out now they are saying the front both side are ( something to do w the tires) pressure is under 5-10 lbs and my engine is blown but it is driveable does any of this make sense

RIWWP

iTrader: (2)

Nope!


Your tires are at 5-10psi so your engine is blown? That doesn't make any sense at all.

200.mph

iTrader: (9)

wut????????

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Can you convey exactly what they said? And who are they? And what year/mileage is the car?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

No gym for home, work out floor with 30, but is it for 20 like 30 lb when you no lift it to be for men, for 30 lbs instead? or half is 10 for 20 pounds?

UMM HOW i word this... ok u take 20 lbs no lifting for 30lb if guy, so divide 2 u dont sit, u get 10 but for guy it no 30, so 20 would be for guy if u werent a girl ?

Roytary

Can't speculate much on the renesis engine since i've swapped a REW from day 1 but Rotaries with negligent owners can result in a 100k miles dead motor, owners that doesn't add oil till scheduled oil changes and run the engine with 2qt missing for a while as an exemple can lead to prematurated death of their renesis, driving with half oil capacity = hot oil, shorter oil life. Wankel engines generally need a rebuilt earlier than an otto cycle engine but not @ 100k for sure. My aunt owned a brand new rx8 back then and sold it @ 250k kms wich equals to about 155 miles and the car was still running fine. My first car was a FD rx-7 with 50k miles on it, the ran it till 100k miles on 450whp and sold it still running strong.

skc

Car is over 11 years old on original engine with 100 000miles and counting. Done close to 100 track days and supercharged for just over 4 years.

Still running strong

stangree

We have 61,000 on our engine, the Mazda service department has been taking care of it since it was replaced under warranty when the previous engine "blew up" at 60,000 miles. The mechanics kept telling me to sell the care ASAP because the engines are not lasting more than 60,000miles. I didn't take their advice and now at 62,000 the "new" engine is not keeping the compression up and I am told to replace it again. I am also told, I am driving it the way it should be driven, no in town stop and go traffic most of the time, I have all freeway traffic to work which is most of my driving time, I run it a little higher on the RPM's before shifting. I am now looking at a class action suit for poor engineering for this rotary engine.

Loki

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for your troubles, but I'm not sure you'll get far with a class action suit on a 120,000 mile car.
Unfortunately, the dealer mechanics often know less about these engines than the owners, so their advice is not always sound. Have you had your ignition replaced, for example? That's the #1 cause of engine failure around here. Likewise "a little more" in the rpm is not enough, you need to load it up to 8000 at full throttle once in a while for maximum heat and pressure. Highway driving means you're sitting between 3000-4000 rpm for most of the life of the engine, which is great for efficiency, terrible for cleaning it out or cycling the valves that open around 5000 and 7000 RPM.

What are your actual compression test results and what symptoms are your experiencing? Your engine could be fine, crazier things have happened.

skc

Go ask a Ferrari owner how long his engine lasts

ASH8

OK, I will just go next door and ask....

InkdRotary91

04' lightning yellow 8 with 151800 on the odo! Still running beautifully

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

Good for you, but you are the exception rather than the rule.

Also, are you the original owner of the car? I run into a great number of owners who believe their engine is original and high mileage, but when I service the car I find telltale signs that the engine is either a mazda reman or a used junkyard engine that some previous owner has swapped in. All bets are off if you are not the original owner.

InkdRotary91

Unfortunately I'm not the original owner, I am the second. You are right though I have no idea if the first owner got a different engine but the owner kept up pretty good with receipts. What would be a sign?

von

Funny story and I'm also skeptical of these owners claims but even if you grant second owners their original engine claim, you still have failed engine claims far outnumber the original engine claims.

We have two forms of data to suggest rotaries are unreliable by definition. First what is considered reliable? Statistical analysis shows that the average person keeps a car for 11 years at 15k miles per year or 165k miles with 200k end of life according to New York times research. So any engine that falls short of this could be considered unreliable because it falls below average. I have empirical and Anecdotal evidence that proves Rotaries fall below this average thus by definition are unreliable. First, empirical evidence. A Mazda dealership manager told me they have replaced almost every rotary they sold minus the later models probably due to low sales numbers and low mileage on existing cars, this is recorded history by Mazda and it shouldn't take more than a few minutes to verify this claim. Then you have forum data or anecdotal evidence showing many members on this very thread admitting their second or third engine replacement, and interestingly enough are the ones defending it's reliability. Finally, mechanics like RR who prove that the few anomalies out their with 100k miles have in fact, had an engine replacement from a previous owner unknowing to them. Ok I'll grant you 100k miles, we still have a pro rotary authoritative video claiming KABOOM at 80k but I'll grant you 100k with all the anxiety of extra special care it needs to reach it and we are still at the average life of a typical engine from the 1960's according to research by the New York times. So claiming the rotary is reliable using average figures from the 1960's is not a strong case for reliability. Anyone can see, the average miles for a Rotary falls way under average for 21st century standards thus making my claim true that Rotaries are unreliable engines.

Fan boy ad hoc attacks, red herrings and other fallacies against this claim Is not proof against the motion, but rather a bitter admittance. What about Ferrari engines one asked? If you go to that forum, you will get the same exact responses I see here and pictures of 100k mile odometer readings etc. Even if your statement is true regarding Ferrari engines, at least you're getting *ussy and a smile on your face in return. The rotary is just outclassed these days. What would you call an engine that has Honda civic torque with F-150 gas mileage and 1960's reliability? Especially considering 3-500 hp cars are achieving 30+ mpg and expected engine life of 200k miles. Furthermore, low sales figures leading to cancellation and bad resale value seem to strengthen my argument on just how bad the Renesis design was and what people believe its true value to be. I'll conclude that the thread starter has not posted back in three years. Shocking.

gwilliams6

Von, be sure you make the point to differentiate between Renesis rotary engines and all other rotary engines. I have owned seven rotary cars, only one an RX8. In the six other rotary cars, one RX3, two RX4s, all three generations of RX7, I never once had a rotary engine failure and all of them, both for street and track use, had way over 100,000 miles each ,and were in perfect running order with good compression numbers when sold or traded. One of my RX7s, the one with the most HP and full mods (race modified by Racing Beat with 400hp), I actually kept running for thirteen years on the same race-ported turbocharged modified 13B engine, before I sold it.

My present 2008 40th Anniversary Edition RX8 has a little over 60,000 miles so far and i am looking forward to a long life out of its engine. 43 years of driving rotary engines, way over a million rotary miles and not even one rotary engine failure, or the unreliability you claim as fact.