Little Perspective on Speed...
12-01-2004, 03:48 PM
#1
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
Little Perspective on Speed...
I'm coming from an unusal car background. My current car (for sale!!!) is a 93 Miata. The car during and before my Miata was a 93 Ford Probe GT. From participation in both of those owners groups I can tell you one thing we all shared; A feeling that Ford and/or Mazda let us down in the power department.
For the Probe, we were pissed because model-year to model-year it was as fast as a Mustang GT - and would have been FASTER if Ford had allowed for Mazda's 200hp version of the V6 used in the car (we had a 164hp version). Remember, this was at a time when 5.0's were rated at 220hp. A time where running 15 flat in the 1/4 mile was considered 'quick'. In the late 90s - just as production of the car was being ended, the aftermarket world started taking off. There was a time where Probe Owners had the choice of two brands of Exhausts, about two brands of Air Intakes, and three brands of headers. That's about it. Guys were struggling to get to 160hp at the front wheels. When we heard reports of guys breaking into the 14s, without N2O, etc, we'd all be suspicious. I remember several years ago while working as an Admin on Probetalk.com a guy came in and claimed with i/h/e + LSD and slicks, he was running mid-high 13s with is probe. I called BS on him - as did 98% of the others. Eventually I banned him because I just KNEW he was full of crap.
I was wrong. Yup. Just plain wrong. After several members of the board saw, and video'd his runs, I emailed him to offer an apology. Since that time, however, people have been boosting the cars - I had one boosted w/ 8psi for awhile (248hp/260lb-ft at the wheels); before selling in October of 2003. When my car's turbo system was complete, it was among the top few highest HP 2nd Generation Probes known. I think it may have been THE highest, internally stock PGT.
Generally, however, in the early years, people would lament about being 'screwed' by Ford because the car wasn't blessed with more power. We'd point to JSpec versions and cry "what about them???"
The miata world is much the same. There were/are guys complaining about how the miata has more chassis than power. Fortunately, most any go-fast part anyone needs can now be found thanks to the likes of FlyinMiata.com and Jackson Racing, and Racing beat to some extent (I Have their header and exhaust on my car - I LOVE it!). But even with that, the car is pretty slow. Even the 142hp versions, or the Mazdaspeed cars aren't impressive. Frankly, my 1.6L with an $800, 7psi GReddy turbo would put down as much power to the wheels as the new MS Miata.
Both of these platforms required one thing before people started making lots of power with them. Well, two things. But mostly one.
Time.
Nowadays the numbers my car made aren't a big deal with 400whp Ford Probes are not unheard of. 500whp Miatas are plentiful. Given time, and a market for products, companies WILL solve the RX8 power issues. There'll be a day where Canzoomer has figured out the magic bits of code which give the car 50whp plug-and-play. Eventually, the bugs will be sorted out, and Companies will make hundreds of thousands of dollars selling to an eager crowd. There'll be a day when a newbie joins the forum and asks "Y0! I just got dis PHAT RX8, and I want more power!!". Chances are Mugatu will reply with something like 'Search, you lazy-***...there are SOO many things around which can give your car 50hp in the blink of an eye. There are several quality boost systems, too!"
So - I wrote all that to say "Relax". If you enjoy the car, fine. If you don't enjoy the car, either wait around for the aftermarket to catch up, or sell the damn thing. It doesn't hurt my feelings - or likely anyones' feelings on this forum - if you decide it's not the car for you.
See, there are Car Enthusiasts and there are People who have to have the BEST car. For the second group, they couldn't THINK of the car they have being 2nd or 4th or 8th best. They are unable to love or enjoy a car knowing another car may do one or two things 'better' or 'faster' than theirs.
Suffering thru the dark days of Probe Peformance - where names like Michel Fortier, Ross Lapkoff, and Dan Dunham were cult-heros, and then the hum-drums of my current 'chick' car, I've learned to enjoy my car because it makes ME feel good while driving it - NOT because it can or can't beat the guy next to me.
For the Probe, we were pissed because model-year to model-year it was as fast as a Mustang GT - and would have been FASTER if Ford had allowed for Mazda's 200hp version of the V6 used in the car (we had a 164hp version). Remember, this was at a time when 5.0's were rated at 220hp. A time where running 15 flat in the 1/4 mile was considered 'quick'. In the late 90s - just as production of the car was being ended, the aftermarket world started taking off. There was a time where Probe Owners had the choice of two brands of Exhausts, about two brands of Air Intakes, and three brands of headers. That's about it. Guys were struggling to get to 160hp at the front wheels. When we heard reports of guys breaking into the 14s, without N2O, etc, we'd all be suspicious. I remember several years ago while working as an Admin on Probetalk.com a guy came in and claimed with i/h/e + LSD and slicks, he was running mid-high 13s with is probe. I called BS on him - as did 98% of the others. Eventually I banned him because I just KNEW he was full of crap.
I was wrong. Yup. Just plain wrong. After several members of the board saw, and video'd his runs, I emailed him to offer an apology. Since that time, however, people have been boosting the cars - I had one boosted w/ 8psi for awhile (248hp/260lb-ft at the wheels); before selling in October of 2003. When my car's turbo system was complete, it was among the top few highest HP 2nd Generation Probes known. I think it may have been THE highest, internally stock PGT.
Generally, however, in the early years, people would lament about being 'screwed' by Ford because the car wasn't blessed with more power. We'd point to JSpec versions and cry "what about them???"
The miata world is much the same. There were/are guys complaining about how the miata has more chassis than power. Fortunately, most any go-fast part anyone needs can now be found thanks to the likes of FlyinMiata.com and Jackson Racing, and Racing beat to some extent (I Have their header and exhaust on my car - I LOVE it!). But even with that, the car is pretty slow. Even the 142hp versions, or the Mazdaspeed cars aren't impressive. Frankly, my 1.6L with an $800, 7psi GReddy turbo would put down as much power to the wheels as the new MS Miata.
Both of these platforms required one thing before people started making lots of power with them. Well, two things. But mostly one.
Time.
Nowadays the numbers my car made aren't a big deal with 400whp Ford Probes are not unheard of. 500whp Miatas are plentiful. Given time, and a market for products, companies WILL solve the RX8 power issues. There'll be a day where Canzoomer has figured out the magic bits of code which give the car 50whp plug-and-play. Eventually, the bugs will be sorted out, and Companies will make hundreds of thousands of dollars selling to an eager crowd. There'll be a day when a newbie joins the forum and asks "Y0! I just got dis PHAT RX8, and I want more power!!". Chances are Mugatu will reply with something like 'Search, you lazy-***...there are SOO many things around which can give your car 50hp in the blink of an eye. There are several quality boost systems, too!"
So - I wrote all that to say "Relax". If you enjoy the car, fine. If you don't enjoy the car, either wait around for the aftermarket to catch up, or sell the damn thing. It doesn't hurt my feelings - or likely anyones' feelings on this forum - if you decide it's not the car for you.
See, there are Car Enthusiasts and there are People who have to have the BEST car. For the second group, they couldn't THINK of the car they have being 2nd or 4th or 8th best. They are unable to love or enjoy a car knowing another car may do one or two things 'better' or 'faster' than theirs.
Suffering thru the dark days of Probe Peformance - where names like Michel Fortier, Ross Lapkoff, and Dan Dunham were cult-heros, and then the hum-drums of my current 'chick' car, I've learned to enjoy my car because it makes ME feel good while driving it - NOT because it can or can't beat the guy next to me.
12-01-2004, 04:09 PM
#2
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:D Best thread I have read today. I agree, the 8 is still too new not alot of aftermarket vendors has worked out all the bugs yet. The minute they come out with reliable performance parts alot of owners would want it.
12-01-2004, 05:28 PM
#4
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See, there are Car Enthusiasts and there are People who have to have the BEST car. For the second group, they couldn't THINK of the car they have being 2nd or 4th or 8th best. They are unable to love or enjoy a car knowing another car may do one or two things 'better' or 'faster' than theirs.
Suffering thru the dark days of Probe Peformance - where names like Michel Fortier, Ross Lapkoff, and Dan Dunham were cult-heros, and then the hum-drums of my current 'chick' car, I've learned to enjoy my car because it makes ME feel good while driving it - NOT because it can or can't beat the guy next to me.
Suffering thru the dark days of Probe Peformance - where names like Michel Fortier, Ross Lapkoff, and Dan Dunham were cult-heros, and then the hum-drums of my current 'chick' car, I've learned to enjoy my car because it makes ME feel good while driving it - NOT because it can or can't beat the guy next to me.
I currently own a 1994 Probe GT and I got it way along in it's life but I could still tell that FORD punked out on this car. They originally thought to build a car to replace the Mustang but made it FWD and then stuck a I-4 and later a V6 in it with cheap HP.
This car had so much potential and was called one of the best FWD handling cars ever, along with the NX2000 (which was my first car)...yet FORD never really loved the car as it should have.
Before I saw the RX8 I seriously thought of droping the Mustang Mach 1 4.6L V8 into my Probe and changeing it to RWD of course. Was this just a dream...probably, but I really considered it because being old and all...I really like my Probe GT.
I fell in love with the car back in HS but I could not afford it. I finally got it and I could see that not only was it good looking, handled very well, it was fun to drive also. But...FORD punked out...
In regards to the RX8, I agree 100%! Relax people...RELAX...with time, and TIME only, they will be making 500HP RX8's...and then we will have not only the best looking car (well, one of them at least) on the road...but a SUPER CAR with usable back seats.
dmp...again I say...GREAT JOB!!!
12-01-2004, 05:38 PM
#5
They Come At Night
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I think the reason the Probe and Mustang hp stayed the same was because the Probe was supposed to be the new Mustang (and I mean, not to take it's place in the market, but have the Mustang badge), but the Mustang crowd wouldn't go for it.
12-01-2004, 06:06 PM
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but the Mustang crowd wouldn't go for it.
12-01-2004, 07:44 PM
#8
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
Well...12 years later and they still have not made a Mustang that looked better than the Probe. I wonder what a 300HP Probe could do...weighing 2800 pounds...FORD...FORD...FORD
Mine did 13.1 @ 107mph - interior bits/exhaust removed...
I've got a vid of me hitting 13.8 @ 106 in full interior, M+S Rated tires, etc. Car weighed something like 3100-3150 with me in it.
:D
12-01-2004, 08:28 PM
#10
RX8 and a Truk....
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by rx8wannahave
WOW! What a great time...I wish...I just wish...
Don't be so sure. Frankly, I sold the car because it went from a car that I LOVE to drive, and became a "project". I'm tired of messing with cars frankly - I want a car that is stock, but performs nicely over a broad range of measurements. And seats 4. And looks cool. :D
hehe
12-01-2004, 08:40 PM
#12
A Torque-Free Zone
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Originally Posted by dmp
I want a car that is stock, but performs nicely over a broad range of measurements. And seats 4. And looks cool. :D
hehe
hehe
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