NotAPreppie

My point was more a matter of having to actually live with the car. Money is easy to come by so you don't have to worry about gas, insurance, repairs or maintenance. You don't drive an in-game car on your daily commute. You don't have to try to load anything bulky in your in-game car.

Don't get me wrong, I loved my RX-8 and I'd still own it if I hadn't gone back to college in a densely populated city. The issue is that it's so easy to be blind to reality when you fall in love with the virtual representation of something. Think of casually flirting with a supermodel online only to find out AFTER you move in together that she's into cuckolding* in the most negative way possible.

* I'm not responsible for any mental anguish caused by googling that term.

nogoer

To be honest, i think you are like most new drivers and have your sights set too high.

What this comes down to is are your parents going to help you with costs? Stuff like insurance on all the cars you mention will be ABSURD for a 17 year old, even on your parents policy. Gas for the RX8 is nuts and if you drive like a 17 year old you better expect very high gas bills!

Winter driving? Well this is a RWD sports car and tires are not cheap no matter what type. In your situation i would be looking for a truck or an AWD car for my first car. Not having much if any winter driving experience and a sports car is a bad combination.

As young male new drivers we all want to jump out and rip it up in a flashy girl magnet sports car, but that isnt real life. Not unless you have rich parents who don't mind dumping cash on you constantly. If your parents have your back then by all means take the chance to have some fun! If not then your setting yourself up for failure as there's no way you can handle the ongoing costs without a job and without much savings.

If you've only banked around 1K how are you financing the car in the first place?

nogoer

Really guy? Tell me your secret because my wife and i make over 100K combined a year and i still stress over the cost of gas and insurance and taxes and all that crap. If you work hard sure you can make money, but for a 17 year old thats offset by the massive cost of being 17 and having a sports car.

My caveat is we have all been here and 17 is supposed to be the time your stupid and do stupid things. Thats how we learn to be responsible adults. As a kid the only thing he really needs to cover is his personal expenses so it leaves a much bigger margin for expenses like cars.

NotAPreppie

I meant in-game, "guy". I've been in the over $100k/year boat and worried a hell of a lot less about those costs then than I do now as a 34-year-old undergrad. But you almost never think about those things in a video game.

By your logic, it's okay if we all make stupid mistakes all the damned time because we can always look back in ten years and say, "If I knew then what I know now..." The point is that there are tons of people who have made the exact same mistake and their words of caution are worth a second thought. Not learning from the mistakes of people that came before you is why history repeats itself.

I'm not telling him not to buy an '8. I'm telling him to be honest with himself and realistic in his expectations. Understand that the criteria that your "in-love" state is based on is from a fantasy land where real life has no basis. Is he going to? Probably not. Hell, I wouldn't have. But, maybe, just maybe, he'll look back and say, "Oh, that's what that curmudgeonly, pompous *** that wasn't a preppie was talking about."

Also, I'd learn to drive stick on something with a transmission that ISN'T made of glass. Unless you want to contribute to your mechanic's "new boat" fund.

MWisBest

Thanks. Nice to understand why the price of the RX-8 is so much lower than I was expecting it would be, lol. Definitely will have the car checked out regardless of what I end up getting.

Well I can thank you for an idea...

I've been meaning to try and come up with a decent idea to put the video game engine I programmed to decent work. Here's the idea: sort of like The Sims meets Need for Speed. You need your car to go to work during the day and for racing at nights and on weekends. Need to haul stuff home from the store in the car, etc. just every day stuff, with most of the focus being around using the car (obviously). Good idea to see if a car would work for the life you want to live!

If you bothered to read I said I'd be getting the car in just over a year or so, that gives me the time to get a job and save money. I don't plan on driving my car like a 17 year old, I'm more responsible than that and have always had trouble fitting in with people my age as I'm too mature for them.

I've done my stupid things and learned from them. I went through the whole "do stupid thing; learn from mistake" phase much earlier than others. While I'm not saying I won't do something stupid and learn from it ever again, I'm saying that I'm at the point where it isn't in my blood to do something stupid all the time. We all do stupid things and have to learn from them.

And yes, let's put it this way: my car expenses is in-place of a rent or house expense and all the other things that go along with renting or owning a home.

Well, my dad drives semis for a living, and that really takes some shifting skills, lol. He'd be a good teacher for it. I'll have him drive the car first and I'll observe and have him explain it to me. While I'm sure I'll grind the gears a bit at first, there's no way I'm going to be stupid enough to wreck the transmission.

altspace

iTrader: (2)

It's winter time here, and although I rarely take the car out of the garage, I don't risk damaging the MS bumper, so I put the stock back on.

thomthoms3

iTrader: (1)

I understand completely where you are coming from MW. My RX-8 was my first car, and I definitely had to learn a lot about how to take care of rotary engines. I don't understand why some people assume that just because you are 17, you MUST go 234987 mph all the time, or that you absolutely WILL wreck it. Honestly, thats all bullshit. It really comes down to how responsible you are, and if you bought it yourself, and you'd like to see your RX-8 run great, then you will definitely take care of it.

You seem like you don't have that typical mindset of a 17 year old as some people on this thread accuse you of. Lots of people who are teenagers take care of their cars.

Now, what I have learned over the time that I've had my RX-8 is that it is VERY different from any car in the way that you take care of it. Seeing as you read the New owners thread, you should understand this.

Insurance prices will actually be WAY cheaper than most sports cars. It sounds crazy, but since the RX-8 is a 2 ROTOR engine, it's listed on insurance as a 2 CYLINDER. Because of this, insurance companies laugh to themselves as to how weak it is, thus giving it a good rate (it also helps that it is a 1.3L engine and technically 4dr). This is what I've gathered from my insurance company (USAA), but will vary with other companies.

Obviously you know that the RX-8's are gas guzzlers because of their rotary engine, but honestly, you shouldn't care. If you care about gas mileage then walk away from the RX-8, but if you want a car that can handle a corner like a super-car, make an incredible noise, ride smoothly, make you smile, and keeps you addicted, at the cost of bad gas mileage, somewhat unreliable, hard to take care of, then buy the RX-8. Although it is harder to take care of then most sports cars, it will keep you busy, entertained, and will teach you a lot. I am still learning and having the best time doing it.

Now with winter weather, it really depends on your winter conditions where you live. Winter where I live ended literally a week ago and we had a few snow days but not much. Ever since the summer, my tires have been completely bald. I went through the whole winter with bald tires, and never had any problems. Obviously this varies, but if you have a lot of snow days in your area, and will be driving on icy conditions, then just pick up some tire chains if you are worried about traction. IMHO, the RX-8, obviously, isn't the best decision for a car that can handle icy roads, but it certainly isn't going to lead you to your inevitable death. The other thing to watch out for in cold weather is starting/stopping the engine. During the winter, when I cold start it, I let it idle for a bit until the idle drops to 1k rpm before I drive it. While the engine is warming up, make sure to shift below 4k rpm. After the engine is fully warmed up, I usually shift around 4.5-5k rpm (with the occasional redline). Make sure you engine is warmed up fully before turning the ignition off!!! This is super important especially in the winter! I ALWAYS rev it up to 3k rpm for about 10 seconds before I shut it off to avoid flooding, and to leave a layer of oil on the rotor for the next time it starts up. It sounds like a lot, but it becomes a habit, and eventually seems like second-nature. And remember the saying, "A redline a day keeps the carbon/mechanic away!"

Soapflake

I bought my 8 when I was 20 and making $13/hr working a full time job and it was pretty tight. Between cost of living, my car and my girlfriend I could barely afford to keep up with oil changes, let alone proper maintenance. I made it past 130k miles on the car, but I know I could have gone further on my first engine had I waited a little longer in life. Just be sure you're prepared for the cost of ownership.

Also, another reason the rx8 is cheapish on insurance is because it counts as a 4 door.

MWisBest

My uncle (the mechanic into American cars mainly) has suggested that I look into getting something with a GM 3.8L V6, as there are parts everywhere for it so it's cheap to fix and it's something that he'd be able to easily work on (I called my dad before I talked to my uncle, and apparently my uncle called my dad asking what kind of car he should suggest to me. My dad told me he said "Something you can easily work on."). I'm taking this advice into consideration, but I'm still leaning towards an RX-8 after reading these posts below about insurance costs. My uncle was surprised (in a good way) that I wanted something with a manual transmission at least, lol.

Glad to hear there's at least a few people here that can tell I'm not somebody who is going to beat the car to hell, and will take care of it and that I won't "absolutely" crash it. Thank you.

Yeah, it's definitely not something that you can just change the oil every 7,000 miles and not worry about anything else. I totally understand that, and I think a good thing about having a car that I have to take care of so much is it can prove to people who doubt that I'm responsible (plenty of people, sadly) that I can be responsible. I'm definitely going to need a co-signer when I finally get a loan from the bank (I'm not going to have any credit I'm sure), and my parents are giving me the impression that they won't be doing that with me. Not sure how that's going to work out.

Yeah I was thinking that insurance wouldn't really be as much as people were saying. Although the RX-8 is considered a "sports car" by some people, insurance companies seem to just think of it as a cheap, 1.3L low-power engine, 4 door car, from what I've gathered. I still have to talk with some insurance agents and I'll probably try talking to whatever company my mom or dad gets their insurance through, as I could probably put my car under their policy and get a "multi-car discount" or something. I'm mostly an A student as well, which would again help with a discount.

If I knew I would be driving the car all the time, putting more than 11,000-12,000 miles or so on it every year, I would consider gas mileage. Since it looks like it'll spend more time in the garage than average (not because of being broke down, because I don't really have anywhere to go!), I'm not overly concerned about it. If the car can average 20MPG with gentle driving it's good enough for me, and the RX-8 should handle that fine. The RX-8 will put a smile on my face every time I even just look at it, turn the wheel, step on the gas, even just turning it on. I think if I love my car that much there's no way I wouldn't take care of it!

We just got some freezing rain yesterday or the day before, so winter is still going on. It shouldn't last too much longer. Last year, we had motorcycles out riding around at the beginning of March, so this year is worse than last year. I could potentially be dealing with icy roads from late November to late March if the temperatures keep going above and below freezing like they did this year! Would you suggest I get an RX-8 with traction/stability control (and of course ABS brakes) since I would be dealing with slick roads for, potentially, 1/3 of the year? Or was it controllable enough for you without traction/stability control (if you had it off or your RX-8 doesn't have it)? I'd let the car idle for a while when I first start it just to warm up the interior at least so I don't freeze to death anyways, so waiting shouldn't be a problem. I definitely realize that if I don't want the engine to die that I have to let it warm up completely before I turn it off. Not sure if I'd be comfortable with any redlines in the winter, unless maybe I had been driving down a highway for 20 miles or minutes or so!

Thank you very much, this is definitely one of the most helpful posts I've had in this thread.

With "cost of living", were you paying rent and other bills like that? I'm probably not going to be having any expenses like that, although even if I am still living at home I'd probably chip in at least $150 or so a month for my mom paying for stuff like electricity and whatnot.

Thanks for the post.

thomthoms3

iTrader: (1)

My RX-8 has traction and stability control, and let me tell you, it is a very good combination when it comes to winter conditions. For fun sometimes I'll turn it off and take a corner, but that thing will slide when you have the controls toggled off. If you will be facing icy road conditions then I would have to say that any car, especially the RX-8 will need traction and stability control. I don't know what I would've done without it (especially because I drove bald tires the whole winter). You seem to know more about the car already than the average person so I have no doubt that you know what to do.

I could definitely be wrong in saying this, but I think all RX-8's have traction and stability control? Someone please call me out on this if I am wrong. For me at least, every RX-8 I looked at (somewhere around 20) had traction/stability control. It is for sure a helpful feature and I recommend it especially if you will be facing winter conditions a lot of the time per year. Good luck in your choice-making!

-T

MWisBest

When I was looking on cars.com at RX-8s, some listed having Traction Control equipped and some didn't. When I went to Kelly Blue Book to get a value, Traction Control was unchecked by default, so that was what lead me to assume that it is an optional feature. I'll look into it more.

Thanks.

xexok

For 09+ rx8s the sport model does not have tcs or dsc. I'm not sure about series 1s but it probably follows the same thing and the very base model or maybe sport didn't have it but again I'm not 100% on the older ones.

It is definitely nice to have if you live somewhere that snows a lot but in rain it is not needed as long as you drive responsibly.

ken-x8

Series I base model does not have TCS/DSC. In the first few years those came with the "sport" package. I think they started to call the base model sport in the last couple of years of Series 1. That doesn't really confuse things when buying used because there's no trim level label. Figuring trim level is a pattern matching game against each year's option list.

The presence or absence of the TCS/DSC button tells you if you have it or not.

I agree that it's nice to have in snow. You have to be driving like a loony tune to need it in the rain.

Ken

NotAPreppie

Agreed with a very specific caveat: On OEM tires Bridgestone RE-040 tires (and probably most low-end summer tires) when the temperature is below 50F and raining, the car can be a handful. That said, I never had a problem with all-seasons Falken 912's, Nokian WRG2's, or Bridgestone RE-11's in any rain.

thomthoms3

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the correction. I wasn't exactly sure. And it makes sense now that I never ran into any non TCS/DSC RX-8's because I never looked at any base models (having a sunroof was a must-have for me).

In rain, if you have good tires it is not needed, however, its always a good feature to have. There were maybe two times where it kicked it when I wasn't fooling around in a parking lot, but if you take your corners responsibly then you shouldn't need it for everyday driving. It is very handy however! And I still recommend finding an RX-8 that has it.

Edit: I should note that I now have replaced my bald tires with Michelin Eagle GT All Seasons. They're very quiet, handle well, and do the job!

Soapflake

I second that! Mine is an 05 base model without it and there were plenty of times I could've used the assist, especially being 20 and the rx8 being my first sports car and my first manual. I made quite a few trips to Erie, PA in the winter and driving in the snowbelt in summer tires(from the dealer) and no traction control, I found myself crapping my pants on multiple occasions. Being in Wisconsin, I'd say its a must. Just my two cents

ken-x8

I never had DSC come on in the rain with the OEM tires. Had TC kick in once at low speed in the rain, just starting from a stop and turning at the same time. Maybe I drive too much like a feeble old fart.

On slick snow with all seasons, though, I think I'd have wound up in my choice of ditches without it.

Either way, I'd always want to have it on my car. Pretty much like having a seat belt. It's been required on new cars in the US starting last year, so the actuaries are in favor of it, too.

Ken

_MJ_

The '07 RX-8 I have is a Sports trim. Normally it would not come with traction/stability control but the original owner of my car had purchased the "Performance Package" which added the system to the car.

Lucky Kid

I am 27 and just got my RX-8. I have had miata's since I was 16. I would recommend a miata, its more fun and dirt cheap. The only reason I got the RX-8 was so my son can ride in the back.

The RX-8 just seems so intolerant, I don't think it would be a good first car. Do you have 2K-3K sitting around for a motor? Can you swap a motor yourself?

Where in Wisconsin are you and when are you looking to get a car? I have my winter miata that you can compare if you are near milwaukee, otherwise my summer miata will be out come mid-april.

Cheers,
Lucky Kid

kustus

iTrader: (1)

My 8 isnt my first car, but I can relate to falling in love with one and forcing it into your budget. Honestly, its my favorite car and I would recommend it to anyone who say wants a unique sports car with some quirks that make it special. But I also had to realize all the drawbacks to it as well. If I wasnt mechanically inclined and didnt know what all it might take to keep it up and running on my own, it could be disaster. Also commonly talked about in this post fuel and insurance. Insurance is highly variable. But in most cases its still a sports car. Even if its a 4 door with a tiny engine....they will find about anything to stick you with a bigger bill. Sports car and a male driver under 24-25 is their red flag for cash. in regards to fuel economy mine gets about 14-18mpg with a well pretty healthy engine.... sometimes worse if the pedal is down. Best I have seen ever is 24.5mpg all highway! With gas going up and not the other way around it can get expensive to drive. Also with no credit if you cant someone to co-sign your interest rate will be through the roof if you get the loan. My honest advice it to spend less on a cheaper car. Please note it doesnt have to be boring to drive or anything, but with a cheaper car you are more likely to get a loan with no credit history, pay less in interest, establish credit history (to I dont know buy an rx8 down the road), if the unthinkable happens and it does get wrecked you are out a cheaper car and not your 8, and likely save cost on fuel and insurance depending on what you get. I like the miata idea. Its a fun car that can get you prepped for the 8 later on. Its cheaper, better fuel economy, easier to work on with parts everywhere, and with used sub 2002 models (in my area at least) under 6k. With low down payment you are likely to get the loan with no credit without a ridiculous APR. With the price on 8s coming down, the future looks bright for your hopes of getting one, but why rush in?

NotAPreppie

Q. F. T. That's why I switched to running the Nokians in the winter. Far less ABS and TC/DCS intervention with them than any all-season. And the only time I ever turned off TC/DCS was at autocross events.

MWisBest

I really want a car with 4 seats, but I will try to keep my mind open about 2-seaters. I'd like to be able to drive around with at least my best friends, and they're identical twins, lol. It's not like I can leave one of them out!

I'll be keeping money saved up for those kinds of unforeseen expenses. I happen to have a friend that is less than 20 or so miles away, and he fixes cars on the side and has swapped some engines before, so he might be able to do it. He could tow the RX-8 there as well, and he wouldn't charge me much for the work. I do feel that if I take care of the engine, I shouldn't have to replace it until at least just shy of 200,000 miles.

I'm up near Green Bay, so it doesn't look like I'll be able to come see your Miatas, sorry! I'm looking to get my car in a little over a year from now.

ken-x8

How tall are you and your friends? You won't get four six-footers into an 8.

Ken

Lucky Kid

I am new to the community, but from what I've seen in the used car market and on this forum, I would expect 30-60K out of a motor. I believe if you are above this range you are both lucky and good.

MWisBest

We're not very tall, so it shouldn't be an issue.


I just don't understand why everybody says you'll get such little life out of a motor! Like I said, my uncle got 190,000+ miles out of his RX-7 (not an FD, one of the other 2) and would've put more on it if he didn't have to sell it as it wasn't an appropriate family car. He figures that they only have improved the rotary engine since then and I tend to agree. If it's beaten to hell and not cared for properly I wouldn't expect more than 50k miles either! But that's not how I would treat my car. Also, if I get a 2008 model year with less than 100,000 miles, I'd still have a warranty on the engine and could just get it replaced for free if it fails the compression tests and whatnot.