Robert

Hi all!

Haven't driven an RX-8 yet, but overall very impressed with the car's specs, looks, amenities, and "concept." It looks way better in person than in MOST photos.

I'm trying to narrow my choice down to a really eclectic trio of cars: The new Acura TL, the upcoming 2005 Mustang GT, and of course...the RX-8.

But there's several downsides to the RX-8 that I keep reading about on consumer reviews: No folding rear seats, plus limited trunk space. Many people complain of poor gas mileage (18 mpg combined); non-existent winter traction; a tendency to go through more oil; and a predilection towards flooding the engine if you don’t let the car idle for a few moments before shutting it off – prompting some people to report that the car resists starting the next time they go to use it - then they need a tow to the dealership and a fix! Plus you need to make certain you have access to a QUALIFIED rotary mechanic to service the car.

I'd love to hear owners reactions to these aforementioned "problems."

Thanks,

Robert

brothervoodoo

Seats: They recline all the way back near horizontal which would give you more room that moving them forward.

Trunk Space: You'll have to view it for yourself and make a choice. The opening could have been bigger IMO. Space covers what I need it for.

Gas Mileage: I drive mostly city and it's not very good.

Winter Traction: Can't speak directly to it. But anyone living up north has commented that you better get winter tires and it seems all good from there.

Oil: The rotary engine does consume oil as part of it's process. Mine seemed to consume more during the first couple thousand miles. I'm currently averaging a quart every 3,000 miles.

Flooding: Never came close to flooding mine. But after my own reading it seems people that have problems started and quickly shut-off the engine will it was cold. After I'm up and running, warm, I turn the engine off and on all day long, after short trips, moving the car to the other side of the street etc... no problems what so ever.

Robert

Brother:

Took a look at your RX-8 gallery. Your car is ******* gorgeous. Titanium is stunning on that car. I only wish they would offer the red/black interior combo on the titanium car - that might just make my mind up for me.

Great shots of Frisco too. It really does remind me of Vancouver in a lot of ways.

Thanks for your input. And by the way: What exactly does the manual say about how to avoid flooding? What are you supposed to do?

Cheers,

Robert

RX8_GT

Answers from an ex-Canadian - currently owner of RX-8

1: Space is limited - more so with spare tire - but has a large back seat with great access - used it the other to transport a large tool chest. Go look at it.

2. MPG is low for a 4 door sedan - but comparable to 350Z and other performance cars.

3. You should budget dedicated winter tires/wheels - even in Vancouver BC

4. Oil consumption is not high - if you do oil changes every 2500 to 3000 miles - you MAY use a quart of oil between changes. Changes this often is probably wise - as only about 2/3 the oil is changed at a time. Some of the oil stays in the oil lines and metering pump.

5. Flooding is rare in the RXs overall - full warmup is best - but there is a cold start and shutdown procedure and a flooded engine recovery procedure - the rotary engine is different than a piston - drive it and you'll see. I had a RX7 from 1985 to 1991 when I lived in northern Nova Scotia - flooded it once and recovered it easily. I have flooded my RX8 once when I did not follow the procedures for short moves - and I did not clue in to the problem until I had it good and flooded. Still the recovery procedure worked. A better battery would be great IMHO and I believe is stock in Canada. You should check.

Just my 2 cents

Robert

Here in Vancouver, I think probably winter tires would be unnecessary - I just wouldn't drive the car in snow or severe ice - dumb idea with idiot drivers on the road anyway. I'm sure it's fine in rain and frost, especially with the traction control and vehicle stability assist. We get so little snow here - maximum of a week, then it's gone. I don't mind bumming rides, using public transportation or grabbing a cab during such times anyway.

So I take it you need to let the car warm up for a couple of minutes upon first starting it, then let it idle for a couple of minutes before shutting it down (sort of like what they recommend for turbo engines)? What exactly is the "recovery procedure," anyway?

By the way, do you happen to know if the car has drive-by-wire (electronic throttle control), or if it's a standard mechanical cable? Can't find anything out on this either way.

Thanks, man.

Robert

RX8_GT

Robert:

The flooding recovery procedure is gas pedal to floor - (this cuts fuel to the engine) - and then start engine with gas pedal to floor.

If you try to drive in winter - even in Vancouver BC - with the stock tires - be sure car has the Dunlops and consider having the tires siped.

You can start the car and drive away - you do not need to warm it up to any great extent - esp in balmy Vancouver on the wacky left coast of Canada. (Wacky as in Bennett and left as in NDP - see I'm really ex-Canadaian. John

RX8_GT

Robert:

It's not drive by wire as far as I know.

John

Doctorr

I agree that winter tires in Vancouver may be un-necessary, IF you park it whenever its at all icy.
I haven't had a flood in 15000k, but it IS possible, and if you follow the procedure, no big deal.
Don't be quick to judge on the lack of folding rear seats....any car with folders is definitely NOT a sports car. The roomy rears are just a bonus in an '8. Same for trunk space, if you need folders and a trunk, buy a Focus.
The real test is the one you have yet to do.....drive one. If you don't find yourself looking past the shortcomings, in order to get the unique driving feel, then the RX-8 is probably not for you.

(Son in trunk is six feet tall)
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doc

Robert

Didya bend him like a pretzel to get him in there?!

The flooding recovery procedure sounds easy. How come some people are reporting needing to tow it to a dealer for repair?! Dumb people, maybe??

Good one...hadn't heard that before. And yeah, we're still plagued by occasional scandals!

About the nav system. Anyone got it? Does it offer voice recognition, and does it work well? And does a voice talk back to you...and is it clear?

Do the cruise and audio controls on the steering column illuminate at night?

Sorry, just thought I'd ask you guys these questions rather than the sales guy, who nine times out of ten, doesn't know.

As to the trunk space issue, I guess being able to fold the passenger seat all the way forward, combined with the rear door access, would enable one to fit something pretty sizeable back there in a pinch, like a small chair or a floor plant, or a computer box.

Finally, chime in on this one, guys. Just because some people are complaining about the lack of torque, this car is not what you'd call slow, is it? I mean, it will still out-accelerate a new 270 bhp 2004 Acura TL (NOT a slow car itself) and do 0-60 in 5.8-5.9 seconds, making it a half-second slower than the 350Z. It's not a rocket ship, but I don't think you could call it slow, either...could you?

Thanks,

Robert

Spin9k

Drive by wire, Robert.

RX8_GT

Doctorr

Son is both amputee ?

John

RX8_GT

Nax system does not have voice recognition - uses a stick and button - easy to use. Voice is clear - volume control is adjustable - but does not mute stereo. John

Doctorr

Throttle - Totally drive-by-wire. Electric motor opens throttle, and closes it if the wheels spin.

Son-In-Trunk - No, not pretzelized, there is a lot of room in there.

Seat folding - I agree that the recline can hold a lot, but also try the 'slide forward', the passenger seat will slide forward all the way to the WINDSHIELD! That leaves a HUGE 'rear seat space'.

Dont have the Nav.

Audio Wheel controls all light up and dim.

Torque - Had a Acura V-6 prior to this, and it is a DOG compared to the '8. Don't forget that horsepower is torque x revs, it may be 159 ft lbs, but you got twice as many available revs as most cars.

Don't forget to drive one!
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doc

KKMmaniac

Yeah, the trunk is sorta small. (considering as in my case, it has no spare to take up more room) But if you improvise, maybe put some items on the rear seats, (provided you aren't carrying passengers back there) it is possible to improvise in most cases.

I've never flooded my car, (~ 7600 mi.) just pay attention to the spiel in the manual about very short trips. If the car is almost up to full operating temperature, I don't see any logic in revving the engine, or letting it idle for a minute before shut off. It's not like it has a turbo to cool down.

Trx8

LOL: I see, its a five seater, I haven't tried that yet.

In my trunk I carry: Mazda tire fix box, space consuming spare, my tool box, snow shovel. I recently took two people to the airport and the carry-ons dropped in the trunk, but there wasn't much room left. I still had one empty back seat.

The stock tires are not intended for use in the snow. There are numerous threads and posts on this topic. The "problem in the snow" is a "problem with the tires", not the car, the car is fine with snow tires.

You can decide not to drive the car from home if there is snow, but what if the snow starts while you are at work or some other location and need to drive home? There is a thread on that situation and the owner tried to drive with stock tires and had to leave the car in a parking lot and find another way home. Possibly you have enough alternate transportation options that you could avoid this situation.

I bought snow tires and they work very well. After reading posts about trying to drive with stock tires in the snow, I decided it was ~dangerous. I am a daily Michigan driver and for me snows were mandatory.

On mileage I probably average over 18 MPG. With dreadful city (cold weather and many short trips) I got 15.7 and I wasn't driving aggressively. As you will read, others have gotten worse MPG than that. I have also gotten 21.7 MPG, and others have gotten better.

I have read everything I can find about flooding (there are many threads here). As you know, start it, move it, turn it off before its warm, and it might flood. Some people have done that and it starts fine, I haven't tried that experiment. I think its something that any driver needs to know about, and it maybe an issue if you would use valet parking, or other services where unenlightened people could drive it.

When I picked up my car, it was well below freezing, the dealer and I went out to the car, started it up, talked through the car issues, when we were done, the car was warm, but to be safe, we revved it to 3000 RPM, then turned it off. Later I came out, to drive it home in a snow storm, it started fine. Other than avoiding turning it off if when the engine isn't fully warm, I don't rev the engine or do anything special to avoid flooding.

rudy8

robert
gas mileage sucks.
but i have to tell you...i have never been so enamoured with any car in my 27 years of driving.
it does everything so well...handles, interior is great, sounds will make you smile, and it s beautiful outside. space is way more than you think in the back, and the trunk is big but opening is tight. (get a full or partial amputation first).
i am going to add a canzoomer chip and new exhaust and i know it will be even better...but right off the floor, the car is near perfect if you dont do a thing.
also, i think red and black is available with titanium.
also, if you buy, do omicrons clutch pedal extension...it will change your experience.
drive one!!!
rudy

6speed8

Robert,

The rear seats do not fold down, it was neccessary to provide structural integrity due to the wide opening between the doors.
trunk space is very good (all things considered) for most daily errands and weekly groceries.

Gas mileage is borderline acceptable for a car in this class. I get just about 19 mpg (90% city driving), but lots of stop and go. The Renesis gulps gas when it idles.


Winter driving and flooding not an issue here in Florida

Oil usage is (for my car) is 1 qt per 2000 miles, which in
most cars would bve a real nuisance, but on this car I actually look forward to open the hood. I will tell you this however: The location of the dipstick is very poor.

The Nav system voice is pleasant, does not mute the stereo, but comes right through whatever is playing on the stereo.

Sue Esponte

Although I agree with you about driving in severe conditions (regardless of car), if you're getting your 8 with equipped with performance tires (not all-seasons) then you should still get a winter tire for your car. High performance tires are not made to handle cold weather driving, regardless of precipitation. When the temps drop to the 30-40 degree range, the rubber compound in these types of tires becomes rigid and noncompliant.

I kept my performance tires on my TT on a little longer than I should have this year. On one of the first frigid days, I went around a corner a little harder than I should have...and boy was I surprised. I was able to manage the curve but the tires were like bricks....winter tires are for more than just snow.

Unfortunately, too many people think that all tires are good in every temperature, that AWD/4WD means you don't need snow tires, and that AWD/4WD gives you God-like driving ability. Too many people are misinformed and get into accidents.

-Eric

zoom44

well here is what i was able to fit in my rx-8.


in the trunk-
1 2 person tent
1 bag of tent poles and pegs
2 sleeping bags
2 sleeping pads
2 carry on size suit cases
1 picnic basket full of various pots pans and untensils etc
1 small backpack
2 gallons of water
a couple or 4 extra pairs of shoes
plus 2 quarts of oil and the tire inflation kit which are always there in the trunk.

1 cooler on a back seat, safely buckled in. and on the return trip a nice case of napa valley wine buckled in the other seat. plus me and my wife plus a couple of jackets, hat etc. not bad for a sports car on a week long,2000 mile journey through northern cali

TiRX8

Buy a TL to eliminate your worries.

Sue Esponte

Yuck....but good recommendation, I guess.

Bang for the buck argument aside, I just don't see the allure of an Acura.

RSX = Expensive Civic
TSX = Expensive (Euro)Accord styled like an IS300
TL = Expensive Accord styled like a new Pontiac Grand Prix
RL = "Move on, nothing to see here folks"

-Eric

TiRX8

I'm just going by his options. I'm not a huge fan either but owners seem happy with the TL. I see the "domesticness" in the TL as well!! :D

MMGDC

1. Yep, the back seats don't fold down.

2. The trunk is surprisingly large (assuming you don't get the spare tire), but the opening is a little narrow. Don't expect to fit any really bulky items in there. Still, it's more than sufficient for picking up groceries, running errands, or packing up enough luggage for a weekend getaway.

3. Gas mileage is disappointing. Best case you'll get around 21-22 MPG. Worst case, 12-13. I get 19-20 MPG pretty consistantly. Short trips and extended idling will both absolutely kill your mileage.

4. Snow/Winter tires are a must if you ever plan on driving the car in snow/ice/freezing rain/extremely cold conditions. The OEM tires offer virtually no traction in snow/ice, and harden up to a rock-like consistancy in extreme cold. With good snow tires, the Rx-8 is a solid winter driver.

5. Yes, the Rx-8, as part of its design, consumes oil. About 1 quart every 2000 miles or so in my experience. Oil costs $1.89/quart by me. It's a non-issue to pour in a quart every 2000 miles between oil changes.

6. Flooding has been talked to death, but it's basically a driver error issue more than a problem with the car. It hasn't affected my use of the car or driving experience one bit. I just don't start the car and shut it down right away when it's cold. The car doesn't need an extended warm-up either... I often start it up, drive 1.5 miles to the gas station, and shut it down for a fill up. Never had a problem.

7. Regarding mechanics, that could be an issue if you don't like having your car serviced at the dealer. The Rx-8 is the only current production rotary car on earth right now, so naturally it'll be more difficult to find mechanics who are qualified to work on the engine. Goes with the territory.

Sue Esponte

I wasn't criticizing the TL suggestion...unfortunately, I would have to agree with you...I was just disparaging the Acura nameplate in general. lol :D

Quote:

Originally posted by TiRX8
I see the "domesticness" in the TL as well!!

Bleh :p

-Eric

Robert

Re the Acura and Pontiac:

Actually, I think Pontiac copied the new TL. And you can't compare the two, quality-wise. The Acura is vastly superior in every way. The Pontiac is a POS! And by the way, the TL is a VERY nice car with stellar build quality and some extremely sophisticated features. So is the TSX for that matter. Solid, fantastic fit and finish - styling is a little bland compared to some cars, but these aforementioned models actually look pretty good and do everything very competently. Plus, amazing reliability.

Robert