When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I'm in the market for something fun and sporty. I've got an extensive history with fun and interesting cars, and one of my all time favorite anything-car-relateds is a rotary engine. I love the way it just wants to pull to the moon, the sound of one starting up, even just the subtle pulsations of it cruising around town at low speeds/rpm. They're glorious. I need a back seat that can handle child seats, and I need to be able to keep it reliable (meaning I can reliably get parts). I've been after an S2 RX8 GT manual. My daughter has health issues making covid a very serious concern, so I'm unable to fly or stay in a hotel, so I've put my distance limit at 250 miles (I live in the mountains above Denver), which would be a very long day out and back with a car inspection/purchase in the middle. In more than six months' worth of looking, not a single example at any price or condition has come up for sale. Not only is that discouraging from the perspective of just finding one at all, but S2s are nowhere near as common as S1s, and they have lots of parts that don't interchange. This gives me serious pause in terms of being able to keep the thing on the road long term.
So I've started considering other options. On paper, the Toybaru twins appear to be the RX8's spiritual successor. Very very similar across a dozen metrics. The lack of the suicide doors makes accessing the back seat a little more difficult, but probably not world endingly so (this is my second most significant concern after the fact that it's not a rotary engine). Price of entry is at least double the RX8, but money isn't really that much of a concern for this purchase (though a new BRZ is the max that I'm willing to spend). Flat fours are also pretty great engines. The new Toybarus share an engine with some SUV, and the SUV is turbocharged from the factory, so I suspect the power deficiency concerns of the first generation will disappear in a hurry. Reliability, parts availability, and even just raw numbers on the road for scavenging parts way down the road put the vote in the Toybaru's corner all day long. Never mind Toyota/Subaru's overall track record for reliability across the board.
But I love rotary engines... The RX8 is at most half the price, better rear seat access, and rotary. Did I mention rotary?
I know the bias here will lean hard in the RX8 direction, but talk me into/out of whichever you way feel the stronger case can be made.
I bought a '04 GT in '12 with low miles in very good condition.
I got 8 years and +80k out of it before it started dying around the 100k mark.
I drove it with a bad cat at the beginning not knowing how much damage I could've been doing to it.
It was pretty dependable in that stretch except for 3 batteries and 2 fuel pumps but those were pretty easy fixes.
It was the best handling, most fun car I ever had, and held up against new ones I rented for 2k mi. road trips.
I took it on 2 of those trips and it was as comfortable and quiet as any new one I rented, and more comfortable than most, and I have a bad back.
It's been sitting for a couple of years but I hope to get it running again with another engine.
Is this a weekend car or a daily driver? Taking into consideration your daughters health conditions, if this was to fill the purpose of a daily, I'd go with the Toybaru.
Long story short, my wife and I will be sharing her JKUR as our DD if the roads are meh or worse. Said another way, this will essentially be my DD, but only when the weather is nice. Take daughter to whatever fun stuff we eventually get to do when the roads are clear, and probably put it up over winter when we put the studs on the Jeep. It's rare we leave the house more than once a week, together or separately. That will hopefully increase in the coming year, but It's unclear when or to what extent.
2 years ago I found my s2 with 13k on it for a very fair price.
Just picked up a super clean s1 two weeks ago.
I think they can be very reliable. Just keep looking. Takes some time.
If looking for rwd coupe, my vote is for the new GR86 if you can swing the payments.
The 86 is a super cool car imo. Looks great in person, will have a ton of aftermarket support, involved in dedicated racing series, etc (possibly domestic). It also seriously rips. The blog below is from a guy who swapped a set of aftermarket wheels / tires and bestedthe current 'spec miata' Roelbling track record of 1:21.9.
Took me a second to dig this up, decent unbiased comparison video imo. I'm not a fan of any North-American supposed 'auto-journo' so instead I prefer to watch Japanese reviews. I hope you don't mind the Best Motoring video; they generally are of much higher quality (for many reasons).
For the price of a new BRZ, can you snag a BMW 1M? That would be my choice in the class.
I don't really see parts interchangeability being a problem. Unless you're planning to bounce it off the walls and need body panels, the NC Miata and both gens of RX8 share a lot of common factors. I can't think of a scenario where you wouldn't be able to source what you need.
Since I started looking back in November or so, there have been a sort of total of three S2s all said and done. The first one checked every. single. one. of my boxes. The day I finally decided to pull the trigger, I had been looking at the specific car for however many days it had been listed, refreshed the listing before dinner, discussed the specifics with my wife over dinner, then went to go contact the seller, and over the course of whatever we ate that evening, it was gone. Missed it by hours. This is the "sort of" part of the "sort of total", because technically it was gone before I technically started looking.
The second was manual and an S2, I think reasonable miles, but those were the only checked boxes. Wrong trim, least desirable color, and pretty beat up. Definitely a city car. However many months I was into the search, I was feeling that if it were good and tight mechanically, and everything felt good, I'd probably compromise and go for it anyway. I set up a deal with the seller to go check it out, and by the time I got down there (an hour's drive each way), he changed his mind, so I came back empty handed again.
The above R3 is the sort of third to come up at all since November. I didn't miss it per se... I had an appointment, was en route to go check it out, and the salesbro (carefully chosen word right there) informed me once I was down in the flats and all the way down town that it was no longer available. I pressed him on it, and it turns out it was in a wreck, may not actually be an R3, and they were returning it to auction to get their money back or something like that. That's all the information I could get on it. Case closed.
Feel free to ping me on anything you find. I'm checking FBPM in four ways (vehicle, "RX8", "RX 8", and "RX-8" on a 500mi radius), Craigslist ("RX8"|"RX-8"|"RX 8" in every market SW of a line drawn from Houston to Seattle), eBay (1000mi radius), CarGurus (500mi radius), and the classifieds here.
I'm looking for 09-11 GT, manual, in good physical shape, less than... 80k miles, color preference is blue (if I find an R3) > white or gray > black or red, but not sure I'd turn one down over color at this point. Mechanical problems are almost preferred since I can deal with them, but it would make getting it home more challenging depending on distance.
It sounds like you're leaning heavily towards the S2 rx8. My recommendation is to simply keep doing what you're doing. I would change 1 thing though.. make it a nationwide search, and budget in shipping a car to you. Also use autotempest to assist with the craigslist search. Don't specify the transmission, since many can be mislabeled. Use the pictures to help filter out the wrong ones... like any S2 with a wing spoiler that's not an R3 is an automatic. Unless the previous owner modified it.. which is 99% not the case. Use the spec decks 2009, 2010, and 2011 to really nail down the options you're looking for. The car is out there, it just takes time. For shipping, I've used Montway 2 or 3 times now. They seem to be decent. You can also use a company called U-Ship to get quotes from multiple transport companies. I had paid for a regular shipment when I purchased my 2010 GT in Texas. Ended up being a private shipper using a 2 car enclosed trailer. As long as the car isn't lowered in any way.. shipping them is easy.
Oh, my goodness! You have not had a good time. I feel for you. "Salesbro" for sure. I'd have a hard time keeping my cool if I found out it wasn't available once I got there.
I had a similar, but not as bad, situation about 2.5 years ago. I called a dealership about a vehicle and set up a time to come check it out after work the next day. It was only about 45 minutes away. Before I drove down there, the sales guy called and said the vehicle posted for sale was in a wreck (hit a turkey) so they decided to auction it off. "Well, why the heck did you list it for sale, if it you hadn't made a decision on it?!?". I mark that up to typical used car sales lot MANAGEMENT.
In my searching, I had 2 sales guys say "Oh, I can find anything you want." I gave them my "must haves" and never heard back from either of them. The only guy I heard back from was the sales guy from the place that decided to auction the vehicle instead. He checked back later to see if I was still looking.
I ended up flying from Oregon to Minnesota to buy the rig I have now, and I drove it back. My wife and I got to visit Yellowstone for the first time, so that was a nice bonus!
I'm essentially doing a nationwide search, and actually used autotempest (searchtempest actually, since it gives me a little more direct control of the CL interface) to get my CL market searches set up. The mile radii listed are essentially the max available on the various platforms. I'm just focusing on markets where I'm less likely to find rust. My RX7 was a salt state car, and that's why it had to go in the end. I LOVED that thing; suspension was incredible, engine was phenomenal, but it was a total turd nugget.
I'm not filtering on any of my preferences for the exact reason you stated, I'm just stating my preferences on the off chance someone happens to find one I missed somehow like the poster above me did (not that I missed it, but he found one).
I used to go through about 2 cars/year, and had between 2-4 at a time. I'm pretty good at finding them and getting them (and me) back in one piece. I've done several fly-n-buys with the longest being over 1700 miles, and I've shipped cars from as far away as Hawaii, using everything from professional haulers to guys with a trailer that a buddy knew, so I'm familiar with that, and it may come to that. Given my experience with the R3 referenced above and the overall reputation of RX8s as cheap cars for "tuners", I'm a little hesitant to ship one without having gone over it first. For all that, I can't find this one for the life of me. My daughter's health situation limiting my range is definitely an issue, and maybe more of an issue than I've been giving it credit. Until I opened up the search recently, I was limiting myself to 250 miles, because that's as far as I think I can get out and back with an inspection/transaction in the middle. Hotels and flights are only an option if I can convince my wife to be a single parent for a two week quarantine, which she wouldn't agree to, and I wouldn't ask of her. Now that I've opened it up, there still aren't any cars that check all or even many boxes available. Over the winter, I thought there might be a seasonal element, but it's like 100 degrees in Austin today, so that's not a thing any more if it ever was...
I ended up flying from Oregon to Minnesota to buy the rig I have now, and I drove it back. My wife and I got to visit Yellowstone for the first time, so that was a nice bonus!
I lived the Roadkill life long before Roadkill was a thing. I bought an '84 M1009 CUCV out of Idaho several years ago, and took the scenic route through Yellowstone on that one too. First retrieval trip without a breakdown of my own. I did find a poor guy in a Suburban with a flat along one of those stretches of road in Wyoming that begin with a sign saying something like "Ain't nothing for hundreds of miles, so make sure you're good or you could die". I knew my lug spacing was the same as his, so I loaned him my spare to get to the next island of civilization. Offset was wrong, so we had to move wheels around front/rear to get it to fit, but we made it. I owed a LOT of roadside karma by then, so it was nice to pay some back!
If you ever need someone to look at a car in the SoCal / San Diego region I can always look over the car for you. I bought my 2010 GT after lots of videos and pics from the seller. Then I had a friend who'd I've known for years who has an FD give it a test drive. Plus I like looking at Rx8's and talking about them.. so for me it's something to kill a few hours with. I'm sure there are others in various other regions that might offer the same sort of service. Helps you not to have to drive / fly to pick up the car.
The rx8 is a unique experience. There no true substitute. It's not perfect though but the Rotary engine is intoxicating and kissing that 9000rpm makes each drive a fun one.
I've driven the first gen toybarus. Its quite good. But lack the handling depth of the rx8. The boxer engine is just rough at high rpms. That said the new generation looks like a great improvement. I'd buy a used 2-series if I want a modern coupe.
The coupe part is pretty neutral in my book. Maybe even a slight demerit. I've had woefully pretty cars. My '57 Karmann Ghia was a show stopper. Truth be told, I've liked the ugly ones better. VW bus, FJ40, hell, my FC RX7 was certainly no looker. One thing I really like about the RX8, at this point in my life anyway, is the suicide doors for the access they give to the back seat. My kid is tiny (0.1 percentile), so it's not the worst thing in the world getting her into a car seat, but that won't always be the case (hopefully), and the second child won't likely have similar issues. Not that I expect a linebacker baby or anything, my wife and I are both small, but I'm not going to get any younger as they get older, and even 20 pounds that low and under a roof is a bit of a strain. That's not to say the extra doors are high on the list by any means (engine, drivetrain, suspension, and brakes are all ahead of that with the two extra seats), but it's definitely in the "pro" column. It's come to my attention that I'm an "old dad". 36 with a two year old, and possibly another if we can get her health situation sorted well enough to handle a second. A sedan, or really awesome would be a fast wagon if such a thing existed in budget, would be peachy.
Last edited by spectre6000; 05-07-2022 at 10:50 AM.
I still suggest the GR86. It's a brand new vehicle, comes with a warranty, proper w/p ratio, more economical (20/27/22mpg), etc. Plus there'll be tons of community and aftermarket support. There's a glorious future ahead of the GR.
If considering sedan or hatch back, why not consider the new Mazda3 turbo? While not a true 'hot hatch,' I think it's one of the nicest vehicles mazda has ever produced. Lots to like imo, just go take a turbo for a drive.
I also very much like the BMW 135 or 1M suggestion. I think the 1M will potentially be hard to find (and more than likely 'expensive') but I imagine 135's shouldn't be too hard to find. Approx 10 years ago in the club I track with, I knew a guy who had a modded 135. Even though he had more power in a newer platform, he couldn't keep up with my s1. I remember him looking at my car with this befuddled look on his face like 'why is this car so much faster than my own?' His buddy had a black e92 coupe (that I though was super sweet at the time) and we used to go at it lap after lap. Great memories.
At the end of the day, I'm a mazda enthusiast so that's where my loyalties ultimately lie but the GR Corolla is pretty temping if I'm being totally honest.
Transverse engines are a non-starter. New, warranty, etc. are nice, but I went years very intentionally not owning a car newer than me. I like wrenching, and new with a warranty is pretty well counter indicated on that front. It certainly has its value and merits, but its significance is about on par with the color of the upholstery.
One of the biggest things that makes me pause on the BMWs is, ironically, oil consumption. Rotaries consume oil, but that's intentional and good. BMWs seem like they all consume about the same amount of oil, but it's due to poor break in, poor maintenance, manufacturing/engineering deficiencies, etc. No sins to forgive on the one hand, unforgivable sins on the other... I might have said above, that a BMW 335i was a distant third in this mental exercise. I know, despite being able to make significant power, the chassis just can't keep up with the other two. More spacious and comfortable, for sure, but just not as good. Significant compromise where I'm not yet ready to admit defeat.
Not to shill for BMW but a 1M is a verry different story from a vanilla 135. No idea about pricing/availability in your area, they're a bit unobtanium, but it appears so are 8's?
Anyway, to throw out another option that might open doors: look for a cheap 8 with a blown engine and replace the engine. Given that the youngest 8 is 11 years old now, original engines are going to be a liability more than an asset. May as well start with a clean slate, and there are a lot of blown 8s around the country in salt-free climates you could get shipped over in a non-running state.
An RX8 with a blown engine would be ideal, save that it would call serious questions into the PO's standard of care. Swapping an engine, or preferably rebuilding it myself, sounds like a great weekend or two. The state of the body, interior, etc. will all likely be sub par to go with the engine though. Or at least that's been my experience so far. Still, certainly not ruling anything out. Haven't seen anything one way or another.
05-05-2022, 11:45 AM
