motor

First off, this is not meant to be a 'the rx is dead' thread nor am I sure the title I gave it is on point.

Do though wonder about a few things....

1. Is there a 'units sold' number at which Mazda just tosses in the towel and stops making a rotary powered car ?
Just from a 'how many do they sell each year' point of view I guess I wonder if it is something rx fans should worry about. [Note - sorry I have no clue how many rx models mazda sells each year so maybe it is not even anything to worry about].

I know, think, that the rx is mazda's diamond car in a manner of speaking, sort of like the vette is to gm I would think. Still, if you don't sell a certain number and don't work to advertise the model then....

So that is it for question number one. If I'm off target then sorry for asking...just don't kill me with flames. After all I own an 07 model and though it is a AT, I still find it fun and drop dead beauitful to look at both outside and from the view inside.

2. Now the flames....
ok, even though us rx lovers love our rides will the price of gas reach a point that buyers would say 'love the car but cannot buy it as a DD due to the price of gas'. Say gas hits $4 or $5 plus a gallon (for high test). Even if Mazda wanted to keep the rx as a diamond car would it be possible for them to 'improve' the rotary engine for better gas mileage? Thought I read about a hybrid rx. That thing gm does to allow for another 1-3 mpg seems cool. Extra belt to power some electrical generator or some such thing.

Ok that be my questions/concerns. I'm not hoping or asking that they stop making the rx but wondering if we should be concerned down the road for our favorite ride. After all, to me it seems having one of the best handling rides out there at our price point can only go so far when faces with units sold and mpg vs $4 to $5 plus gas prices for a DD ride.

Hum...wonder if we already have a post for 'how many do not have the rx as their only/primary ride'...
would be interesting to see those numbers though guessing (wag) it might be 75% primary (DD) and 25% other.

Soapflake

1. The car is a sports car. Its not meant to be bought by everyone and a lot of its charm comes from rarity.

2. Yes, the gas prices put a damper on sales, but the new 16x motor should address this issue with better fuel economy and more power.

As of right now my 8 is my primary driver because I left my sirius plugged in on my old car and drained the battery. I've been having too much fun with my 8 to get around to charging it up :p

Flashwing

The survivial of the RX series vehicles will highly depend on Mazda's ability to offer a vehicle which has all the qualities of the RX8 but can continue to pass emissions standards, and maintain at least the current fuel standards.

The RX series cars are what is referred to as a "Halo Car" in the automotive world.

Halo vehicles, at least in theory, are not designed to be sold in large amounts but instead to draw in buyers with the hopes of owning one and then being sold on a more "practicle" vehicle. Example, Johnny and his wife and kids come in to look at an RX8 but while they are there they test drive the Mazda 3, or the 6 and find it works better for their family.

People love Mazda cause they get to have their sporty car feel with something that fits into their daily needs. Anybody that's tall, or like myself being big boned, will tell you that fitting 4 people in an RX8 is somewhere between not very easy to downright impossible.

I digress...

Mazda did something rather unexpected which was produce way more RX8's than the demand was at the time. Thus, the issues with resale value along with the perception that the car is not reliable by some of the general public.

As long as the rotary can pass emissions I believe there will be an RX series car. Recall that the FD was priced to compete with Porsche at one point. The RX8 is pretty affordable as it stands right now. The research into the 16x shows that, at least for the time being, Mazda's not given up on the rotary.

bose

iTrader: (5)

I think I heard tale of a hydrogen powered renesis in development, not sure if I was dreaming or not. But that would be bad ***.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

They have been testing it on *limited number of users* in Japan for quite some time.

but the problem is that, it cuts the power in 1/2, hydrogen cannot produce as much *power* as gasoline. but its much much cleaner (zero emission)

Mazda is just showing the world that Rotary engine is easy to run with alternative fuel.

bose

iTrader: (5)

Ah, it's only a matter of time before they figure it out then.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

Well, if u can find a hydrogen station every 100 miles then yeah sure why not ?

but do u think those *big boys* will let this happen? Ever wonder why it cost over 110 bux a barrel of oil ?

delhi

Like the S2000 or M3, the RX-8 is not meant to be a volume seller. It is the performance flagship of Mazda even though many in America thinks that performance means going fast on a straight line. Having said that, Rotary Engine is synonymous with Mazda just like Quattro is to Audi or Flat-6 is to Porsche. All the new technology and design cues starts out in this car and gets filtered into the rest of the line-up.Mazda spent serious R&D to build a car around the Renesis. It is not a car clobbered together by some parts bin with a mighty dose of marketing.
Also the RX-8 sells well in the rest of the world. Try to think that there are more to the world than just the US of A mmkay.
Personally I wouldn't mind if the RX-8 takes a bit of a hiatus and then return with the 16x.... selfishly I like to it to be rare.

dozer

iTrader: (3)

^^^^well said delhi...i love the rarity of this car!!! i was at formula D this weekend and all i saw were Zs, the only 8 on the road was mine!!!

Raptor75

I feel the future of this car is uncertain. Even though the the x16 engine is a nice evolutionary step the other car companies are also moving forward.

The 350Z is moving to a smaller much lighter car which will only increase it's Power/fuel economy advantage over the RX.

The S2000 is moving to a larger car but I haven't head about the engine. Hell, hyundai is coming out with a 300 HP coupe next year. Mazda needs to show an advantage over the other cars while being able to increase fuel economy. This is a tall order. They have it now with the ride and handling but are getting spanked on the MPG and power issues.

Also remember the engine failure issue is still plaguing the car, they have made new changes but will that resolve the problem. Again only time will tell.

Raptor75

When and if hydrogen comes to market it will not be in an internal combustion engine it will be in fuel cells that can utilize 2 to 3 times the energy from the same Hydrogen for propulsion.

seven-to-eight

A rhetorical question.
How popular is the RX-8 in the UK, Europe and Japan (I really don't know, but Jeremy Clarkson of Top Gear loved it) and what are their fuel prices? IIRC in the UK gasoline is about twice that of the US.

Hydrogen's nemesis will always be about packaging enough of it to run a car a reasonable distance. Doesn't do much for your lightweight finely balanced sporty car if you've got to stick heavy cylinders in it or tow a trailer fun of fuel!

cheers

Renesis07

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't bother me if the rx stopped. We would own 'the last' rotary making our cars very very valuable. Which would make the car more rare and way more valuable, solving the depreciation issue

CyberPitz

I'd cry if Mazda stopped the RX models. From the RX-2 all the way up to 8, they were great cars, with a high ability to become a rare classic. I have a feeling they won't let these cars die, as Mazda saw great sales with the 1st generation RX-7, though the money slowly lowered throughout the years on the 7. I have a feeling that with the high standards they have to reach above now, they will *hopefully* push hard to reach them, allowing them to create a much better and more unique engine over time.

OSducky

Listen the only problem with the rx-7 is ............ The third generation was outrageously priced, I STILL want a 3rd gen 7, but the prices are still over 10k for a car that is 15 - 16 years old .......... so that makes me sad, I think the point of all this is they need to market the next Rx at about the 30 - 40k price range, and offer 300+ bhp stock. I mean I know that torque isn't everything but it sells alot.

Khyron

I had the impression that the 2008 model was going to be the swansong of the RX-8, at least for a while. I can't remember exactly where I heard that from, but I'm pretty sure it was at the Mazda dealership - not that they know what they are talking about.

I wonder if there is any truth to it. Has anyone else heard that?

Ike

It was absolutely meant to be a volume seller (for a sportscar). Upon release Mazda was hoping to sell 30,000 a year in the US and there were many dealerships that had 20+ RX-8s on their lots in anticipation of that. They were gunning for numbers similar to the WRX and 350Z sales wise, not S2K or M3 sales numbers, though that's probably closer to where the sales numbers have ended up in the last year or two. Who knows at what point Mazda decides to cut the cord with the RX-8. Many other companies probably would have discontinued it a while ago. I think we'll find out when it's time for a major redeisgn, which is right around the corner.

Lastly, I know you guys love to toss around the rare term. But, while the RX-8 hasn't sold well, it hasn't sold so poorly that it's a rare car. Less common than cars like the 350Z and Mustang, absolutely, rare, not by car standards. If Mazda stopped producing the RX-8 tomorrow there will be enough used RX-8s on the market to satify demand and keep resale prices down for years to come.

Red Devil

I can't believe any automotive enthusiast would ever wish for the end of the rotary engine. It may have it's quirks and is not for every one, but it has it's place.

They've sold as many RX-8s as, if not more than, the widely successful 2nd generation RX-7. The platform has also been successful as it's been passed to the MX-5, and has long been rumored to be placed in at least one other future model.

JRichter

I think the term rare, when talking about this car, is the fact that it's rotary powered. A rotary powered car would be rare verses a conventional powered vehicle if considering the overall types of vehicles on the road.

Raptor75

You do realise that the RX-2 had a bad habit of snapping off rotor tips, blowing oil seals, failed engine seals which led to coolant leaks. It almost drove Mazda to bankruptcy. It was a unique car but great it was not.

Ike

No way. The FC sold around 86,000 units in the US in its first production year alone. That number probably isn't too far off RX-8 sales for all model year sales of the RX-8 combined.

I agree with you on one thing though. While the rotary may not be my engine of choice it would be sad to see it go away for good. Variety is nice to have when it comes to cars.

Red Devil

Last I saw, more than a year ago, the RX-8 was past 160,000 units sold. The numbers are much closer than your speculation.

And again, your viewpoint of the RX-8 being singular isn't accurate. It's a shared platform and has yielded other financial benefits.

By 9/04, Mazda had already produced 100,000 RX-8s. Since, sales have declined through the years...but they were already at that mark 3.5 years ago.

http://car-reviews.automobile.com/ne...embly-line/85/

kinchu007

iTrader: (1)

I think that it would be nice for Mazda to take a break again...maybe 3-4 years...and then bring back the RX as a 2-door flagship in the $35-45k range...I'm just not smart enough to understand what that means from a marketing perspective...to the average buyer I think that when a model goes out of production they immediately label it as an unsuccessful failure or as a financial drain on the car company.

Ike

My numbers are US sales alone for one model year your numbers are total production for the world. In other words, the RX-8 sales aren't anywhere near those of the FC like you said. Shared platform or not, it's going to be up to Mazda to decide if it's worth it to spend the money on a new version of the RX-8. Sales numbers don't seem to make a very strong case for them to do so, but hopefully they move forward with it and that it is a money maker for them.

Red Devil

Your numbers came from here, correct?
Overall, the second generation was the most successful for Mazda sales wise, with 86,000 units sold in the US alone in 1986, its first model year. The FC model is believed to have achieved its peak in sales in 1988.
Let's not treat Wikipedia as a credible source.

What I supplied was a factual snapshot of Mazda after ~1.5 years of production. I'm not going to bother searching more to get you answers if Wikipedia is the best you can do.

And platform sharing is very important. If it weren't no company would be doing so. You can ignore that part of the argument, but it doesn't just disappear because you won't acknowledge it or accept it because it is detrimental to your argument.