How bad is the automatic/tiptronic?
 

I've been reading this forum for a few weeks now and this is my first post. I am very serious about buying an RX-8 in the next month or so. I have very little experience driving manual cars and when I tried driving the manual rx-8 with the dealership I had a hard time depressing the clutch all the way, because I'm fairly short (5'5" with short legs). I live in the MD/DC area and know I'll be in stop and go traffic with some regularity. How much difficulty will I have driving a manual rx 8 in stop and go traffic in this area?

My other concern is that my wife doesn't want to plan to ever learn to drive a manual car. We also test drove the automatic rx-8 and the tiptronic shifter was fun to use and you could still get the rpm's up fairly high. If I used the tiptronic on a regular basis would that hurt the car, or should I just learn to drive the manual? Please keep in mind that I will never race this car, and only use it as a commuter car. I do not live in an area with long winding roads, nor do I plan to drive my car for those types of recreational purposes. My wife can live without driving me car, but my biggest fear is I'll get the manual and go insane because of how short I am and the long clutch throw. Although I'm also concerned I'll get the tiptronic and feel like I'll never get to truly let this car perform (even though I'd rarely do that anyway).

Your height shouldn't prevent you from driving this car in MT. My friend is 5'3 and she drives it fine. It shouldn't take more than a few months for you and your wife to drive MT.

Automatic is certainly an option and will get you into this car. However, you may be better off choosing another vehicle entirely. The RX-8 requires a little more attention than most other cars. Also, as a pure commuter it may not have the fuel economy you may like.

Pretty sure guy means a few months to drive a manual really well. You can learn the basics and be driving it around fairly easily after a couple days of practice.

There are several serious issues affecting some automatic transmission RX-8s that Mazda may or may not have managed to figure out a fix for. Up to now all they can do is replace the engines on the affected cars. That alone would make me go for a manual.

And it's a personal pet peeve of mine when men whine that they have to buy an automatic because their wife or girlfriend can't drive a stick! TEACH her how, fer heaven's sake... it's a very useful skill and makes driving much more fun and engaging. It also keeps her from putting on makeup while she's behind the wheel. ;)

Yes, well I mean proficiently.

Just adjust your seat. You should be just fine with driving manual. Automatic is just not fun. I swapped my automatic tranny to manual in my previous car just to have that feeling. I used to drive manual on a busy campus with stop-and-go traffic and it was never a problem. You will get used to it very soon. Even, if are not into acceleration, you would be better of choosing MT. I would not be surprised if AT were not very reliable on this car after ~ 60K.

As far as RX-8. There is a strange thing how long it took me to shift this car *very smoothly*. I drove all kinds of cars before and none of them had such jerks when you do not match the revs precisely. I think, this is due to the close-ratio gearing.

You could wait a few months. Sounds like the '06 model will have a 6spd Automatic.

hey buddy, i live in College Park MD, student at UMCP. Where do you live? Anywho, I bought a brand new manual car just a few weeks ago, and not having driven manual since 10th grade. I actually found my self having the same problem with depressing the clutch at first. But I ended up realizing its just the way I positioned my foot making it seem like my legs are too short (im 5'8). Its much more comfortable now. Not to mention you can always adjust the seats. Im pretty sure height have nothing to do with your problem, its got to be the way you position your foot that makes it seem like you cant reach it.

I feel you on your concern over driving a manual car in traffic. Rush hour traffic is terrible in this area, especially if you have to use 495 or 95. A manual car is not fun at all in that kinda traffic. but dispite it all, I still strongly recommend you to get the manual version not only for the extra 40ish hp, but also because you are getting a fun sports car, and getting automatic (which only have 197 hp) sort of defeats the whole purpose of the sports car fun factor. Manual would be my personal preference.

On the other hand you just want this car because it looks good, and dont care too much about performance, then you should get the auto. It has more useable torque down low and more suitible for everyday driving. Everyone buys cars for different reasons, so as long as youre satisfied with it, theres no reason why you shouldnt get the auto. This car is not about straight line acceleration anyways, so even the manual version is not that fast to begin with. Do keep in mind, however that your resale value will not be as good as the manual version.

From what you said though, it sounds like a auto is more suitible for you since you mentioned that you arnt really into recreational driving, and just wants a commuter car and dont care much for performance. As Ive indicated, this car isnt about straight line accleration, its more about its nimble handling. You will get that experience with the auto version too. dont worry about reliability, the tiptronic is there for you to use, if it messes up your car, then it wouldnt be there in the first place. I care a lot about the fun factor and recreational driving, so Id never get an auto sports car, but it really sounds like an auto would be the best choice for you. good luck. BTW, ive gotten numerous offers for the RX8 at hundreds below invoice price from dealers around this area, so keep that in mind :)

Thanks for everyone's response. To the kid who asked where I live, I live in Silver Spring, and graduated from UMCP in 2002. I would enjoy the preformance of the car, but would only really use it for passing on the highway, probably nothing more than that. I'm not concerned about the gas mileage either. What I liked about the tiptronic was that I could use it when I wanted to, like when I wanted to pass or something. I understand that this car is not about straight line speed, but that is not something I value in a car anyway. I like the styling and uniquness of the car, and in the both cases, knowing I have a car that can handle better than a regular car if I choose to push it.

My wife's shorter than you and has no trouble with the manual transmission on the RX-8, which is a very fun car.

That said, this is not a car I'd get if a major part of its use was going to be in heavy traffic. I love manual transmissions, but they're a real drag in stop-and-go traffic, day after day. I'd get a beater automatic (e.g., 6 year old Accord) for that, and a fun car for the rest of the time, if you can afford it.

Also, the fuel mileage of the RX-8 is very poor in heavy traffic. A decent Accord will get close to twice the gas mileage with half the fuss.

My $.02. Let the flames begin.

Dude, this is a JAPANESE car! 5'5'' is huge by their standards...you'll do just fine :)

Yes, in heavy stop and go traffic I would expect around 15mpg or less.

I can live with the poor fuel mileage, and the more I think about it, the more I think that driving around 495 and 270 in rush hour will make me insane in a manual and make me regret my choice. That is why I thought a auto with tiptronic is good because those few times I want to pass someone I will have the flexibility to in a tiptronic. Has anyone seen any long-term reviews on the automatic rx8? All opinions are quite welcome.

Oh joy, another bash-the-AT thread.
My short answer is, there's a lot to like about an AT masquerading as a manual.
Meanwhile . . .
That's easy for you to say. Might as well teach my cat to play polo while I'm at it.

I've always viewed automatics as owning half a car. Manuals do suck in stop and go traffic. However, I would suggest you teach yourself and your wife how to drive a stick. Long time ago I saw something on TV about dumb criminals: the criminals couldn't get away in a stolen pick-up because they couldn't drive a manual. If you or your wife have plans to rob a bank or something and have to find a close car to get away in, I suggest learning how to drive a manual.

FS

you will be fine with a automatic, you can go from reg at to the shifter at any time .. either use the steering wheel controls or the shifter knob

Silverspring huh, 495 and 270 sucks big time during rush hour dude. one of my best buddies have a blue 04 auto rx8. Hes had no problem with it. Get the auto and enjoy the attention you get everywhere you go :) Everyone will turn their head and look at you in that car.

This is my seventh rotary and first automatic. I have had a couple of back ops and I had no choice. Sure the manual is more fun and the extra power would be wounderful! The A/T gets better MPG then the M/T, I have got mid-hi twenties several times. Thats not what the car is about. It's about reving that rotary. I have the the most fun on the twisties red lineing it in second doing.......well you just have to do it once then you will understand. The car has perfect balance. Get the A/T you will be happy.

The automatic is quite fun, even though I do bash on it sometimes. But if you are going to be in heavy stop and go traffic, then you should definitly get the auto and save the hassle on you and your wife. Its power isnt much different for passing compared to the MT. Just dont try to pass anyone between 31-40mph in 2nd gear, 50-65mph in 3rd gear. If you can keep out of those ranges you should be fine.

I have driven a MT RX8 3 times and have yet to kill one. They are pretty easy to drive. Just got to let out slowly if you want a smooth flow. I might add I have only drive a MT Car 7 times. Nissan Sentra Spec V 6 Speed is what I learned on. Ive driven a Sentra Spec V 2 times, RX8 3 times, Nissan 350Z once, and my friends 5 Speed S10 once. Out of those cars the RX8 was definitly the easiest MT to use.

i drive to downtown la every other day, and to the OC (irvine) the days i dont drive to LA and i hit stop and go traffic everyday and I believe its not that bad with a manual, or maybe i havent been driving it long enough? (a year)

the arguement that a manual in stop and go traffic is annoying/horrible/etc. is something only said by automatic owners

If this is your daily driver it will take less than a month before you don't even notice you are shifting...I got stuck in an almost 2 hour traffic jam when a bridge over the highway collapsed during construction...the shifting was the only thing that kept my mind from going nutz because you shouldn't be touching your cellphone on the road

That reminds me! Shifting is just so much fun if you ask me. Keeps me from being bored or going nuts. Anyways im done now. :)

just trying to make all of you feel good about yourself ;) :p




/btw Zoom knows I'm somewhat crazy :D

I got the Auto because I have another fun car that is a manual and when I want to drive it I can. I miss nothing in the RX8 having an automatic, it still gets the looks and is a blast to drive. It sounds like the Auto would be better for you over all. Esp considering it would be the better choice for your wife.

Its a common misconception as an auto owner that shifting is an unpleasurable experience...when in fact, its anything but it.

I was a long time ATX driver that swapped to a 1st time manual. The first week is utter hell, by the end of the first month, you'll wonder why you ever bought automatics in the first place.

Well, I was driving manual for 5 years, then I had to switch to automatic for 2 years. I missed the MT a lot. For the first week I kept trying to find the shifter or the clutch from time to time. After you get used to MT (weeks or months) you will not think about the shifting at all and it would not be any problem in heavy traffic. I would still go with MT.

You sound like you are considering this car for all the right reasons.

I have an AT because of traffic. And the traffic where I live is not nearly as bad as in the D.C. area. I'm familiar with the traffic there, having lived there for years. I just wouldn't consider a stick for inside the Beltway. It's aggravating enough as it is.

The manumatic mode is a lot of fun. I usually put it in full automatic until it is warmed up, then move to manumatic. If I hit a traffic jam, I switch to full automatic again.

Also, I have been getting better gas mileage than a lot of AT drivers -- 20 to 21 mpg.

Normally I'd agree with that statement, but today I spent 45 minutes while "they" closed all the lanes of 95 to clear a car fire a few miles ahead of me. In theory we shouldn't have been moving but about a foot a minute was the going rate.

By the way, my fiance is 5' even and has no problem driving my 8. I have a problem readjusting the seat, but that's another story. :)

First, now is probably not the time to buy an auto 8. The hot weather engine deaths are primarily happening in autos. It has been known since the start that the Renesis was detuned (less ports) and redline reduced for the auto because Mazda did not have a proper auto for the Renesis. If you want an 8, wait for the 6 speed at when Mazda will be putting the 6 port engines in.

If you do go for an MT, a clutch pedal extension will make you much more comfortable and confident. Even taller people find the clutch can be a long reach because the seat has to be relatively far back to get the gas pedal in the right position. There are commercial pedal extensions available and there is a good DIY by Omicron in the DIY section.

Lastly, an editorial comment just to show my anti-at bias. It should be the law that everyone should learn to drive on an mt. In fact, everyone should only be allowed to drive mt unless they get a medical exemption.

I'm experienced driving with manual transmissions other than the RX-8, but I bought an automatic primarily because it is my only car and I have an hour-long commmute to work and back. When I drive to work during off hours, I spend a lot of time just cruising--not much fun for an automatic OR manual. But, since I live in the Bay Area, traffic can be quite bad. Also, there are lots of stop signs in San Francisco. :) For the first month, I drove in manual mode and enjoyed it considerably. But, the first time I hit a massive traffic jam, it was a major pain to constantly deal with manual mode. It would be even worse if I had to deal with the clutch also. I was really thankful for the automatic then, and since. Now that the novelty has worn off, I don't usually drive in manual mode much anymore, and it's much nicer to be able to forget about shifting until I really want to.

Don't get me wrong--I have occasionally wished for more power out of the car, and wondered whether I would've been happier with the manual. Then again, the kind of power I'm thinking about (flashback to my muscle-car days) is not really there in the RX-8 at all, either MT or AT. Overall, I am not disappointed at all with my purchase, and I know that I'm happier all around not having to deal with shifting at every other San Francisco block.

By the way, my mother weighed in on the topic when I was debating whether I wanted MT or AT, she said, "Every guy needs to buy at least one manual car in their life, if for no other reason than to learn how much of a pain in the a** they are to drive." In my previous experience, shifting is fun for awhile, but it can get old, especially if you have to deal with other things while you're driving (answer the phone [to tell them to call you back], kids, drinks, etc.) Keep in mind that the placement of the drink holders in this car are very bad. If you routinely bring a drink with you in the car, you will not be able to rest your elbow comfortably on the center console. This would get really old having to shift all the time.

Contrary to a previous poster, I'm not so sure about the resale value of the AT. At least for the Shinkas, there were fewer made. AT could mean a lot to the right buyer.

One final note: if you get the AT, wait until the car is broken in before you start using manual mode much. The computer learns your driving habits over time, and learning how to shift this car properly (it's different than when driving a manual) can interfere and really confuse it. I didn't do this, and the car developed hesitation and odd shifting behavior. A reset of the computer fixed all that, and now it's much more comfortable to drive in automatic mode.

Ultimately, go with your heart. Don't feel bullied into a wrong fit for you by the opinions of people here. Try both and weigh the tradeoffs; it's still an RX-8, so ultimately there is no wrong decision. :)

I made my comment from personal experience. I was cross shopping used Corvette, used M3 and new G35c not too long ago. And I find the price for used Corvettes with automatic transmission to be 2-4 thousand bucks lower than manual versions around my area. As for new G35 coupes, I could have bought an AT for below invoice. But I had to pay hundreds above Invoice for a manual. I find this trend to be true generally for all performance cars. I did a quick experiment on KBB's site on used vehicles, the MT cars usually cost more than AT. This is especially true for RX8 because MT version actually cost more than the AT to begin with and have more power. Its only natural that MT cost more used.

Well, I suppose that, since we own a minivan with an automatic transmission which I drive every few weeks, you are correct in calling me an automatic owner. :rolleyes:

In reality, when the traffic is such that you rarely can fully engage the clutch, so you spend a half hour or more each way each day slipping your clutch, a manual transmission is not fun. Period. I do it, every day, but I rue it, every day.

Get your self what you want!
Nothing wrong with getting the AT
I am going to get an AT as soon as the recall is fixed.
I will be very happy with the AT tranny

A lot of instant gratification types here. If you must have an auto, just wait for the 6 speed. Why go into a car knowing that even the manufacturer didn't want to use the trans that's currently shipping? There are plenty of better cars on the market if auto is your thing.

I still haven't made up my mind and will probably test drive the manual again, after practicing on a friends manual this weekend. The stop and go traffic I'm in isn't usually that bad, and when it starts to get bad I also start considering finding a job closer to my house, where I won't be in stop and go traffic anyway. Thanks again for everyone's input.

Can anyone tell me more about the 6 speed auto and why it's better than the current AT? If this is in the 2006 model year, when is that model available? I sold my old car ('97 Mitsubishi Mirage AT) 2 weeks ago and now I'm carpooling with my wife so time is some consideration. I've also considered letting my wife buy a new car now, then I'd use her car and possibly buy a beater manual for like $1,000 or less and just practice driving on it and run it into the ground. Then I can still drive my wife's old car if I hate manual and/or destroy a car that old. Then in a year or 2 I'd buy a new car and have a much better idea of what I'd want to drive, but I'm not sure if I want to go through all that trouble or wait that long.

I have a Mazda Millenia S too, the model only came in Auto...great car, the Miller Cycle Engine is amazing BUT one of its few faults is no manual :(

also I've driving a 5 speed minivan...it is fun although minivans need autos...because most likely you have kids and if some toddler decides to throw an object or something at your head, trying to deal with them while driving...shifting etc is crazy :D

You know, if I had to drive this car exclusively in automatic mode, I'd probably go insane, because it really is a dog that people make it out to be in that sense. With an engine that already doesn't provide much torque, you're likely to get runned over if you attempt any fast maneuvers when the car's already all the way in overdrive while you're puttering around town. I mean heck you can always feel the engine lugging all the time at low speeds because it's in way too high of a gear and just isn't pushing enough torque to overcome the lugging sensation. This is the only automatic I've ever driven where you can feel the engine lugging at all, much less so badly.

The car honestly feels like a totally different beast in tiptronic mode, which is what I use 99.9% of the time. Better, more predictable acceleration as you can take it up to the higher RPMs where the rotary needs to be to make power, and shift when you want to. In-town cruising can all be done locked in 2nd gear, right around 3000 RPMs/35 mph, where you can be ready to unleash the power if needed because you're already at the start of your power band. Easy, last second rev matches to power through corners, thanks to the shifting delay tiptronics have. None of my friends that have been in the car with me have ever thought of the car as "just an automatic" with the way I drive it.

The only thing that I don't like about the automatic at the moment is the measly four gears the AT only has. The AT would be so perfect if it had just one more gear...but with only four gears, you end up spending most of your time in 2nd gear because it's so ridiculously tall. You also rarely get to hit redline often in the lower gears without blowing away speed limits around town. Of course Mazda is soon remedying this problem with the upcoming 6 speed version of the AT...which really pisses me off as it's what the AT RX-8 SHOULD have been to begin with. :rolleyes: And even that's going to be handicapped with the 7200 RPM redline instead of the full 9000 RPMs.

Would I consider swapping to a MT? Maybe if Mazda does decide to never release an AT version of the RX-8 with the hi-power 9000 RPM redline engine. But otherwise, I'm a very happy tiptronic user...the AT RX-8 is my first car I've owned with tiptronic, and I've learned to make it work for me, shifting delays and all. I'm having tons of fun with it.

I just finished reading the thread about the DIY clutch extension. It makes me feel better already that I'm not the only one who thought the clutch was too far away for comfortable use. My wife and I do need a second car fairly soon so I'll have to make a decision in the next few weeks. Although it does sound like if I really want the auto I should wait till the 6 speed comes out. Does anyone know when it is supposed to be available? Is there currently an rmp limiter on the autos, or can you take it all the way up to 9000?

there is an RPM limiter because although both 1.3 rotary engines there are MAJOR differnces between them...

the Manual has an additional air intake system for putting air into the engine at higher revs

the exhaust ports in the engine only total 4 in the Automatic/5speed manual (standard power engine), 6 in the 6 speed manual (high power engine)

I actually have a great service module I got from RotaryG-d outlining the entire process...it is really fascinating

there are also dual oil coolers on the 6 speed...which are needed for the heat produced at 9000 RPMs

there is more but you get the idea

now till october is the best time to buy a 2005 car, you will be getting hundreds below invoice price on 2005 RX-8s because they are clearing out their inventory for 2006 models. If you wait a couple of month for the 2006 model, you can expect to pay a premium price, unless you are willing to wait until july next year, which judging by your posts, you seem like you need it soon.

if I were considering the Auto...there is no question...wait for the 6speed automatic tranny

by the time it comes out though you and your wife could learn stick on a beater car (rent-a-wreck :)) and the issue would be null

Is it that the 4 spd AT will cause problems or just that the 6 spd AT is better? I'm still toying of the idea of letting my wife get a new car now, and the using hers and also getting a manual better to learn on for a year or so. Then make up my mind next August or so when the 6 spd AT is available and by then I'll also know if i want to deal with a manual or not.

I have to say...if your worried about your ability to use a cell phone, juggle things with a second hand, or put on makeup while your driving...you shouldn't be driving till those things are taken care of BEFORE you get into a car.

I actually think that people trying to do things other then drive when behind the wheel should be forced to use public transportation so the damn fatality rates on the highway drive.

If your doing something with your other hand, your not paying 100% of your attention to the road, and your endangering your life, your passengers life, and the other individuals on the road.

A car is a weapon of mass destruction in the hands of an oblivious driver.

http://www.wam.umd.edu/~greghess/fast.jpg

5 seconds to answer this cellphone won't matter...nothings going to happen, nobody is in front of me and the roads straight....

RX8 was my first MT car. Only time I had ever driven anything with a clutch was dirtbikes, quads, and tractors. It sucks at first but OMG the throttle response is SO much better you just feel more intune with the car.

I'm ruined now and don't think I can ever buy another AT car again. As for the wife not knowing how to drive it, mine had never driven anything that had a clutch EVER before the RX8.

For the first couple months she didn't want to. Then one day she said she wanted to drive, we went out of town a few miles she got in, I closed my eyes and an hour or so later she was good enough to get around in it.

Traffic does suck, but you get a beefy calf muscle out of it, and it helps pass the time.

I had the same feeling as you at first about the AT vs MT, and almost went with the Automatic tranny. In the end drive them both and buy the one you like the most.

IMO if you are infetuated with the look of the car and dosnt really care much for performance and needs a car soon, just get the 05 auto for thousands less. Im sure the 6 spd auto will make a difference toward performance, but as fars as just having a beautiful car and use it to commute. I think the 4spd is adequet. But if you have the extra money to spend, then by all means, im sure the new tranny will be superior. just my 2 cents

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to test drive it again this weekend or next and also practice driving a friends manual to see what is right for me. My biggest concern with the manual was really the clutch and now that I see lots of people have had teh same complaint and have found a fairly simple fix I definitely need to take that into consideration. I should be making up my mind either this weekend or next and will definitely let everyone know what I did.

Thanks again for everyone's advice and input it has really helped give me enough information to make a decision I'll be comfortable with.

I have an 05 auto but people on are saying that the 06 is going to have more power and more features than the 05. I think an auto is fine unless you want a stick is all up to you

Yeah the '06 will have 212HP and 6speeds. Still unclear as to whether its a 4-port with more power or a 6-port with less power.

Thanks for everyone's responses, but I ended up going with the Manual Transmission. I'll just have to learn how to drive it. I'm picking up my white '05 M/T, touring package at the end of the week. Thanks again to everyone on this forum. I now feel quite a bit more knowledge about what I am getting and feel quite comfortable with my decision.

congrats...you'll love the car!