FredB

8_wannabe.....almost did it for all the same reasons. I envy you guys and who knows....I may still make the plung and get one. That red with red and black interior was soooo sweet. I'm around your ages too, a little bit older maybe. So I don't think I'll be doing this in say 20 yrs either.

I guess I should have at least gone for my test drive....got my deposit worth. It's a refundable deposit but it would have at least allowed me to experience the RX-8. Now I'll never know, lol.

Lensman

For you UK folks and anyone else willing to do the conversions here is a useful comparison tool. It's amazing to see which cars get the same mpg as the RX-8: BMW M3 anyone? It really is in SUV and limo territory which is rather poor considering that the performance isn't THAT good.

Doctorr

I pity you if you deny yourself the joy of driving the car you want, just so you can take joy in feeling superior to SUV drivers.

A somewhat hollow victory.
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Lensman

I think you're missing the point: he isn't doing it to feel superior to SUV drivers but because the SUV is a benchmark of inefficiency and the RX-8 is approaching that benchmark. He would feel hypocritical (having derided SUV engines in the past) if he purchased a similarly efficient engine. It won't stop me buying an RX-8 but I applaud the man for sticking to his principles.

FredB

Oh come on doctorr, it's really a lot more than that. And I don't at all feel superior to them. Although I do feel that we californians are way out of control when it comes to SUV's. A lady at work just bought one (Expedition) to commute. They put the largest looking rims and tires, 23" I think. The truck gets maybe 10 mpg if she's lucky pollutes much more than most of the cars on the road today. It would destroy anyone of our cars if we were involved in an accident with her. It blocks the view of all but the largest trucks when next to other vehicles on the road. I could go into American thirst for energy and how it selfishly far outstrips any other country in the world but I won't because this isn't the place really.

I don't think I'm denying myself really, but making a decision that right for me only (not you and I didn't imply that at all) and my beliefs. Like I said in earlier posts, I understand the motivation to buy an RX-8 and NEVER put anyone down for buying one. But for me the economy is just a little bit disappointing and I expected more without the turbos, new porting, etc. In fact Mazda hinting as much early on. If time proves that the car gets low 20's (even 20) with time around town (and conservative driving) then I'll change my opinion and consider that a good compromise of economy and performance. It's still a great car just not the car of my choice for now.

Renesis08

Hey FredB,

I am in the same boat as you now. I am going to Hine tomorrow and tell them to sell my car . I have family financial obligations to take care of. Not only that the gas issue that everyone talks about scares me off a little. Just like you Fred I am currently driving a CRX and averaging ~350+ on a tank. I know gas shouldn't be the deciding factor and it's NOT for me anyways.

I would be skimming it very tightly right now as my car came in a month earlier than expected (I told Eladio to put me in the 3rd allocation which would be a mid AUG delivery, but I think he bumped me up to 2nd allocations). I was planning to pay in full (I was taught by my financial advisor to pay cars cash) but with other financial obligations right now... that would mean financing the car which would be a big no no in my books. Just finished off student loans, I would dred more monthly payments.

I may have to wait a couple more months now or even wait until a '05. So does Hine write you a check back if you cancel by phone? I plan on going in just to say bye bye to my car , for now that is. I will have it soon though. For those with their cars congrats!

FredB

I just told them to mail the check to me, but I'm thinking of going in tomorrow too to get the check and see if they sold mine. Crazy huh....it's a pretty cool car.

8_wannabe

Man, I am really sorry to see you guys bail on this but I can totally understand. If I hadn't gotten my car last Thursday and I'd really be having second thoughts. But, I've got it, I'm enjoying it, so I'll choose not to worry about it.

For the record, here's my stats. I ran a half tank, topped off, and started my trip odometer. Just filled up after running 212 miles and I got 17 mpg. I'm burning 89 octane.

Offsetting factors: Driving was about 1/3 city, 1/3 freeway, 1/3 twisties (sorry, couldn't wait. I made the run to Julian today.) In the future, it'll be 50/50 city/freeway so maybe it'll improve. Secondly, ran the A/C half the time (it's pretty hot and humid these days.) My driving style will calm down soon. There's a good chance I'll get close to 20 mpg before long.

Renesis08

8_wannabe what part of La Jolla you from. I'm in the UCSD area a lot. Maybe I'll see you around. If you see someone giving you a Thumbs Up in a white CRX that's me. :D

787B

I think those of you who have disparaged Mazda for its claims are being a little disingenuious.

That Mazda has increased power from @180BHP in the previous non turbo, to its new level, whilst meeting all required emissions targets, AND INCREASING fuel efficiancy states just how much they have done. remember, this engine has just won International engine of the year, AND by the biggest most unaminious margin in the awards history.

Mazda is to be applauded for making this progress, especially as they are, and have been pioneering this technology on their own, and they dont have the collective efforts that the piston engine enjoys from the worlds auto makers.

Living in the UK where we pay probably some of the highest fuel prices anywhere, i am all too sensitive to these costs

What I would say to those of you that do high mileages, or where fuel cost is an issue, IF YOU ARE ON A BUDGET, you will find more efficent cars, and if fuel cost is AN ISSUE, you would be better looking elsewhere.

However, if its smiles per miles you measure driving pleasure by, you WILL NOT find a better compromise than a Rx.

DannyA

Nicely said 787B. Go into it with your eyes open and you won't be dissapointed. Every single other aspect of this car really is remarkable including the basic price (which comes with soooo much equipment). People just have to be careful not to buy it and then leave it in their garage because they can't afford to run it!!

Maybe you should all start car shaing - it carries four and all your passengers will have big smiles on your faces! I car share with two other guys and have cut the number of miles I drive to the office down from 25,000 to 15,000 per year.

B-Nez

Sure, rub it in, why don't ya... :D
J/K - I'm so relieved my car did not arrive before we closed on our new house.

Edit: Back on topic...when my car arrives I'll post my numbers (derived from the amount of gas GOING IN at the pump). My daily commute is 64 miles - half HWY @75'ish, and half in town from 25-65 (hmm...velocity red...better make that 25-50!) - not counting any errand-running in town or on base.

8_wannabe

Hiya, Renesis. I'm up by Soledad Mountain Road, but I get up to LJ Village Drive pretty often. I'll keep an eye out for you. Is your 8 on the way yet?

RX8-U-UP

B-Nez, I can't wait to see your car! Make sure you get us a pic. Look at it this way, you'll be the first in CV! I just wanted to make a point that at some point in your life, you just have to let your hair down!

By the way, on the milage I posted for 16.1 first tank and 16.6 second tank, the A/C was on 95% of the time, and this was all in town driving on very busy tourist roads. It took us almost 30 minutes to get a couple of miles on old Highway 98 down by the beach. We just don't get on the highway that much.

rxeightr

The 1st tankful which was 93 octane I got 21.4 mpg. The 2nd tankfull will be better, as it was all highway driving to our vacation destination. I presently have 285 miles on this tank with slightly less than 1/4 tankful. The gas gauge looks to be accurate based upon miles driven per 1/4 tank increments.

This is better than most SUV's running the roads, and 100% more fun.

Before taking possession of my RX-8, I compared the additional costs of having to use premium gas and lower fuel economy, which figured in my case to be $700 / year.

I believe it will be the funnest and best $ 60 / month I spend.

No regrets here.

FredB

Not too bad 8_Wannabe. I'm sure that drive to Julian was spectacular in the RX-8. 17 mpg was what I got with my 93 RX-7 under the best of conditions of combined driving. That is I took it nice and easy, light throttle shifting at 4-5K. With the slight stutter that some of the RX-7's suffered (some thought it was the transition from small injectors to large) it was difficult to drive like that and easier and smoother to give it more gas avoiding that damn irritating stutter. I noticed that the RX-8 has three sets of injectors so below 4k it might be much more fuel efficient where just the smaller injectors are employed. But above 4k is where the fun begins. I found I really could enjoy the cars handling/experience, etc without having to nail it at every stop light so most of the time I was around 15+ mpg around town.

How warm does the console area feel to you? I've heard some comments that it seems warm around the shifter area to some. The fan running after stopped really isn't an issue for me. It just lets me know that Mazda learned something from the RX-7. Most of us had to modify our cars to cause the fan to run for 10 min after stopped. It did help a lot. The new RX-8 also has larger coolant passages around the exhaust port due to the side mounting from what I've read so that should help remove the heat better. Of course not having the 100,000+ RPM turbos sanwitched in there doesn't hurt either!

ggreen29

I took a drive last evening and noticed that because the engine is so quiet and smooth it was really easy to do most of my driving at 5k rpm or better. As I said before, once I get used to it and do most of my cruising at 3k rpm or so, I expect the mpg should improve quite a bit.

Doctorr

Mr. Wannabe says he got 17mpg?

If you use the 89 octane cheap stuff, the knock sensors will cut in and retard your ignition, wasting your gas energy as heat - you will have less power, more waste heat, and the extra heat will equal even LESS power and mileage.

Why would you do that?
I hope you don't think you are saving money........
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FredB

That the one thing that the RX-7 has in common with the RX-8. You just didn't realize how quick it was. It was so smooth, linear, and quiet. That is until you happened to notice that you were going 20-30 mph faster than you thought. It was so deceiving.

8_wannabe

From the owner's manual, page 5-9:
"For normal acceleration, we recommend these shift points
1 to 2 14 mph
2 to 3 23 mph
3 to 4 29 mph
4 to 5 36 mph
5 to 6 46 mph"

Except for the first two transitions, I am going much faster when I shift (about 35/45/60 for the last three.) If you follow their recommendations, you'll be running in the 3500-4000 rpm range. So, in response to FredB's comments, yes this would probably keep you on the first (small) set of injectors and increase fuel efficiency. Like ggreen, once I get used to the car I will run closer to these recommendations.

It has been noted the car really starts to get fun around 5500 rpm and I def agree with that. At 5500 in 4th/5th gear you've got great torque/acceleration and you can rocket through any gap in traffic you might see. I might have reached 7000 once, rarely get to 6500. Folks have said (after breakin) you should redline a rotary maybe once a day to keep the engine clean. This may or may not be true, but I have trouble envisioning myself doing it (though I will try.) This car just goes nuts above 7000 so hang onto your hats.

Finally, to answer FredB's question, it gets pretty warm around the center console. Not so much the shifter, but the storage compartments are warmed, ambient air temp in the cabin is warm though I don't feel any radiant heat from the engine. Air blows from the vent slightly warmed meaning if you have the fan on you're probably gonna want the AC. Keep in mind this is in the midst of a San Diego heat wave. There are conditions where I would welcome that heat, but not just now. The shifter itself isn't particularly warm. None of this is really uncomfortable or even that extreme, but it's something you notice once your other sensor stimuli wear off. It was near the end of the second day that both my son and I (and others on this forum) commented on this. It's nothing to really sweat (haha, pun) but I wish they had taken more care with the air vent ducting so it could blow into the cabin at outside ambient temperature. It's proabably getting heated about 5 degrees, so having the fan blow directly on you doesn't really give a cooling sensation on your skin. You feel like you're being warmed by the air flow. This effectively takes away the option of using the fan without AC to help fuel economy.

8_wannabe

Read my other posts on how I have been driving. Just about everyone who has posted thus far has gotten 16-17 mpg on their first tankful or two. Considering how I used that gas, I'd say I'm def on the high end of the mpg experience so far. I'll keep tracking and posting, and probably start getting into 87 octane before long. This is in accordance with the owner's manual which says, "You may use a regular unleaded fuel with Octane Rating from 87 to 90 but this will slightly reduce performance."

Rehashing many long discussions from earlier posts, I am not close to reaching maximum performance from this vehicle so losing a few percent in that regard doesn't bother me in the least. And performance is not mileage; I am aware of no studies that show higher octane = greater mpg. I just don't believe it. So, I'll keep posting here over the weeks or months with my "cheap stuff" and you keep doing so as well. Let's find out through real metrics whether the lower octane has any measureable effect. I'm willing to be the guinea pig here.

Edit A cursory web search yielded the following on a Shell Oil web page:

Q. Will I get better mileage by using gasoline with a higher octane rating?
A. Octane does not directly affect gas mileage, but it can affect your car's overall performance. The octane rating of gasoline is a measure of its ability to control conditions commonly known as "knocking" and "run-on." Start with the octane level recommended in your car's owner's manual. Move up to the next level if you experience knock or run-on.

It looks like I am the only one on the forum doing this.

FredB

Like you said we are having some muggy warm weather here. I think the same is true in my CRX and I have to use the AC all the time. There's even some hotter than normal areas in the hatch area on the CRX probably due to the exhaust system routing. Maybe when our weather patterns here get back to the normal dry conditions you can just open the vents and/or sun roof and windows and you won't even notice this. Again to compare to the RX-7, it was VERY HOT in certain areas near the turbos, even on cool days. So warm is understandable with the RX-8.

What about that octane rating. You really should be using premium if you're not and that could affect the mpg as well as the heat generated by operating with a retarded ignition timing. I don't remember but I thought premium was around 91 octane in CA or am I mistaken? Since I don't need premium I don't pay much attention to that.

Ahura

I filled up my RX-8 for the first time yesterday, and I got 20.2mpg. This was with 50/50 on city and freeway. I rarely used the A/C since it's beautiful right now in the northeast. Highs in the 70's, lows in the 50's, and little humidity. I'm shifting around 4-5krpm regularly with the occasional run to 6-7krpm. I can't wait for the 600 mile mark to pass to venture up to 9000rpm.

8_wannabe

Awesome news, Ahura. That is the best mileage I've seen posted thus far and, not coincidently, you seem to have the most moderate driving style. You give us hope.

FredB

8_wannabe. I'll just add a bit of real world experience a friend of mine had. He owns a Honda Insite and was getting around 50+ mpg but only using regular gas. I'm not sure what Honda recommends for the Insite but I think they say, like Mazda, you can use regular with reduced performance, ie retarded ignition timing. When he switched to premium his mpg increased by almost 10 mpg since the car was optimized, with it's high compression ratio, to use premium gasoline. Now I do agree that you won't increase the mpg of a car designed to use regular by using premium. In fact I think I read something that indicates you might reduce your gas mileage somewhat in that situation.

To really make your test fair, you should try a tank of premium now and then so that we can normalize your data to your driving style.

Good results Ahura! Now where did I put that deposit slip for my RX-8. Wonder if it's been sold yet!?