rx8it

I don't understand something. Why has Mazda made the Mazdaspeed6 which developed 270 hp and 280 lb. ft of torque and now the Mazda3 which develops 263 hp and 280 lb. ft of torque more powerful cars than the RX8 which develops 232 hp. and 159lb ft of torque (6-speed)? I would think that the RX8 is their flagship car, which to me, should be the most powerful car in their line up. When the RX7 was living, Mazda had no other car in their lineup that was more powerful did they?

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Oh but just wait for the Mazdaspeed Rx8!!!

Spinning Sushi

iTrader: (21)

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

The Mazdaspeed RX8 is gonna have a twin turbo version of the M3 V-8. I think its gonna be one of the best joint ventures ever.

dozer

iTrader: (3)

because the twin turbos from the rx7 are a direct swap into the rx8...its way easy, cross engineering FTW

Spinning Sushi

iTrader: (21)

Biter.

Charles R. Hill

iTrader: (7)

Chassis/power balance for the best road-course driving. More power isn't always better, especially when you need not use the brakes in the turns. Try checking out road races with Honda CRXs. They use factory brake rotors because they never use the brakes!

dozer

iTrader: (3)

^well i got the idea from you, your 8 was fast and it had torque

YaXMaNGTO

So, the question has been asked and discussed many times, but you posed your question objectively and backed it up with the pertinent facts.

The answer, is "yes". The RX8 is the flagship and it has less power. The MS3 fights in a market ruled by high horsepower hatches and econoboxes, a la STi, R32, Evo, etc. It needs those numbers to compete.

I think the RX8 is marketed toward the sportscar consumer that wants something unique and somewhat controversial, I would argue. The exclusivity of the rotary engine is unmatched... it's the only production vehicle in the world with a rotary. What the RX8 gives up in power, it more than makes up for in exclusivity, and thats one of the reasons the RX8 is the flagship of the Mazda line. Even if Mazda doesn't sell many, the RX8 generates a buzz, gets the Mazda brand exposure and presence in the car magazines, and gives them something cool to stick in the showrooms.

Hidef1080

Plus one^^^.

There could be cost factors as well.
Maybe the cost of a factory turbo RX-8 would put their "flagship" into a price range where Mazda would lose more market share.
Or maybe they would have run into far more problems with a turbo'ed engine than they thought would be worth it.

Could be than Mazda looked at the number of RX-8's sold and said "if we can't move them at this price then how could we move them at a higher cost".

If you want a Mazdaspeed 8 you can build one yourself as there are turbo kits [a good ones too] out there already.

ken-x8

Exactly. High horsepower is no longer a mark of distinction. Why not gripe that the CX-7 and CX-9 have more seats than the RX-8? Or that Mazda's pickup truck (whatever it's called) can carry a 4x8 sheet of plywood but the RX-8 can't?

Ken

Fencig

I think it all depends on what the company, designer and driver are looking for. Pure power is only one factor in making a car. You also have to look at handling, style, comfort levels for the class and other factors. I get the impression that Mazda would rather be known for handling, style and innovation than power. It's a different outlook from most car companies these days. However, in today's market, power is what sells cars (esp in sedans) and they have to make money to maintain their drive to make the cars they want.

That being said, other car companies have done this "reversal" as well. Just on a whim I looked up the specs for a 91 mustang vs a 91 taurus SHO. The mustang has long been Ford's flagship car but the SHO was very close to the same power. The Mustang was rated at 205-225hp/275-300tq while the SHO was 220hp/200tq. Sure the mustang kills it in tq alone but the hp was very close. Now put them on a track and the lighter wieght and better handling mustang (I can't believe I just said a mustang was light wt and good handling) eats the SHO like a 911 vs a VW rabbit. Other examples I can think of (but haven't verified) would be...

VW bug vs Sirrocco (I know "A bug!?!" but hey it's what they're known for...that and the bus)
911 carrera vs cayen (sp?)
1998 Firebird vs 1998 GTX (ram air auto GTX had ~60hp/~70tq over the bird)

These are just examples of companies out performing what I'd call their flagships vs other cars in thier line up. I'm sure there are several others and that other people will have different opinions of which car is a flagship.

P.S. - Flagship cars are also designed to attract a small market segment and thus have smaller sales. The larger sales are based on what the mainstream market want regardless of what the company wants to be known for. Appeasing the larger market is good marketing as it keeps the comapny in business.

Pico

iTrader: (2)

^ Fancig you make a great point. Many other car companies have done the same with different model cars. Power is just one of the many factors car companies look at for the consumer. Consumers look for versatility. Another point is that Mazda is apart of the Ford motor company and has now start adopting this "trend".

RufusVonStorm

Market forces.
They didn't want a turbo rotary in this car, because they were worried about a repeat of the economic performance from the FD - relatively low sales, dogged by relatively high warranty issues.

StalkBlock

Couldnt say it better myself!!

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Emission is another problem.

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

because mazda couldnt make the engine with higher horsepower.

its really that simple. they were having problems with reliability as it was.

DarkLord7854

Or maybe... it's not the flagship car for Mazda.. >.>

kersh4w

iTrader: (3)

if mazda could have released the rx8, with everything being the same, but 300hp, they would have done so.

Hidef1080

This talk of flagships got me wonderin'

Back when you had the RX-7 and the 929 wasn't the 929 Mazda's flagship?

Is the RX-8 [which some think of as less than the RX-7] more of a "defacto" flagship because Mazda has no real replacement for their 929 line?

Fencig

I was under the impression that the RX series in general was the flagship. The reason I believe this is because they are embracing and developing the rotary. Which would go towards their "innovation" image. I could be wrong though as I'm not really a car person in general.

Chronisseur

Plus, our car is rear wheel drive. Besides the rotary, that was a huge selling point for me. You can have oodles of power, but if it's going to the front wheels, where's the fun?

ken-x8

It's Mazda's flagship in the same sense as the Corvette is GM's flagship. It shows that there are real car nuts in the company, and that the corporate folks value their presence.

Or at least keep them corraled where they won't harm others.

Ken

rx8it

These are all good points guys. The reason why I asked the question in the first place is because someone came up to me and said, "The RX8 has more chassis than it does engine." From the way he talked, this guy hated anything Mazda anyway, so I brushed him off. True, the RX8 is a very unique car. The power is adequate for me, but many times we want more than what we have. The looks that I get from everyone from little old ladies, to young children is priceless. The car really attracts attention and I love that! Now on to fixing that front suspension "thump"

P.S. I guess I'll need to rethink what a "flagship" is...as with everything about the RX8, it defies convention.

Hidef1080

Very true.
Many say that the 8 has more abilities than engine but I wish all cars were like that. Too many people get into trouble because the car cannot handle the power of the engine.

I digress...

I got this from Wikipedia so take it for what it's worth:

The HD generation of the 929 appeared in 1990, with the smaller four cylinder engines dropped in favour of V6 engines only. It was sold as the Efini MS-9 under Mazda's ill-fated diversification plan. There was no longer a Luce rotary version, and the Cosmo got a new platform as well. A new model, the Sentia, appeared on the same platform. In Canada, the car was known as the 929 Serenia.
The Sentia continued for one more generation, but importation of the 929 to North America stopped in 1995 with the front-wheel drive Mazda Millenia remaining at the top of the company's lineup. The 929 was withdrawn from North America due to a lack of competition at the Japanese import level, since the Toyota Cressida ended production in 1992. For North America, it was the last remaining mainstream rear-wheel drive sedan with a V6 engine (though smoother straight-six designs continued in the BMW 6 Series) until the Chrysler 300 was unveiled in 2005.
During the early 1990s Mazda had considered introducing its own luxury brand, Amati, to compete with Lexus, Infiniti and Acura but later withdrew their plans. The 929 was replaced by the Mazda Millenia as the flagship sedan.