AF-RX8

MEGAREDS - I think you along with the other owners here need to put their foot down and let Auto magazines know this problem as well as continuing to discuss it on the internet and writing letters to Mazda.

There is no reason that in the year 2004 a new car is having this problem. An $8000 Hyundai doesn't have this issue then why should a $31,000 state of the art sports car have it.

Mazda needs to be held responsible for all flooded vehicles or else they will not have the incentive to fix it.

Quick example of something that happened when I had a 2001 BMW 330Ci. That year BMW made the steering lighter, magazines noticed it as well as many enthusiasts that bought the car & it was discussed on the internet many times over.
BMW mid year changed the steering to a heavier feel on all production cars and gave every owner of the early model a new revised steering rack for free plus loaner car while your car was serviced.

Now everyone who purchased this Model year BbMW knew the steering was light and even had a chance to test drive it first so you could say why should they get a free rack if they knew what they were buying yet BMW still went out of their way to make the customer happy.

When I spoke to the BMWNA representative he told me one of the big reasons for offering the swap was due to the internet forums discussing it over and over again.

Sea Ray

Hi guys, I went thru my manual several times last night, and I can not find any reference to cold shut down. I found the flooded engine restart procedure but nothing else. Can someone tell me where in the manual it says no cold shut down to avoid flooding?

Thanks

Mat

I just wrote a letter to Mazda. I am very seriously considering the 8, and I am ready to deal with the "minor" issues of low MPG (compared to competitors G35, Z, S2000, etc) and oil consuption (even with the inconvenient location of the oil dipstick and tank), but that flooding issue is unacceptable.

There is so much "smarts" in this car, I just can't beleive there isn't a way to at least automate the shutdown procedure. If this gets fixed I'll be the first in line to get my loaded RX-8. Meanwhile I'll browse the competitor's showrooms...

Just my 2 cents...

f1michel

Like i said in another tread, this flooding thing is bordering on mass hysteria. I live in very cold weather and there's no problem starting the car in the AM at -20F cold! You crank it, it starts, you buckle up and drive away. It is nonsense to let it warm up 2,3,5 minutes... waste of fuel and air polution. Just make sure not to kill the engine .

AF-RX8

You should post the email address as a seperate thread so that others on the board can write them.

I know I would . . . when I borrowed my stepfathers RX8 and I almost stalled while it was cold, I seriously got very worried I would be stuck and the shopping center I went to with this 'borrowed' car.

Mat

Maybe you misunderstand what flooding is. It's not about starting your car in cold weather (you wouldn't happen to have a gray RX-8 on winter tires with no wheel caps?), but it's about having your friend/wife/yourself moving you car 5m and shutting it down cold and not being to start it up ever again, or accidentally stall the car on a stop or traffic light while it's cold and being stuck with the same problem.

f1michel

Mat, i don't know if you are relating to my post, my car is red and has no winter tires on. I drive it only if the streets are cleared of any snow in the winter months.I wouldn't wnt to have to deal with all the sand,rocks and salt our great blue collars put in the streets. As for the flooding issue, i know the reasons why it happens and i know how to prevent it, i was just refering to other posts made by poeple letting the car warm up forever just in case they would happen to kill the engine backing up from the driveway.I really think this is blow way out of proportion, and even if i do flood it (God forbid) i'll think the same way. I am very sure that Mazda Canada will cover it if it happens during my waranty period.

Blue Demon

When I first test drove a RX8 at a local dealer I stalled it when releasing the clutch. I immediately cranked it up and took off again with no problems. Second time stalling with a cold engine was mine the second day I had it, backed out of the drive way and stalled it when taking off straight. It too immediately cranked up perfectly. Guess I have been lucky both times.

Roy

red_rx8_red_int

It's not in the manual. It's in the quick start brochure/booklet.

Mat

That's interesting. Let me quote an email I got back from mazda:

begin quote
---------------------------------------------
I have driven the RX-8 for on several occasions and we have driven it
across the country and had not experienced the flooding problem.

Also, if your vehicle is flooded, it towing and the repair is covered
under the warranty.

Mazda engineers are aware of this concern and I will forward your
comments to our Product Planning Department to ensure they know exactly
what our customers are requesting.
---------------------------------------
end quote


"Also, if your vehicle is flooded, it towing and the repair is covered
under the warranty."

Hmm.....I thought the subject of this thread was the exact opposite... and my local mazda dealer also tells me flooding is not covered under warranty.

Mat

f1michel, yeah I was relating to your post, as I am from Montreal and I've only seen 1 RX-8 since (and it was gray), and I was wondering if it was yours.

The roads are soooo ugly down here that I'm amazed they even sell RX-8's

jonalan

What? You wrote a letter to Mazda complaining about a "potential" problem with a car you don't even own?

"Inconvenient location of the oil dipstick and tank"? Huh? Again, you don't even own the car and your complaining about where the oil dipstick is? Well, let me just say, the dipstick is NOT that difficult to get to. It could be easier, but it could very well be worse. Also, I don't understand your comment about the "tank". If you're referring to the oil reservoir cap, it's right on top, just like most every other car.

AF-RX8

I don't think he was writing to Mazda to complain about the oil dipstick, from the sound of it, he found only the flooding to be an issue and addressed Mazda with his concerns.

I don't see anything wrong with writing to Mazda BEFORE you buy the RX8 about the Flooding problem. If they are aware of it, then they are more liekly to work on fixing it which would benefit customers as well as Mazda.

Mat

jonalan, sorry, I didn't want to shock you.

I'm just the kind of guy who's careful before dropping 30k on a car, and I think the manifacturer is the right place to ask and get clarifications about problems people have been having. You know, learn about other people's problems?

jonalan

Fair enough. It's just that some people tend to read comments like that and think, "Oh my god, where's the oil dipstick? Underneath the rear seats or something?"

Mat

Hehe, no problems.

I'm still confused by the email statement about the warranty though... I have to admit I am kind of hopeful...

BillK

No, but it may as well be.

I've tried several times in showrooms and with the engine cover removed there's still no way I can get to the dipstick without scraping the heck out of the back of my hand trying to wedge it between components to get back to the dipstick.

Perhaps I jjust have big hands, but it is near impossible for me, and I know I would fry my hand if the engine were at all warm...

5Gen_Prelude

Just out of curiosity, what COULD be done to fix this?

rx8cited

BillK,
FYI - you are supposed to check the oil when the engine is warm - that's according to the owner's manual.

Just to clarify for newbies, removing the engine cover is not required to check the oil, only for adding oil.

I was concerned about burning my hand, but it has never happened as it is not burning hot near the dipstick handle.

IMHO checking the oil is not a big deal once you get used to it. Anyone thinking about buying the car that's concerned about it should try checking the oil on a dealership or friends car - and check it while the engine is hot to see for yourself that you won't burn your hand .

regards,
rx8cited

BillK

Haven't checked for burning, but trying it is how I found out I have to physically force my hand into the space for the dipstick each time; there's just no other way for me to reach it...

BillK

If you meant the hard to reach oil dipstick:

On other cars the fix has been to design a longer, shaped extension to the dipstick that allows it to be more easily grasped and pulled out.

Of course they also could have designed the engine compartment a bit more logically to begin with given the rotary's need for much more frequent oil checks than usual.

Finally (and IMHO the solution they should have implemented), they could have put an oil level gauge into the system. It's not difficult and would have raised retail pricing by perhaps $200 or so at most...

If you meant the flooding problem, well that remains to be seen; adding a last minute "hint brochure" on how to avoid flooding was not the way to handle it.

Personally, I wonder how the Renesis ever won "engine of the year" with these characteristics, though it is a pretty nifty piece of engineering in general...

MEGAREDS

I suspect a battle between lawyers and marketing people with the result being a compromise -- not putting the short move procedure in the manual is very strange. I'd bet it gets put in the 2005 manual.

I have a theory on that one too. The booklet I got at the dealership before I bought my car reports this - which is part of why my expectations were so high:

"Mazda has dealt with the emissions issue - it already meets the 2005 EURO 4 requirements - and has seen to it that the same vehicle can achieve a respectable 8.3L/100km (34mpg)." If this engine got 34 miles per gallon, I'd be voting for it for engine of the year for sure. When it runs (as it almost always does, BTW), it's elegant -- just beautiful, in a classic sense -- but it burns too much fuel considering its competition like the TT gets 6 miles per gallon more. I don't understand how something that goes round and round can be less efficient than something that goes up and down, up and down, up and down...

The answer to why RENESIS so easily won Engine of the Year is found in the brochure: It says, "All performance and fuel economy figures referenced in this journal are manufacturers' data and are based on EU Cycles." They used Mazda's numbers and tested what was really a different engine than the one in my car.

I don't want to derail a thread that's already way off course, but [to try to put it back on course] I suspect that the flooding issue is one that Mazda is struggling with even now. I really hope they strike the right balance between supporting their customers and keeping the RX-8 viable, so they can improve it. Whatever they decide, the language that was used in my repair invoice (quoted at the top of this thread) is totally unacceptable.

Also, if it turns out that the hotter spark plugs fix this "flooding" issue without harming the car... I want them, as I suspect everyone else will too, which may be part of the problem. It's gonna cost Mazda quite a lot if the problem is really a "fouling" problem that gets characterized a "material defect" requiring warranty service. As my dealership said, "these plugs are like $50 each."

5Gen_Prelude

Yeah I meant how would you fix the flooding problem if you were Mazda. Could an ECU program correct the problem (ie run a "shutdown" procedure), or a mechanical change?

dablues

I finally found my "flooding" invoice and it makes no mention of this being a one time warranty item. It only states the symptoms I gave and the steps taken for them to fix. In the cost column it just says warranty. If for some reason it floods again and they don't consider it warranty there probably be a long discussion. But I hope not because I don't want anything to mess with the smile I get when I'm cutting corners.

241Commuter

A shutdown procedure would take care of simple "mind-slips", And I'd love to see the look on a pimply faced valet when he turned off the key and pulled it out and the engine revs to 3000. So tell me, how do you program a shutdown for a stall due to bad clutching?

I've stalled my 8 pulling out of the garage. It started right up again and I didn't even consider that I might have screwed up big time (although the chuckle I got from my wife was bad enough). I'd still like to know if Southern Californians are immune to flooding. There's this active railroad track not far from where I live. Not a good place to flood it.