nycgps

iTrader: (1)

uhh oh ~ you just made your dealership super duper ACME whatever unhappy ! you are SO gonna get that big FAT DENIAL ... if you ... mmm ... u know.

Digger1911

Olddragger
http://www.krexinc.com/wp-content/up...yCard-2010.pdf

LIMITS OF LIABILITY:

replacement benefits shall not exceed $5,000.00 during the term of this warranty. For a vehicle that had been driven more than 5,000 miles and less than 24,000 miles at the time
of the initial installation of Krex Graphite, the total liability for all covered parts and labor repair/replacement benefits shall not exceed $3,750.00 during the term of this warranty. For
a vehicle that had been driven 24,000 miles or more, but less than 50,000 miles at the time of the initial installation of Krex Graphite, the total liability for all covered parts and labor
repair/replacement benefits shall not exceed $2,000.00 during the term of this warranty. Replacement parts will be of like kind and quality and may include new, remanufactured or
used parts at our discretion. Labor time allowances will be based on factory flat rate guides for your year, make and model vehicle.

WHAT THIS WARRANTY DOES NOT COVER:

appointed by Krex should you be unable to return to the issuing

Bladecutter

Yeah, even more reason not to put that crap into any vehicle I'm responsible for.

Seriously, why do people think these things offer any benefit to the engine after all these years? How come only this one dealership offers this service? If it was so good, wouldn't FORD itself require this additive be added at every oil change, and say so in the owners manual?

Whoever posted this, think about it for a couple of minutes, and after that fails you, call Ford Corporate, and ask them if you should be adding this crap to your car, like your dealer claims you should. I can guarantee you that they will say no. They will probably send a cease and desist letter to their dealer right afterwards, and tell them to stop doing it, potentially causing them losses in the future that the dealer themselves will just pass on to FORD to pay, instead of forking out the cash to fix their customers cars that they fucked up themselves with those worthless products.

Seriously, if you can't see why this is a bad idea in all of your vehicles, call FORD and ask them what they think of adding a graphite additive to your engine.

BC.

fyrstormer

If your logic were correct, it would apply just as effectively to cold-air intakes, turbocharger kits, and aftermarket tires. After all, the manufacturer knew what they were doing when they specced those parts, and how many owners really have more expertise than a team of automotive engineers?

KREX is a bad idea in a rotary engine because the seals are lubricated via tiny oil ports that can easily clog with debris, and even if the oil ports don't clog, introducing extra carbon into the combustion chamber will just make the engine choke on its own soot faster. I'm not going to say it's a bad idea in every engine ever made, just because car manufacturers don't spec it from the factory. Car manufacturers didn't spec cold-air intakes for a long time, but aftermarket CAIs have significant benefits on cars that don't have them stock.

Engine internals tend to be less beneficial to customize as compared to other parts of a car, because all engines exist for the exact same purpose -- generating torque -- whereas other parts of a car may exist for significantly different purposes. (racing suspension vs. off-road suspension, for instance.) So advice that holds true for one engine can be safely applied to almost all other engines, but the rotary is a very unique design and a lot of piston-engine advice *doesn't* apply to rotaries. I've used particulate additives in piston engines before and had good results, but I wouldn't try it in a rotary, for reasons I explained on the previous page.

Bladecutter

I can't tell.
Are you agreeing with me, or disagreeing with me?

As we know, the vast majority of aftermarket intakes that people slap on all sorts of different cars don't do anything for overall day to day driving performance, and some, like for the RX-8, actually decrease performance.

With that, there are some aftermarket tires on the market that will ruid the driving dynamics of a car, by either making the car feel like its riding on melting marshmallows, or feel like the tires are made out of wood.

And as for aftermarket turbochargers, all it takes is one bad chinese turbo, and you have a ruined engine when it blows to kingdom come, and shrapnel destroys the engine internals.

So, I can't tell if you're agreeing that you should leave things alone as far as oil additives, or if you seem to think there's an actual oil additive that improves engine longevity out there somewhere, and this stuff is one of them.

BC.

Krex, Inc.

First, let me start by saying thank you for your inquiry regarding Krex Graphite Engine Lubricant.

Yes, you are correct that the unique rotor design of the rotary engine does mandate good lubrication, especially on the apex seals. Our graphite engine lubricant can assist with this. We have many Mazda dealerships that have been using and recommending our lubricant for years.

You are also correct that today's gasolines have less lubrication. The elimination of lead - which was originally added to prevent engine knocking - robbed gasoline of most of its lubricating quality.

Interestingly, Krex Graphite Engine Lubricant was originally designed so that half of the bottle would be added to the oil and half of the bottle would be added to the fuel. By adding it to the fuel, it enables the graphite to pass through the intake to coat and protect the upper combustion chamber (of a standard engine). Similarly, by passing through the intake of a rotary engine, it enables the graphite to quickly reach the apex seals to coat and protect them. This further improves the compression created in the rotary engine.

Here is how Krex Graphite Engine Lubricant works:
Krex Graphite Engine Lubricant® is a superior automotive lubricant (NOT an additive), dispersing millions of microscopic particles of graphite that enhance the effectiveness of motor oil. Krex Graphite Engine Lubricant adheres to all of the internal components of the engine, protecting and lubricating all the engine’s vital moving parts. Today’s advanced automotive engines reach temperatures as high as 1,250° F, yet standard motor oil begins breaking down at 350° F. (Even the best full synthetic motor oil available today begins breaking down at 500o F.) Thus, only graphite, which can withstand temperatures up to 5,000° F, can fully protect engines at these extreme temperatures. In addition, Krex Graphite Engine Lubricant improves engine compression, reduces energy consumption, and increases load-carrying capabilities. To learn more, watch this video: Krex Graphite Engine Lubricant - YouTube

In fact, our graphite engine lubricant works so well that it provides a 10 year / 200,000 mile engine lubrication warranty when installed by a Krex authorized new car dealership service center. (The first installation of Krex must be installed prior to 50,000 miles or 48 months, whichever occurs first.) For complete warranty details, please visit: Krex 10 Year / 200,000 Mile Limited Engine Lubrication Warranty | Krex Inc.

I will reply to responses to your original feed, too. But, if I can assist in any other way, please feel free to contact me directly at amh@krexinc.com or 1.800.323.5739.

Again, thank you for your interest in Krex Graphite Engine Lubricant.

Best Regards,
Aimee Head, Director of Marketing
Krex, Inc.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Thanks for getting into the discussion. Can you provide and MSDS sheet of this product? It seems to be very hard to find.


Thanks,

Forum post *****

Krex, Inc.

First, yes, graphite is not a liquid oil, it is a microscopic solid. However, it is microscopic in size - 1/40th the size of human blood and 10 times smaller than the finest engine filter hole. IT WILL NOT CLOG HOLES NOR INCREASE CARBON DEPOSITS. That being said, there is 3-4 oz. of high grade motor oil that is used as a carrier to get the graphite into the engine. If the engine is burning the rest of the engine oil, it will also burn this oil. But, luckily for anyone who uses our product, the graphite will coat and protect the engine so that these high temperatures do not cause metallurgical damage to the engine components.

Krex, Inc.

As per your request, I am attaching the MSDS for our graphite engine lubricant (KGR). Btw, we are not trying to hide these documents (as some posts elude). Simply put, our products are typically installed by factory trained technicians. Most consumers are not interested in the MSDS, so we don't post them online.

I have also attached our fuel system cleaner (KFS) and combustion chamber cleaner (KCC) for your reference given that some of the posts referenced the need to clean already formed carbon deposits. For existing carbon issues, I would recommend the combustion chamber cleaner. For preventative maintenance, I would recommend the fuel system cleaner every 6 months.

Let me know if you need anything further.
KGR - 4 oz UPDATED-2.pdf

KFS.pdf

KCC.pdf

Krex, Inc.

Just to clarify, graphite is a microscopic solid suspended in high grade engine oil - a liquid. It is so microscopic in size, it appears to be a liquid. In its original state, it visually appears similar to a super fine talc powder (only black), but to the touch feels like a liquid. In any case, it will not clog anything.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Thanks, the MSDS confirms it's really just engine oil with your proprietary additives in it (graphite I assume). I just wanted to make sure it wasn't some type of solvent like Marvel Mystery Oil. I just sent my latest sample of Mobil1 in for testing to Blackstone but I would be willing to add a quart of this next time and then get it sampled and see how it changes the results.

But the ad also says it can withstand temps of up to 5,000F but the flash point is 392F. Not sure how that works.

Krex, Inc.

Because is it really enough? Even rotary engines burn oil (refer to other posts about carbon build up). If you are burning oil, your engine has exceeded 350 degree - 500 degrees. Those temperatures are apt to cause metallurigical damage to engine components. Graphite can protect and coat components at up to 5,000 degrees. Over time, the use of our graphite lubricant prevents engine wear - even at start-up. This helps your engine maintain compression and fuel economy over time.

Krex, Inc.

And you won't ever have any problems with it... which is why we can provide the 10 Year / 200,000 mile warranty. Keep using it, and you will extend the life and efficiency of your engines. Thanks for your post

Krex, Inc.

Thanks for clearly stating that YOU DID NOT USE OUR PRODUCT. Our product has never and will never clog a filter.

On the flipside, it has protected an engine even when the engine lost all oil. (Imagine that, an engine not seizing without oil.) Obviously, we don't recommend running an engine without oil in any way, shape or form. But, the point is that graphite has amazing lubricating qualities. So much so, that we can provide the warranty that you referenced.

Sorry to hear about your engine. That stinks!

Let me know if I can answer any other questions.

NotAPreppie

This post indicates a fundamental lack of understanding of rotary engines.

Krex, Inc.

The use of Krex WILL NOT void the Ford Motor Company (FoMoCo as you write and I like - it makes for good t-shirts) warranty. In actuality, if you check out our history timeline (Krex, Inc. Through The Years | Krex Inc.), our original product, Miracle Power, was private label branded for FoMoCo.

Also, just to clarify, our product is not considered an additive. In other words, it will not change the chemical composition of oil. Our graphite simply coats and protects the engine at extreme temperatures, when oil starts to break down, at start-up, in area that oil cannot reach.

If you do not plan to keep your car long, you can definitely get by without Krex graphite engine lubricant. (I.e. the Ford owners manual does not require it.) But, if you are like me, and like to keep your cars longer, maintain engine compression and fuel economy, then Krex Graphite Engine Lubricant will help you do that.

Krex, Inc.

You are welcome... I just posted it, if you want it emailed, drop me a line at amh@krexinc.com.

Krex, Inc.

The graphite withstands 5000 degrees. But, since the graphite is suspended in engine oil (which has s flash point of 392), the entire product has an MSDS flashpoint of 392. Our graphite is colloidally suspended in high grade engine oil - which basically provides a carrier for the graphite, enabling it to reach the internal components of an engine.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

bse50

Thanks for getting into the discussion.

Our engines are design to burn oil by injecting it into the housings to lubricate all the seals.
That's the culprit: We have to burn oil but the 2 nozzles aren't really enough and the middle of the "apex" seal stays dry. Increasing the injection rate and premixing with 2 stroke oil in the tank solves that.
Engine bearings are almost never a problem if the right weight of oil is used and the pressure adequate, that's why I said that adding oil additives isn't needed. The problem stands elsewhere.

Keeping the engine carbon free is also important to prevent cracking the springs under the various seals we have. I'm not sure how graphite would work there since it's made of the very same Carbon we're trying to keep at bay and is extremely hard to ignite!

Orthonormal

Damn, I bet the Mazda engineers didn't think of that! I'd better git me some o' that graph tight oil right away!

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Hmm. I just wanna point out one thing.

Valvoline, depends on which oil grade u use, will also give u an engine warranty that matches ur warranty term. Some higher end grade will give you even longer warranty. But it first not apply to rotary engine I think. Not like I use Valvoline, the only thing that's good is their vr-1 oil. But if I can get a warranty from just using "regular " engine oil. So tell me, Why would I need your product?


And from one of your post, I can tell you nor your company knows much if anything about rotary engine.

ARC.4.LYFE

iTrader: (2)

+1 agreed

fyrstormer

What you say is physically impossible. First of all, a microscopically-thin coating of graphite is not going to prevent metallurgical damage to metal parts if they are overheated, because the damage is caused by the heat itself. You could put an engine into an oven and heat it to 1000 degrees, and after removing it and letting it cool, it would never work right again, even though none of the parts were moving when it was overheated. That's because the parts would warp just from being exposed to excessive heat. Your product can do nothing to prevent this from happening.

Secondly, rotary engine seals are lubricated by dripping oil directly into the combustion chamber. The oil is NEVER extracted from the combustion chamber, it stays there until it burns away. The burning oil produces a bit of soot on its own, but intentionally adding graphite carbon flakes to the oil, no matter how small, MUST increase the amount of carbon left over when the oil burns away. There is no way it can't happen unless your product doesn't actually contain graphite carbon. So either you're lying about what your product is made of, or you're lying about the side effects of using it in a rotary engine.

Rotary engines are damaged by carbon deposits in the combustion chamber. They have to be professionally cleaned from time to time to remove any existing carbon. Using your product will make that problem worse.

1250 degrees, huh? So your oil is designed to lubricate the exhaust manifold? Because that's the only part of an engine that gets that hot. Fortunately the exhaust manifold has no moving parts, and therefore requires no lubrication. Even if the exhaust manifold is connected to a turbocharger, the moving parts in the turbocharger are surrounded by coolant to prevent them from getting anywhere near that hot -- and I would never run graphite-contaminated oil through a turbocharger, because the graphite flakes would act as seeds for coke deposits to grow on.

The bold bit says it all. Thanks for your contribution to RX8Club. Feel free to browse the site and learn something about how rotary engines actually work.

fyrstormer

I was disagreeing with your original comment. Your original comment implied that anything other than the factory spec is never noticeably beneficial. I can tell you firsthand that is wrong. Your later comment said most aftermarket modifications aren't noticeably beneficial, and that I can agree with.