Dynamic Stability Control (DSC) Modes?
 

Okay, DSC has three modes, as far as I can tell:
1) On
2) Off
3) Really Off (hold the button in 5 seconds and the skidding car dash light goes on)

So what is the difference between "Off" and "Really Off"? Other than the fact that "Off" can be switched back to "On".

Also, has anyone figured out how to make DSC "Off" the default setting on start up?

DSC Off leaves TCS on. That's the push and release. It'll still attempt to correct an 'out of control' condition, it just has a higher threshold before kicking in. Fully off, means you have no babysitter at all, and it'll behave like a regular old rwd car. There's speculation that TCS off also gives a little more grunt, and I feel like it does, but who knows.

There was a DIY a while back from someone who modified the switch to turn DSC and TCS off upon startup. But I personally like having the choice. The nannies will save your butt on occasion, particularly when it's wet out, and you only have to hold the button down for 7 seconds. My car takes longer than that to drop to normal idle rpm on startup, plenty of time to push the button.

Do yourself a big favor, leave it alone. Too many people wrecking out their 8's because they think they know better.

:D

Val, are you saying that people with base models are sliding all over the place and wrecking in great numbers? I've been under the impression that this car is incredibly easy to drive DSC or no for a skilled driver.

only the silver ones are crashing ;)

I'll have to check my manual again, but I read the section about the DSC/TCS button very carefully when I got my car. (late 2004 - VIN about 35000) It said that the button (pushed briefly) will disable the DSC/TCS system, and cautioned against holding the button down. It said something like "holding the button down for several seconds will cause the circuitry to sense a malfunction and shut the system down permanently. The DSC/TCS system will only re-engage if the ignition is turned off, and the car restarted." It made no mention of any possibility of separating the DCS circuitry from the TCS circuitry. In fact, a note about the "really off" situation stated that "in these circumstances, the brake LSD will still function." If this is true, then the only way to completely disable the LSD (and make it behave like a regular old rwd car) would likely be related to disabling the ABS, or part of it.

I have unmistakably set off the abs individual braking feature with DSC off before, without touching the brakes. And cars without traction control have limited slip diferentials, 2 different things.

Why doesn't someone "test" both modes and see what the real deal is?

1.) Tap the DSC Off switch.
1a.) Try doing a burnout (wet parking lot would be ideal).
1b.) Try making the back end come around (same as above).

2.) Hold it for the full 7-8 seconds to disactivate it entirely, and perform the above tests again.

I'd love to know that simply tapping the off switch gives the same effect, so that I don't have to shut off the car should I suddenly decide I need the systems back online.

When I had my 8, I generally found no difference between a "partial off" and a "full off"

In the snow, all I had to do was press it once for a "partial off" and the ass was hanging out like a cheap hooker. On another occasion I did the "full off" and found no difference. Both times were playing in the snow revving to redline in 1st or second with little to NO traction and nothing inhibited my fun.

1) DSC Off (As above)
1a) TSC interrupts...but it is intermittent. In the snow, this would result in wheelspin most of the time.
1b) TSC interrupts, but you can slide the tail out... (lift off oversteer works, not power on oversteer.)

2) DSC Off (Totally, Long Press)
2a) Obvious....burnout.
2b) Oversteer, Power on oversteer, Lift off oversteer

Remember that with either option, ABS and EBD are in effect. EBD will only assist while braking, and not a function of DSC.

Base 8z rule all!!!!!!muahahahhahah :p

Awesome, someone has tried it. :) Thanks for the info!

Then what is a "brake LSD" as described by the manual? I assumed this was an electronic system that applies the rear brakes selectively to limit rear wheel slip - thus making it a limited slip differential. Is this really a mechanical LSD? If so, then why would it be referred to as a "brake" LSD?

Can't say about base models sliding all over the place. Evidence mounts that turning off DSC is not a smart move. I know of SEVERAL owners that wrecked after they made the mistake of turning DSC off. Also some near disasters, too. This car (and my old RX-7) is light in the back and can spin freely. You can be the best driver in the world hit oil, grease, tranny fluid, water, coolant, chicken fat, Crisco, what have you and its round she goes.

No one I have talked to that has had the "nanny" save their ass said, "Boy, I wish I had turned DSC off!" Bottom line, do whatever you want, I'm just saying err on the side of caution.

Off my soap box.

Hmm...I would have to read the manual and see what is says...so I could not say based on the above quote.

My understanding is that the 8 is equipped with a Tochigi Torque Sensing Limited Slip Diff, which I believe to be mechanical; In the fact that it will apply torque to the wheel with the most traction? Correct if wrong.

In my thinking....out of context, a "Brake LSD" would seem to be a part of EBD (Electronic Brakeforce Distribution), in which it would apply the brakes to limit wheel spin of the wheel losing traction. Of course, this would make it a part of DCS and TCS, (If invoked) right?

So, before this gets too confusing...I would say that the Tochigi TS LSD will shift power to the wheel with the most traction, or balance the power between the two in the event that traction is equal...The "Brake LSD" would assist to balance the power by applying the brake to the wheel slipping to help it regain traction.

All speculation at this point, I'll read the manual and see what it says.

Limited slip is usually just a spring that prevents the spider gears from being pinned into one axle from inertia/centrifugal force. The spring keeps them touching both gears and both tires spin. If one tire spins more in puts more force on the spiring and more power is pushed to the non slipping tire.

Hmmm.. I hear alot about people worrying about turning off DSC and stuff, but what about base models?

In my opinion, I think people with DSC learn to drive and get used to the feeling of the car with DSC off, so when DSC is turned off it maybe feels different? I can't honestly say for sure since I've never driven with DSC on so who knows.

I'm getting base... think I should be worried about sliding all over the place? ^^

I think my car handles fine with DSC off it does what I expect it to do... swing the ass end around proportional to the amount of gas I'm giving it. DSC on it just chirps the tires blinks at me and stays planted. If you asumed this is all the car would do then that's your mistake. I like driving with mine off sometimes as it give me more control. I think it does have it's place though as there are plenty of times Where if you slam the gas the car would want to get sideways in a hurry... that might not have been a problem 20 years ago but now there's too many other people around.

I left my DSC on all day at Laguna Seca, and it didn't seem to slow me down at all as far as I could tell. I was driving at about 7/10s and it wouldn't even light up except on turn 11, which is very slow and tight.

I could feel the ABS/EBD kick in at the crest of the corkscrew and it was a trip; I swear I could tell it was braking one of the front wheels harder than the other as I braked hard, coming out of 7, for the turn into 8A. Same thing going into 2 sometimes.

(I love this frickin car; it was so awesome on the track.)

I’m somewhat envious of those who have not driven the 8 with DSC. You guys should understand the limits more than I do. For me it is a crutch that I refuse to do without. I’m scared to death to turn it off. I do feel safe with it on and I will not turn it off. I want to learn my car's limits but I will not do it until I can go to a school of some sort. I have a little Dennis the Menace tendency to want to push the button just because it is there.

One question, do you think you would have better control of the car at maximum speed in turns with it on or off (not sarcasm, I really do want to know what you think). Let me qualify that by saying the same experienced driver.

Many of my friends racing here in Georgia leave the DSC on but we have one brave sole that turned it off the other day and wound up doing a couple 360’s in turn 5 at Road Atlanta. He is a very good driver but he wanted to get just a little more out of the car so in pushing it to the limit he slightly exceeded. That little bit of extra slide did him in. (no damage except to his ego). He would not have spun if the DSC had been on.

Hey Hard 8, I am suprised you would be driving an 8. I wouldn't think you could get all those weapons in your trunk, plus all that blood from the chainsaw on your upholstery!! Shameful.

Ok, sorry to ressurrect an old thread, but I have a stupid question and I didn't want to create an entirely new thread for it.

I recently bought a used 2004 rx8 from a dealership. They had basically no paperwork on it. The model has the fog lights, xeon lights, 18" wheels and larger brakes. (ala the sports package)

However, for the life of me I can't find anything relating to DSC. There's no button to the left on the steering wheel, and no light in the dash that I can see. However, I find it odd that someone would have half the sports package and not the entire thing.

I assumed I didn't have DSC, but wanted to test it out. So it was raining hard and I was driving (in a deserted area) hard and couldn't get the back end to slip for beans. (although if i revved to 4k and dropped the cluth it would spin)

Is it correct to assume that if I don't have the DSC button there's no DSC on this model? If so, this car handles amazingly well.

6 speed has 18" wheels and bigger brakes no matter what package.. base - gt

The fog lights, xenon lamps and DSC are part of sport pkg and up.

I can't imagine someone installing xenon lamps, (fogs maybe) on a base.

Look at your instrument panel when you first turn on the ignition.

You should see just below the 7 and 8 on the tachometer, the little

car with slippery skid marks under its tires. It should light up and then turn off.

If you see this you should have DSC

The DSC switch is right beside the interior light dimmer switch.

^^ what he said. just attaching a pic showing exactly where the button is.

Here is a close-up.

In this pic, it shows a kill switch for the passenger airbag.

Is this a non North American option?

Sounds like you have a base MT w Xenon, fogs. The regular lights look amazingly similar to the Xenon, are you shure, if so you got yourself a verry expensive set of lamps there :-).
I have seen people put xenons on their base models.

And no, if you can get it to spin it doesn't have DSC period. Taking it to 4k and dumping the clutch on a model with DSC activated wold have an initial tire chrip and then the nanny would modulate throtle for you and the tire spin would stop. also it would activate your front brakes to stop you from spinning. I.E. It is almost imposible to spin an RX-8 with DSC on.

i don't know if its an option or standard, but its only available outside the north american market.

*1 PUSH* - 'DSC OFF' comes on the dash under the fuel gauge

At this point there is no more 'traction-control' the rear tires are free to spin (at a launch, ect) you can push the button again at any time to re-activate the 'traction-control' I belive the only reason for this feature to be built in is possibly due to the fact that in cold weather (snow and ice on the groud) the car may become 'stuck' meaning the car wont let the rear wheels spin in the traction control...so you wont go anywhere, they built in a feature so you could turn it off, slip the back wheels a bit and get moving, then turn it back on so you dont crash into a mailbox or something. The 'stability control' remains on so you cant get the car into a spin.

Basicaly You can spin the tires but you can spin out.

*PUSH AND HOLD 7+ SECS* - 'DSC OFF' comes on the dash under the fuel gauge AND a little 'drift icon' come on in the top center of the tach

At this point you have no 'traction control' (see above) and you also dont have any stability control. You are now free to wiggle your sexy little ass all the way down park ave. if you chose. I think this cant be turned back on (without restarting the car) so that you couldnt accidently bump it (its right by your left knee) and turn it on DURING a slide...the sudden activation of the system while the car is in a 'loss of traction situation' could cuase the car to go completly out of control...or become unpredictable, causeing a crash.

Basicaly the power is yours, its just you and the LSD.

I hope this makes sense and people can now better understand the cars saftey net!

Happy Motoring

first time I see It,
Mabe 2005 option but not MNAO

I dont understand what your talking about....are you saying the person that has the car with all the sports package but no DSC might be an option for 05 but not from Mazda North America?

Sorry

The confusion, starts from my question about an airbag kill switch. (beside the dsc switch)

I wanted to know if it (the kill switch) was outside of NA.

We think it is a base model with xenon fogs and regular lowbeams.

But we haven't confirmed it yet.

From what I've heard, if you compare identical cars except one group has DSC and one doesn't the single car accident rate is twice as high for the non-DSC cars.

I'll check when I drive home from work, and upload photos if necessary. So the regular headlights have the sharp cutoff point at the top of the beam as well as the rotary accents? Not that I care too much, I've got an 8. :D

i know my car will go into donut mode just with the tap.. not even with the full off mode.

Well, no DSC button and no air bag control either. Guess I'll see how it does this winter, but the grip while driving on that much water was amazing. Friend of mine had an old Firebird and that thing was a deathtrap. Guess they've made a few improvements over the years though.

you are correct sir :)

there is a turn into my neighborhood that activates my dsc just about everytime i turn in, no matter what speed i'm going...its downhill with a slight bump. nothing that causes any traction issues at normal speeds but sets the dsc off.

if i turn the dsc off by just pressing the button (not holding it down) the turn doesn't activate the dsc. i can also get power on oversteer as well.

also, according to the manual (which is always right, right? ;)) pressing the dsc button switches off both tcs and dsc and that holding the button triggers the error condition (dsc off light and traction control squiggly light) because it thinks there is a problem with the swtich.

That's what I read and interperated in my owners manual too.

I understand that while in the soft-off mode, DSC will come back on only if the ABS gets activated.

what makes you think that?

in "soft-off" you can reenable the dsc at anytime by pressing the button again or by turning the car off.

if the button is held down and the dsc is turned off that way, the system thinks there is a problem with the switch and disables the switch until the car is restarted and it turns on both the dsc off lamp and the squiggly line lamp.

i'll be the first to make the assertion that both modes do exactly the same thing in regards to the dsc/tcs systems, the only difference being that when the button is held down, the switch is deactivated, which keeps the dsc system from being turned back on at the switch until the car is restarted.

Right. No argument there. I assumed everyone knew that already, and was just talking about when the system would reactivate by itself.

I have to quibble there. At least, per many other threads on this issue, DSC will ALSO come back on when ABS is activated, in soft-off, but not in hard-off.

There was even a thread that linked to a Mazda (?) video, filmed on a rainy track in Japan, where they made a hard, sideways stop in three different modes: DSC on, DSC soft-off and DSC hard-off. The differences between all three modes were dramatic, and in the order stated the stopping distances and amount of spin increased significantly from mode to mode.

Under your theory, soft-off and hard-off would have exhibited the same distances and degree of spin, because in each mode DSC would remain off unless the driver reactivated it manually.

OK, now I'm going to do a search. Stand by. I'll cheerfully eat crow if I'm wrong.

OK, here's yet a third theory: A good discussion here: https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-tech-garage-22/turning-off-dsc-tcs-11106/

Not exactly what I was saying, but close enough for me.

i only questioned it because you're mentioning it was the first i've heard of it.

also, a quote from your linked thread...

seems to refute the claim of it automagically reactivating when ABS comes into play.

i guess the higher threshold theory with "soft-off" is possible/plausible, but i still think, based off my experiences with the car, "soft-off" and "fault-off" are the same, but one mode allows for the dsc to be re-enabled without turning the car off.

not saying i am right and you are wrong, just giving my theory based off what i've experienced :)

Roger that. I haven't tested it myself. You should do a search for that video, though. The car really seemed to behave quite differently in each mode. But it was in Japanese, so it was a bit hard for me to follow.

will do. i'll look around and see if i can find it.

Lemme know if you do. I just struck out on it myself. It was really a cool video. I tried DSC rain video as search terms. You might try RX-8 rain video or some such.

yeah, i found it.

but i have issues with it...the driver seems to drive each mode different. for instance, in run #1 he accelerates to 119km/h, then coasts to 110km/h and performs the manuver. in run number two, he accelerates to 119km/h, then coasts to 114 km/h then does the corner. in run #3 he accelerates to 119km/h but this time he brakes, then eases off the brakes some. and on run #4 he accelerates to 119km/h but this time when he brakes, he stands on it until it comes to a stop.

in his different runs, he plays around with weight transfer to help create the dramatic differences in each mode. it was pretty interesting to watch, but because of these differences i'm still a little skeptical.

https://www.rx8club.com/showthread.p...ight=dsc+video
post #7

I have the base model and every so often it get some tail slide but in general it doesnt move a inch. I think the problem with people that turn the dsc off is they are used to it on and drive as such

Cool that you found it. I don't know the answer for sure, and I didn't watch the video that carefully. Some day I guess I need to try out the soft-off in the parking lot, and see if I can get the car to activate DSC on its own.