Jaisin

I am really fascinated with this, but I have READ AND READ (Searched) and I still don't understand how to do it exactly so I decided to make this thread(specifically for this). Maybe I have small feet or something. Can a few of you help me a little bit more. I have even been on Google, but its probably more helpful here since we are all in the same car.

I tried it earlier today, but it seemed like I kept applying too much brake presure and I couldn't really "blip" the throttle.

Zootx8

Ball of the foot on the brake, right side on the gas. It takes a lot of practice, but you'll get it. Just push down on the brake, with the ball of the foot, and bilp the gas by rolling the right side down slightly to the gas. The 8 has great pedal placement where this is easy to do once you get the hang of it. (Heel Toe is a kinda of a confusing name for the technique, more like ball/side)

gansan

See my video, previously posted:

https://www.rx8club.com/showpost.php...14&postcount=7

expo1

Here is another way to try. This vid is in an RX-8 and is also 17 megs

http://www.mymazdarotary.com/rx-8_vi...ime-attack.avi

Zootx8

Great videos, I don't have one, but I do find it easier to do with the ball of my foot and the side of my foot. I've been told it's a personal preference thing.

spork

As a racing n00b I have to ask...
wtf is heel to toe used for? I've seen people do it in racing videos. I'm not sure what it's supposed to do for you.

expo1

This link might help

http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/how...2/article.html

magixpuma

gan san Is that you holy **** !!! all i gotta say

Jaisin

Wow, Thanks a lot. That helped me a lot more in understanding what it going on.

Jaisin

Thanks for the great article. That makes me feel like I can do it (since I am the average person).

8is>enuff

It's used to match revs on a downshift. While braking. Approaching a turn (usually).
Rev matching will make your shifts and therefore your driving smoother by keeping the revs somewhat constant. If you can do it while braking and then accererate through a turn, you will go through a turn quickly.
By comparison, braking while downshifting and popping the clutch will unsettle the car (engine braking on the rear wheels)

Jaisin

You are a genious. I did that and it worked. The video helped, but the guy in the video seemed to use his heel to blip the throttle. It appears to me that the postion of the throttle in the RX-8 is to far back to be reached by the heel of the foot without applying too much pressure to the brake.

I tried your way and it was a lot easier. I did ten laps around my block. Each time I shifted down from 3rd to 2nd. I feel more comfortable with the movement. It isn't very smooth at the moment, but only time will tell.

It will end up like anything else. Practice make perfect! :D When I got my 8, I didn't know how to drive manual and I wasn't even thinking about heel-toeing. Now I am! :D Thanks guys for helping me.

gansan

I'm glad it helped. The first one is turn 2 at Willow Springs, the second one is turn 3, in an ex-World Challenge Integra (which is why it is so loud).

What you are saying about the brake pedal being too high is true when you're on the street. On a racetrack approaching a turn, you are pressing the brakes very, very, hard, and the pedal is a lot lower. So if you ever find yourself at a track, you'll find that the relationship of the pedals is not the same as you practiced on the street.

However, the timing and feel is completely the same, and it is worth practicing on the street every day, for every stoplight, if you want it to come naturally on the track. Then when you are on the track you just have to adjust your foot position to accomodate the brake pedal sinking a lot lower as you brake harder.

Jaisin

So... Its okay to use your heel to brake and the ball of your foot to blip the gas? Or is that cheating?

Zaku-8

I think he had small feet. wearing shoes i normally wear the footwell is too small for me to rotate 90degrees and try to heel-toe... ts more like ball-arch that way. Like zoot said it's a lot easier to straddle the gap.

Jaisin

I wear about a size 7 in dress shoes and an 8.5 in other stuff (sometimes 9).

mhapner

I just graduated from Skip Barber Racing School in Sept. at Laguna Seca. We drove the Formula Dodge cars...we used heel/toe to match revs in order get the car into a lower gear. Those cars don't have a syncro ring like a street cars does. It's real hard to get into a lower gear without matching revs.
That video of the RX-8 at Laguna was great!!! Exactly what I got to do for 3 days. The best 3 days I've ever had!!

shakRpahX8

Whats the MAx speed for rx8???
that guy from the clip is doin 150 easy on the track

Zootx8

Jaisin,
glad to hear you are figuring it out, practice will make perfect.

spork

that's probably kilometers per hour.

thanks for the article expo

nolarx8

[QUOTE=spork]that's probably kilometers per hour.

thanks for the article expo[/QUOTE
you g** bastard i did 143 mph, pre-mods on I-10

zevans

More power to your elbow (or knee in this case) if you can do that - most people just don't have enough sensitively in the heel to modulate braking well if you try it that way.

I see the example in that web page is 4th to 3rd... that would be braking from at least 90mph in an 8. :D

I've seen a few Jap drivers use their whole heel on the throttle in videos, especially Tsuchiya-san... there's a bit in the Drift King video when he's driving a Miata and looks like he's trying to put out a fire on the pedal by stamping on it, and somehow he keeps his toe on the brake as he does it. I think the small feet thing might be right since it's Japs that seem to do it.

Some more thoughts...

Shoes help - I can't do it at all in my work shoes or anything with thick soles. Deck shoes are OK. Pro driving shoes look like ballet shoes, but then if you watch a rally driver doing his stuff on the pedals it does look remarkably like ballet. (And if you're a rally driver you've got to think about using your left foot on the brake sometimes too...)

Practicing with the engine off helped me as someone else has said.

It's actually easier when you're threshold braking because the brake pedal is much closer to the floor and you just have to move your foot sideways a bit to be able to blip the throttle. When you're using normal road braking the throttle feels like it's closer to the floor than the brake pedal and so you end up with your heel further away from you than the ball of your foot which feels very odd.

An instructor suggested practicing on steep downhills for this reason - you have to have the brakes on harder, going downhill (well, duh) and it's also easier to tell if you've accidentally come off the brakes a little (which is what I always do )

HeelnToe on here suggested putting your knees together "like a girl" when you're doing it - does help a bit!

Gearbox theoretical max isn't far away from 200mph - actual max will depend on aero and power mods. I think anyone should be able to see 140mph but you need a pretty long straight. (I got to 137 on a German autobahn but someone was overtaking about 1/2 mile ahead so I had to slow again.) I was still in 5th, but 6th is geared so long you might see Vmax in 5th not 6th due to higher torque at the wheels.

Getting speed off into tight corners is the biggest problem I have on track, must practice more!

mhapner

I agree...shoes do help.
As does pedal placement....doesn't get much better than in a race car.

view inside the Formula Dodge car I drove:

RX8rider

Do you guys recommend using the heel-toe technique for the AT tiptronic too? Will i gt the same results?

expo1

Nope, if you have a Clutch pedal in your AT equipped 8 you need to see your dealer ASAP