Marvel Mystery Oil in renesis?
08-28-2006, 10:34 PM
#26
Lubricious
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I read about Marvel Mystery Oil back when I was flying. I guess it's got a niche in the General Aviation community. Anyway, from what I remember, there's not much to the stuff. It's an extremely lightweight oil; really more of a solvent than anything else. In addition it's got a lot of Phosphorus, which is an effective high-pressure lubricant but NOT a good thing for modern automobiles because it poisons the catalytic converter. In fact, phosphorus is being phased out of motor oils for this reason. Bad enough the Cat is getting a good dose of phosphorus from the amount of oil the rotary burns -- why double it by tossing high-phosphorus substance in the gas tank?
MMO was developed at a time when engines suffered a lot from gummy deposits in carburetors and on valves. It's solvent qualities worked well for that purpose. The phosphorus was an added bonus for "top-end lubrication". Modern gasoline and motor oil formulations have largely taken care of the gum issues as well as better materials and design for valvetrains. And the phosphorus is definitely a drawback.
MMO was developed at a time when engines suffered a lot from gummy deposits in carburetors and on valves. It's solvent qualities worked well for that purpose. The phosphorus was an added bonus for "top-end lubrication". Modern gasoline and motor oil formulations have largely taken care of the gum issues as well as better materials and design for valvetrains. And the phosphorus is definitely a drawback.
08-29-2006, 02:50 AM
#27
Klingon Grammarian
I discovered Marvel Mystery Oil when somebody recommended it for my motorcycle. I used it some; not sure if it helped, didn't seem to hurt. Motorcycle is piston, no catalytic converter, so does it make any sense to use it there?
08-29-2006, 12:23 PM
#28
Anatomy of a corner...
The first gen section of rx7club.com highly recommends it (at least when I frequented it). I've personally used it in my first gens and noticed a slight increase in mileage. Also, my carb was cleaner upon teardown. I know of first gens that run around with the OPM drawing MMO (instead of regular oil) from a special container. They seem to be running fine and strong.
For carbon locked engines they use the ATF or MMO trick. ATF fouls up the plugs, while many claim that MMO will burn right off.
I'm just wondering if I've been going wrong with MMO (along with many first gen owners). My 85 RX7 with ~200k miles has been fed MMO for several years and is still running strong. The 8 has yet to taste MMO...
FS
For carbon locked engines they use the ATF or MMO trick. ATF fouls up the plugs, while many claim that MMO will burn right off.
I'm just wondering if I've been going wrong with MMO (along with many first gen owners). My 85 RX7 with ~200k miles has been fed MMO for several years and is still running strong. The 8 has yet to taste MMO...
FS
08-30-2006, 02:15 AM
#30
Klingon Grammarian
Originally Posted by Razz1
Used it all the time in my Harley with no problems.
Only kidding, I appreciate the info. Did you find it did any good?
08-30-2006, 02:46 AM
#31
Xylene is also said to increase gas mileage.
I'm wondering if the gas mileage increase from Marvel Mystery Oil is related to the combination of ingredients that it has. Supposedly, naphtha and wintergreen, are among the ingredients of Marvel Mystery Oil.
The "detergent effect" of Marvel Mystery Oil seems to be well proven, but I wonder if there is some ingredient in MMO, that also has a positive effect on gas mileage.
I'm also wondering if the combination of Xylene and MMO is having the positive effect. Boosting octane and adding a strong "detergent" at the same time.
I'm wondering if the gas mileage increase from Marvel Mystery Oil is related to the combination of ingredients that it has. Supposedly, naphtha and wintergreen, are among the ingredients of Marvel Mystery Oil.
The "detergent effect" of Marvel Mystery Oil seems to be well proven, but I wonder if there is some ingredient in MMO, that also has a positive effect on gas mileage.
I'm also wondering if the combination of Xylene and MMO is having the positive effect. Boosting octane and adding a strong "detergent" at the same time.
08-30-2006, 02:59 PM
#33
Registered
Originally Posted by Im_DANomite
i'm never going to oil my tools again... 
09-27-2006, 01:12 PM
#34
MMO is a FINE premix for a rotary. I built a new motor for my rx7, and ran MMO as premix since day one( ran NO metering oil pump). Sold it at 38,000 miles on the motor and it still ran like a champ. This car was used as a daily driver, enless nights of taking twisties, and countless times at the drag strip. Using MMO is PERFECT for the rotary engine. Dont let anybody tell you otherwise.
09-28-2006, 12:29 AM
#35
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I have a 04 A/T that after 20k of 87oct needs 91oct or it will ping. Do you think MMO will clean the carbon deposits and I can go back to reg-87? Should I add it to gas or oil? Will it hurt it? What do you think, I have 30k now.
09-28-2006, 02:41 AM
#36
SymSym
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The manual says to use 95 octane in Australia, which I think is 91 or 93 in the USA. THis helps with preventing predetonation of the air fuel mixture, but it also has better detergents added, which keep your engine clean. I feel that long term use of lower quality fuels may cause deposits to build up in combustion chambers and may lead to premature failure of the rotary's apex seals. I am sure cars will run well for a period of time on lower octane fuels, it is just that I am worried about the longevity of the motor on lower quality fuel. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
09-28-2006, 04:05 PM
#37
rotorized!!!
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So to retake the topic now that it's gotten some good discussion and answers made to it... what would be better to use, MMO or 2-stroke oil for premix with the gas? The seem to cost about the same if you buy them in larger volumes.
09-30-2006, 09:57 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by dgrx8
i have the recall done & premix w/ amsoil synthetic 2 stroke...
but, i use SEA FOAM every oil change to clean out any carbon buildup...
but, i use SEA FOAM every oil change to clean out any carbon buildup...
08-07-2007, 12:38 AM
#45
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You'd be better off using mineral spirits and some benzene. MMO is just snake oil...
And just in case you didn't know what naphthenic hydrocarbons are:
In other words, wax mud
Material Safety Data Sheet
SECTION I - Material Identity
SECTION II - Manufacturer's Information
SECTION III - Physical/Chemical Characteristics
SECTION IV - Fire and Explosion Hazard Data
SECTION V - Reactivity Data
SECTION VI - Health Hazard Data
SECTION VII - Precautions for Safe Handling and Use
SECTION VIII - Control Measures
SECTION IX - Label Data
SECTION X - Transportation Data
SECTION XI - Site Specific/Reporting Information
SECTION XII - Ingredients/Identity Information
SECTION I - Material Identity
Item Name
Part Number/Trade Name MARVEL MYSTERY OIL/LUBRICATING OIL
National Stock Number 9150011264459
CAGE Code 95015
Part Number Indicator A
MSDS Number 194363
HAZ Code B
SECTION II - Manufacturer's Information
Manufacturer Name THE MARVEL OIL COMPANY, INC
Street 5655 W 73RD STREET
City CHICAGO
State IL
Country US
Zip Code 60638
Emergency Phone 708-563-3766
Information Phone 708-563-3766
MSDS Preparer's Information
Date MSDS Prepared/Revised 13FEB01
Active Indicator Y
Alternate Vendors
SECTION III - Physical/Chemical Characteristics
Appearance/Odor CLEAR AMBER LIQUID
Boiling Point 341.6 F
Melting Point N/A
Vapor Pressure 5
Vapor Density N/D
Specific Gravity 0.876
Evaporation Rate N/P
Solubility in Water INSOLUBLE
Percent Volatiles by Volume 25
Chemical pH N/D
Corrosion Rate N/P
Container Pressure Code 1
Temperature Code 4
Product State Code L
SECTION IV - Fire and Explosion Hazard Data
Flash Point Method UNK
SECTION V - Reactivity Data
Stability YES
Stability Conditions to Avoid NONE KNOWN
Materials to Avoid STRONG OXIDIZING AGENTS
Hazardous Decomposition Products CARBON MONOXIDE, CARBON DIOXIDE AND HYDROCARBONS
Hazardous Polymerization NO
Polymerization Conditions to Avoid WILL NOT OCCUR
SECTION VI - Health Hazard Data
Route of Entry: Skin YES
Route of Entry: Inhalation YES
Health Hazards - Acute and Chronic [INGEST] CAN CAUSE GASTRIONTESTINAL IRRITATION, NAUSEA, VO ITING, AND DIARRHEA. ASPIRATION INTO LUNGS CAN CAUSE PNEUMONITIS WHICH CAN BE FATAL.[SKIN] IRRITATION. DEFATTING OR DERMATITIS [INHALE] NASAL AND RESPIRATORY IRRITATION, DIZZINESS, WEAKENSS, FATIGUE, NAUSEA, HEADACHE, POSSIBEL UNCONSCIOUSNESS AND EVEN ASPHYXIATION [EYE] IRRITATION, REDNESS, TEARING OR BLURRED VISION
Carcinogenity: NTP NO
Carcinogenity: IARC NO
Carcinogenity: OSHA NO
Symptoms of Overexposure SEE ABOVE
Medical Cond. Aggrevated by Exposure N/P
Emergency/First Aid Procedures [INGEST] DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING GET MED. ATTN. ASPIRATON OF MATERIAL INTO LUNGS CAN CAUSE CHEMICAL PNEUMONITIS WHICH CAN BE FATAL[SKIN]WASH EXPOSED AREA WITH SOAP AND WATER REMOVE CONTAMINATED CLOTHING LAUNDER BEFORE REUSE[INHALE] MOVE TO FRESH AIR. IF BREATHING DIFFICULT, ADMINISTER OXYGEN IS BREATHING HAS STOPPED, GIVE ARTIFICIAL RESPIRATION, KEEP PERSON WARM. [EYES] FLUSH WITH WATER FOR 15 MIN. LIFTING EYELIDS GET MED. ATTN
SECTION VII - Precautions for Safe Handling and Use
Steps if Material Released/Spilled VENTILATE AREA, REMOVE SOURCES OF IGNITION, PREVENT ENTRY INTO SEWERS AND WATERWAYS. PICK UP FREE LIQUID FOR RECYCLE AND/OR DISPOSAL. ABOSRB SMALL AMTS. ON INERT MATERIAL FOR DISPOSAL
Waste Disposal Method IN ACCORDANCE WITH STATE, LOCAL, AND FEDERAL REGULATIONS
Handling and Storage Precautions NONE LISTED
Other Precautions NONE LISTED
SECTION VIII - Control Measures
Respiratory Protection IF EXPOSURE LEVELS EXCEED THOSE ESTABLISHED USE APPROVED AIR SUPPLIED RESPIRATOR IN ABSENCE OF PROPER ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROLS
Ventilation PROVIDE SUFFICIENT VENTILATION TO AVOID EXPOSURE LEVELS ABOVE ESTABLISHED TLV'S
Protective Gloves CHEMICAL RESISTANT
Eye Protection SPLASH GOGGLES
Other Protective Equipment IMPERVIOUS CLOTHING
Work Hygenic Practices WASH HANDS THOROUGHLY AFTER USE
SECTION IX - Label Data
Protect Eye YES
Protect Skin YES
Protect Respiratory NO
Chronic Indicator UNKNOWN
Contact Code UNKNOWN
Fire Code UNKNOWN
Health Code UNKNOWN
React Code UNKNOWN
SECTION X - Transportation Data
Container Quantity 1
Unit of Measure QT
SECTION XI - Site Specific/Reporting Information
Volatile Organic Compounds (P/G) 0
Volatile Organic Compounds (G/L) 0
SECTION XII - Ingredients/Identity Information
Ingredient # 01
Ingredient Name BENZENE, 1,2-DICHLORO-
CAS Number 95501
Ingredient # 02
Ingredient Name MINERAL SPIRITS
CAS Number 8052413
Ingredient # 03
Ingredient Name NAPTHENIC HYDROCARBONS
CAS Number 64742525
SECTION I - Material Identity
SECTION II - Manufacturer's Information
SECTION III - Physical/Chemical Characteristics
SECTION IV - Fire and Explosion Hazard Data
SECTION V - Reactivity Data
SECTION VI - Health Hazard Data
SECTION VII - Precautions for Safe Handling and Use
SECTION VIII - Control Measures
SECTION IX - Label Data
SECTION X - Transportation Data
SECTION XI - Site Specific/Reporting Information
SECTION XII - Ingredients/Identity Information
SECTION I - Material Identity
Item Name
Part Number/Trade Name MARVEL MYSTERY OIL/LUBRICATING OIL
National Stock Number 9150011264459
CAGE Code 95015
Part Number Indicator A
MSDS Number 194363
HAZ Code B
SECTION II - Manufacturer's Information
Manufacturer Name THE MARVEL OIL COMPANY, INC
Street 5655 W 73RD STREET
City CHICAGO
State IL
Country US
Zip Code 60638
Emergency Phone 708-563-3766
Information Phone 708-563-3766
MSDS Preparer's Information
Date MSDS Prepared/Revised 13FEB01
Active Indicator Y
Alternate Vendors
SECTION III - Physical/Chemical Characteristics
Appearance/Odor CLEAR AMBER LIQUID
Boiling Point 341.6 F
Melting Point N/A
Vapor Pressure 5
Vapor Density N/D
Specific Gravity 0.876
Evaporation Rate N/P
Solubility in Water INSOLUBLE
Percent Volatiles by Volume 25
Chemical pH N/D
Corrosion Rate N/P
Container Pressure Code 1
Temperature Code 4
Product State Code L
SECTION IV - Fire and Explosion Hazard Data
Flash Point Method UNK
SECTION V - Reactivity Data
Stability YES
Stability Conditions to Avoid NONE KNOWN
Materials to Avoid STRONG OXIDIZING AGENTS
Hazardous Decomposition Products CARBON MONOXIDE, CARBON DIOXIDE AND HYDROCARBONS
Hazardous Polymerization NO
Polymerization Conditions to Avoid WILL NOT OCCUR
SECTION VI - Health Hazard Data
Route of Entry: Skin YES
Route of Entry: Inhalation YES
Health Hazards - Acute and Chronic [INGEST] CAN CAUSE GASTRIONTESTINAL IRRITATION, NAUSEA, VO ITING, AND DIARRHEA. ASPIRATION INTO LUNGS CAN CAUSE PNEUMONITIS WHICH CAN BE FATAL.[SKIN] IRRITATION. DEFATTING OR DERMATITIS [INHALE] NASAL AND RESPIRATORY IRRITATION, DIZZINESS, WEAKENSS, FATIGUE, NAUSEA, HEADACHE, POSSIBEL UNCONSCIOUSNESS AND EVEN ASPHYXIATION [EYE] IRRITATION, REDNESS, TEARING OR BLURRED VISION
Carcinogenity: NTP NO
Carcinogenity: IARC NO
Carcinogenity: OSHA NO
Symptoms of Overexposure SEE ABOVE
Medical Cond. Aggrevated by Exposure N/P
Emergency/First Aid Procedures [INGEST] DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING GET MED. ATTN. ASPIRATON OF MATERIAL INTO LUNGS CAN CAUSE CHEMICAL PNEUMONITIS WHICH CAN BE FATAL[SKIN]WASH EXPOSED AREA WITH SOAP AND WATER REMOVE CONTAMINATED CLOTHING LAUNDER BEFORE REUSE[INHALE] MOVE TO FRESH AIR. IF BREATHING DIFFICULT, ADMINISTER OXYGEN IS BREATHING HAS STOPPED, GIVE ARTIFICIAL RESPIRATION, KEEP PERSON WARM. [EYES] FLUSH WITH WATER FOR 15 MIN. LIFTING EYELIDS GET MED. ATTN
SECTION VII - Precautions for Safe Handling and Use
Steps if Material Released/Spilled VENTILATE AREA, REMOVE SOURCES OF IGNITION, PREVENT ENTRY INTO SEWERS AND WATERWAYS. PICK UP FREE LIQUID FOR RECYCLE AND/OR DISPOSAL. ABOSRB SMALL AMTS. ON INERT MATERIAL FOR DISPOSAL
Waste Disposal Method IN ACCORDANCE WITH STATE, LOCAL, AND FEDERAL REGULATIONS
Handling and Storage Precautions NONE LISTED
Other Precautions NONE LISTED
SECTION VIII - Control Measures
Respiratory Protection IF EXPOSURE LEVELS EXCEED THOSE ESTABLISHED USE APPROVED AIR SUPPLIED RESPIRATOR IN ABSENCE OF PROPER ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROLS
Ventilation PROVIDE SUFFICIENT VENTILATION TO AVOID EXPOSURE LEVELS ABOVE ESTABLISHED TLV'S
Protective Gloves CHEMICAL RESISTANT
Eye Protection SPLASH GOGGLES
Other Protective Equipment IMPERVIOUS CLOTHING
Work Hygenic Practices WASH HANDS THOROUGHLY AFTER USE
SECTION IX - Label Data
Protect Eye YES
Protect Skin YES
Protect Respiratory NO
Chronic Indicator UNKNOWN
Contact Code UNKNOWN
Fire Code UNKNOWN
Health Code UNKNOWN
React Code UNKNOWN
SECTION X - Transportation Data
Container Quantity 1
Unit of Measure QT
SECTION XI - Site Specific/Reporting Information
Volatile Organic Compounds (P/G) 0
Volatile Organic Compounds (G/L) 0
SECTION XII - Ingredients/Identity Information
Ingredient # 01
Ingredient Name BENZENE, 1,2-DICHLORO-
CAS Number 95501
Ingredient # 02
Ingredient Name MINERAL SPIRITS
CAS Number 8052413
Ingredient # 03
Ingredient Name NAPTHENIC HYDROCARBONS
CAS Number 64742525
Naphthenic Hydrocarbon
1. n. [Drilling Fluids] ID: 2135
A type of organic compound of carbon and hydrogen that contains one or more saturated cyclic (ring) structures, or contains such structures as a major portion of the molecule. The general formula is CnH2n. Naphthenic compounds are sometimes called naphthenes, cycloparaffins or hydrogenated benzenes. Naphtha is a refined petroleum fraction that contains a high percentage of these types of hydrocarbons. In drilling fluids, particularly oil-base muds, the amounts and types of hydrocarbons in the mud can be an important parameter in the overall performance of the mud.
1. n. [Drilling Fluids] ID: 2135
A type of organic compound of carbon and hydrogen that contains one or more saturated cyclic (ring) structures, or contains such structures as a major portion of the molecule. The general formula is CnH2n. Naphthenic compounds are sometimes called naphthenes, cycloparaffins or hydrogenated benzenes. Naphtha is a refined petroleum fraction that contains a high percentage of these types of hydrocarbons. In drilling fluids, particularly oil-base muds, the amounts and types of hydrocarbons in the mud can be an important parameter in the overall performance of the mud.
08-07-2007, 12:59 AM
#46
Lubricious
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MMO was developed back in the days when gum and varnish were big problems for piston engines. So, it is primarily a solvent. It also contains a large amount of phosphorus, which can be a good high-pressure additive but unfortunately is bad for catalytic converters. But there is really not much oil in Marvel Misery Oil.
08-07-2007, 01:32 PM
#47
Rotared
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The manual says to use 95 octane in Australia, which I think is 91 or 93 in the USA. THis helps with preventing predetonation of the air fuel mixture, but it also has better detergents added, which keep your engine clean. I feel that long term use of lower quality fuels may cause deposits to build up in combustion chambers and may lead to premature failure of the rotary's apex seals. I am sure cars will run well for a period of time on lower octane fuels, it is just that I am worried about the longevity of the motor on lower quality fuel. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this?
I highly doubt the 87 will hurt the Renesis. The S5 89-91 rx7 had 9.7:1 compression and did better on 87 than 93. My 8 only gets 87 and it redlines daily. I am tired of hearing about pinging and detonation on the renesis motors. I get 17-18 mpg in town as well. Its been to the track on 87.
On the MMO subject there is no need for it in the 8. If you wanna premix 2 stroke oil go for it. Just more lubrication for the apex seals.
This motor likes rpms. I think the sweet spot on my car is inbetween 6500 and 8300 rpms.
I think a little history of the rotary would do some folks favors. Lurk on over to 7club or better yet nopistions and do some searching. Info on 7 club isn't always accurate.
I have owned FB,FC,FD, and FE now. There is nothing that new other than the new manifolds, increased runner and port size. I am not the biggest fan of the sound of the side port exhaust as I like the old pp exaust ports. All the motors are very similar and if you can maintain one you can handle the rest. Especially after messing w/ FD's. They can be a little needy do to the complexity of the turbos and heat they produce.
There is my rant.
08-07-2007, 05:54 PM
#48
Glad I caught this thread!!
In my old first gen rx7, i started its life with a freshly rebuilt motor, and I put 35,000 miles on that motor before I sold the car.... PREMIXING MMO WITH NO OMP since day one.
You know what? That motor was clean as hell if you looked through the exhaust ports, and ran as great as it did when I finished the breakin period. I drove that car HARD... many many many passes of drag racing in its life.
MMO WORKS as a premix, and its a damn nice one. I just dont know what it does to the octane rating. In my TII I use 2 stroke instead, just as a saftey precaution because I cant have the octane rating dipping, whereas in the old N/A rotaries, the lower octane fuel you could get, the better. Oldschool rotary racers used to have special low octane fuel brought in.
In my old first gen rx7, i started its life with a freshly rebuilt motor, and I put 35,000 miles on that motor before I sold the car.... PREMIXING MMO WITH NO OMP since day one.
You know what? That motor was clean as hell if you looked through the exhaust ports, and ran as great as it did when I finished the breakin period. I drove that car HARD... many many many passes of drag racing in its life.
MMO WORKS as a premix, and its a damn nice one. I just dont know what it does to the octane rating. In my TII I use 2 stroke instead, just as a saftey precaution because I cant have the octane rating dipping, whereas in the old N/A rotaries, the lower octane fuel you could get, the better. Oldschool rotary racers used to have special low octane fuel brought in.
08-07-2007, 06:29 PM
#49
James C. Arthur, RN
Wow...use MMO, 2 stroke, High octane, Low octane...how about some Milk of Mag to get all the CRAP out of your car!!!
Me? I run hard and long (hmmm, wait, that sounds a little like 2 stroke...although I need a few more than just 2) everyday!
Unless I hear that little buzzer reminding me I've still got 2k more RPMs left before she blows (uh oh, no, wait, that didn't sound right either) I know I won't have a good day. LOL!
Glad to see when someone posts a question, that we can ALL come to an agreement. The agreement to agree to disagree...
Me? I run hard and long (hmmm, wait, that sounds a little like 2 stroke...although I need a few more than just 2) everyday!
Unless I hear that little buzzer reminding me I've still got 2k more RPMs left before she blows (uh oh, no, wait, that didn't sound right either) I know I won't have a good day. LOL!
Glad to see when someone posts a question, that we can ALL come to an agreement. The agreement to agree to disagree...
