The engineers at Mazda are bright people, so....
 

...why can't they come up with a fix for the Achilles Heel of the RX-8, ala the farking flooding problem?

How difficult can it be to devise a resolution for this highly annoying issue that should not plague a modern automobile?

Mazda; can you hear us? Can you hear our collective plea?

They did, dont turn it off cold. :)

this is a problem that can affect every modern automobile, piston and rotary. the difference is, in a piston engine, the gas can evenually leak out of the cylinders (right into the oil) and eventually crank again. with the rotary, there is no way for it to leak out without some sort of intervention.

that said, if you'd follow the cold shut down procedure, then you wouldn't have a problem. and as smart as they are, the engineers can't do anything about the true achilles heel...the owners ;) :p: :D:

Drain valve..... hahahahahahahaha :rock:

Screw that, they should come out with a better fuel map. Every flash they come out with still doesn't put it where it should be.

I don't have flooding problems? Happened to me ONCE a couple of weeks after I bought the car. It's fired up just fine, cold or hot, every time since then.

You know you've come across a great car when something as simple to "fix" as this is the most discussed problem. :)

they should find a supplier for catalytic converters that can handle the higher heat that the rotary engine puts out, so mazda doesn't have to 'detune' their fuel map so the cat can last 100k miles, or whatever the feds mandate :p:

From early in the pre days - it was known to never turn of the car when cold. A capture from the early instructional manual for the techs:

https://www.rx8club.com/attachment.p...id=65282&stc=1

Have driven my 8 for 2 years and 8 days now and after 30,500 miles, it's never flooded once, or even come close. For me, it's not an issue....

Practically the same for me.
20 months and 31K miles.
I don't generally shut it off cold, although I'm sure I have once or twice, I don't go through any extensive warmup period or anything like that. Usually, I start it, take off and try not to wind it up too much until it's reached regular operating temps.

The fix is easy- follow directions and it WON'T flood... it's really quite easy. It's never a good idea to shut off any engine without letting it warm up... it just happens to cause more immediate problems with rotaries. Despite this, knowing people wouldn't follow directions, Mazda still released an ECU flash to help prevent flooding, a much stronger battery for cold climates, and a faster starter motor.

..ditto... never had an issue with flooding....

Thank you, that's the first time I've seen someone explain the "why" of the flooding thing. Care to take it one step further? What is it about being cold that makes flooding a problem? Why is it perfectly ok when warm?

Not to knock anyone of the soapbox, but the Mazda Engineers have done an excellent job of designing the RX-8. It simply does everything very well, not excluding the incredibly low cost at the level of engineering expertise that went into the 8.

Sure the flooding can be a pain as is the mileage and adding oil, BUT nothing is anything like it. Mazda Engineers have refined the Renesis and chassis balance and feel beyond the expertise of almost all other auto manufacturer all by themselves. The transmission is even world class, although a non Mazda assembly. The gauges are perfect! Last, the interior is so progressively styled AND ergonomically exceptional, a real reference for every other auto maker for design.

The piston engine has some much more R&D money and support for it, of course its design is more foolproof. However, it will never ever be as inherently silky smooth and as light as a Renesis -- with a comparible piston engine with the same displacement and cost. All Mazda has to do is scale up the engine from 2.6L (arguably not really 1.3L) to 3.0-3.5L and then add direct injection and all bets are off. Imagine how sick that will be!

I've been driving my winter beater Saturn (the bare minimum to be defined as a "car") and my grilfriend FX35 (awesome), but the last time I drove my RX8 a few days ago, all I could think was WOW.

Not trying to be a dick but...in the mean time you could be half as bright and take the steps to PREVENT flooding.

I'm not trying to be a dick either, and my car never flooded (yes, that is correct - no flooding in 1,560 miles since purchased new), but...

...reading about the frequency of flooding issues posted here by long term members, coupled with the weak starter experience I've had in sub 30 degree weather, is not exactly confidence-inspiring on a forward going basis.

Aside from all of that, I do think it can be objectively stated that a modern automobile should be able to be started and stopped, whether the engine runs for 5 seconds, or 5 hours, and restarted, without the owner having to worry about whether they'll have to call a flat bed truck to tow it to the dealer for replacement of spark plugs and having other deflooding procedures performed.

Some people believe we have sent men to the moon and machines to Mars, so an engineering resolution of this issue shouldn't be that tall an order.

But that's just my opinion.

Spoken like a true non-engineer.

I dunno. Mine never flooded (well , I had one close call). 13,000+ miles. I also learned stick on this car meaning I stalled cold MILLIONS of times. Not a problem for me, but after the first month and hearing how serious the flood effect is, I avoid shutting it off cold.

You're right; I'm not an engineer.

Just an average consumer, who needs reliable transportation, and feels slightly burdened by having to explain to everyone from the people at the window tint place, to my wife, that you can't simply start the car, and turn it off before going waiting for the engine to warm, driving it around for a while, or performing a preventative-deflooding procedure.

I love the car, though.

It seems like it's a faux pas to make the slightest objective criticism of this car, which I now own, for some members on this forum.

But who's going to start a thread saying that they've never flooded?

That's not really a fair analogy, though.

If I had 150,000 miles on my Renesis, and the only thing I had to do was change the oil and other fluids in accordance with the manual, I'd start a thread, because that would be notable.

Again, I'm not trying to be an ass. I love this car. I'll love it even more when my winter tires and rims get mounted (in the Michigan farking winter).

I've just seen an increased posting frequency of flooding problems now that it's colder in most parts of the U.S. and Canada (and where our European friends live, too).

I do plan on getting the upgrade to the stronger battery and starter, and hopefully that will decrease the chances of the flooding issues which I have yet to experience, and that I hopefully never will.

You are right ofcourse, it can be a problem when other people are going to be using it. I was under the impression you are another person bitching about how your car keeps flooding, etc. Clearly not the case.

I think you have overlooked the fact that some of us have heard the same complaint for three winter seasons now, and while the frequency has decreased tremendously, it just seems silly to whine about something Mazda has obviously been working through for many, many years. After all the complaints about the 3rd gen RX7, especially here in the states, I'm just happy as hell there's a rotary on the market again at all, and can happily live with it's few little quirks.

No, and I wasn't probably as clear as I should have been earlier.

Never flooded here... proud owner since August 2003, 32k miles.

I understand that some of the elders here have heard this many times, and that it can be annoying.

I'm new to the club, and while I did due diligence and research before buying my 8, I am only now really getting intimately familiar with all the aspects of my car, highs and lows.

Fair enough- there are literally hundreds of threads discussing "flooding" on this board... maybe a thousand. My advice is not to worry about something that probably won't affect you (it's entirely eliminated if you let it warm up everytime, and greatly mitigated by the ECU flash released last year), and enjoy your new 8 for its other 99% great aspects.

How is it that premium fuel is now "required"?

My ex bf said that they serviced it and I wouldn't have to worry about flooding any more. I've never flooded it and never shut it down cold, but can mine still flood?

He is history and I'm not sure what maintenance has been done and what hasn't.

The problem is that there are simply not enough rotary engines on the road/in production to warrant a supplier developing a catalyst specifically for the rotary engine.

I have shut mine off cold and it has started up , never flooded it once . I try NOT to do it, but there has been a few times I HAD to and it started... like when I got my windows tinted last week , I'm sure it wasn't warm when they pulled it in . And it was 10 degrees outside, they had the car for 4 hours....Not a issue unless you make it a issue.

It can still flood, the probability of it happening has lessened, but just follow the shutdown procedures and you'll be fine.

I think it's funny, you mention something you consider a drawback to the 8 and it's like you insulted everyone's mother :) But the reason for that is they love the car so much they'll defend it no matter the drawsback that were being discussed and make it boil down to "dude, it's a sports car, you shouldn't buy it if you were worried about the gas mileage. " Or the car is about the all around driving experience not just hp numbers when others say that feel disappointed in that category. They love it so much they look past the drawbacks but call you out when you don't do the same. I'll probably be one of them eventually (but won't be as voval as some about it) since the more I get to driver ours, the more I love the more refined areas this car provides and damn it handles nicely.

Tim

flooding is not an issue for me. Rex starts right on time everytime cold or warm!!

4 hours on tint? must be a busy location. I was in and out in 20 minutes. 20% thing all round for $89 :yesnod:

Sounds like a real quality job! :rolleyes:

I am not part of the "collective plea" as I know how to read and follow directions. The Renesis is getting a bad, undeserved rap on this forum. Flooding just doesn't happen that much.

please sell the car. no offense but this is not a car for someone who is going to rely on others to remember about maintenance. when did you last check the oil?

I've never flooded mine in nearly a year and a half, 12k miles. Seeing where the preliminary flyer said that premium is required and the manual states that premium is recommended makes me wonder if running lower octane fuel raises the possibility of flooding. I've only ran 91 octane in mine. I'm not very knowledgable in that area, so I could be way off base.

Premium is not required, just recommended... and it has nothing to do with the flooding issue. The recommendation is based on potentially reduced performance with low octane fuel.

i have my car for over a year now and i have never flooded my engine.

Well, it certainly would be nice to have the problem completely fixed. I've never had a flood, and I follow the procedures and don't expect to ever have a flood--myself. But I would have to say that the worst thing about this car is when you are forced to give it over to some valet guy or something, and you really don't trust that THEY will do all the right things and not flood it.

forget flooding, when they trying to put your car in reverse and they dont know that you got press the stick down. i cough a guy doin that i told him he got mad, so i told the manager if i can park my car they said no so i left.

when the car is "cold" (not up to operating temperature) it operates a higher rpm. ever notice that when you first crank the car it revs to between 2&3k rpm and then gradually settles back down to ~800rpm?

its during this initial phase, when extra gas is being pumped in to sustain the higher rpm that the flooding typically occurs. the reason that the manual states to hold the rpms at 3k for 10 seconds is because the longer the engine runs, the warmer it gets (because high rpm produce higher combustion/exhaust temperatures), and the lower the "idle" rpm becomes. so, after 10 seconds of holding the rpms at 3k, the idle rpm has dropped to far enough below this speed so that when you release the throttle, the ecu switches into DFCO (deceleration fuel cut off) and actually stops injecting fuel into the combustion chamber. when you shut the engine off while the engine is spinning down, it cuts the fuel delivery and helps to expell any excess gas that is left in the combustion chamber.

at least, that's how that i understand it. if i'm wrong, someone more knowledgable than me will correct me :)

You guys have got to stop letting valets touch your car... they're all pure evil!

I didn't get raped and had 4 guys working on it at the same time plus lifetime guarantee. This is the result

http://www.geocities.com/emapeter/tintrx8.jpg

Would you let these guys park your 8?!?:shocking:

those r the stupid valets from Bueller's Day Off...they r wicked!! :spank:

Well, they wouldn't be driving the car any worse then I do. :)

what flooding problem?

Never experienced it :angel: