driving stick properly
 

Well I'm doing ok so far even managed to rev match when downshifting. Still stall at red lights 1 out of 15 times but thats improving. Thing I'm concerned about is going slow, like creepy crawl slow like in bumper to bumper traffic or maneuvering into a parkings space. What I've been doing is just pressing the clutch in half way and tap the gas a bit so its just moving like 2mph or so guess the friction of the clutch is acting like a brake?? Am I doing that wrong I don't want to ruin my clutch. What do u guys to when u need to go super slow?

Accelerate very slowly, then put in the clutch and coast a bit and repeat the process or put the car in neutral while coasting.

you're on the right path. if you have to move at speeds slower than the car will idle in gear, about 6-7 mph or so i tihnk. then ya, it just takes some learning the clutch to contorl your speed. its best not to ride the clutch like that any more than necesary though. its something thats come with time and experience. before you know it it'll be second nature and you wont even think about it.

just remember than every different vehicle you drive has a different clutch, and driving a new vehicle will take some time to get used to, maybe one run through the gears, maybe 2 weeks. just depends on how much different the clutch is and how experienced you are.

Definitely try to minimize the amount of time that the clutch is partially engaged, because that's when the clutch will wear. In traffic, leave a little more space in front of you so you'll have to stop and go less often and will be able to cruise around 7 mph with the clutch fully engaged.

fyi, on the rx8, 7mph is 1000rpm in 2nd gear, which is pretty much exactly where the rx8 idles when it's moving

so, for most 'crawling' traffic, i use 2nd instead of downshifting into 1st

If you let the clutch out suuuuuuuper slow the car will roll forward without giving it any gas. Just learn where that catch-zone is on your clutch, then give it just a little bit of gas to get you rolling, and then put the clutch back in. Basically.... Rev (1.5-2k), ease out the clutch untill you start rolling, push the clutch back in, repeat. Dont worry about over revving a little bit, better to over rev than stall. After a short time this action will get faster and more presice untill your rolling through stop and go like a pro!

Good luck man, and keep at it. The 8 isnt the easiest car to learn stick on, so be pacient.

Agree as well. No need to have to replace that expensive clutch sooner than you have to.

To clarify what I think ZZ is saying here - you can leave the 8 in 2nd gear and not touch the gas pedal, and it will just coast at ~7mph. Combine this w/cquinn's advice of staying off the car in front a bit more, and you can dramatically reduce the use of the clutch.

Prlly best to practice a time or 3 in an empty lot first.

:beerchug:

^thanks for clarifying, that's what i meant lol

I generally do the quick blit of power, with possibly less-than-full-clutch, followed by clutch-down coasting.

This is why some people hate MT.

I used to do the same thing until I was more comfortable with the clutch in whatever car I was driving. It will wear the clutch a bit but also help you learn the catch point. All other advice here is great, you'll be a pro in no time!

other bad habits to avoid: resting your hand on the shifter when driving, sitting at a light with the clutch depressed instead of putting the car in nuetral. resting your foot on the clutch predal instead of the dead pedal.

push hips forward, then pull hips back and repeat... wait, wrong thread...

-Steakboy

No no, that'll still work.... if you're 3rd leg is available for that distance.

Hm, another question. I'm a new 8 driver, and still getting used to the clutch. I've only driven an older car with stick before, and never daily. So I've come across some more issues. I tried to parallel park on a hill yesterday. So the nose of the car was facing downward. I wasn't careful with the clutch, and my car like rolled way down, I was practically touching the car in front of me. If it weren't for the handbrake, I would not have been able to reverse back up. I was so frightened. What do you guys do in situations like this? Any tips for starting/stopping on slopes? I used to be able to hold my old car by halfclutching, but its so hard in the . The clutch pedal is so easy to depress, like there's no feeling to it. Tips?

Use the handbrake when starting on a slope. Wait for the clutch to engage then release the handbrake. This should prevent you from rolling back until you're quick enough with the clutch.

^ That, and lots of practice on flat ground to learn the catch point better. Then some practice on slopes w/o cars around, so you don't have to worry about bumping anyone.

Or, the dissenting opinion that there's absolutely nothing wrong with sitting at a light with the clutch depressed.

Two comments. First, as dmc27 said, with some practice you'll learn to automatically go to where the sweet spot on the clutch is. "halfclutching", as you call it, isn't really about "half"; whether the sweet spot on a clutch is half-way or three-quarters or one-quarters can vary from car to car. You need to learn where YOUR clutch starts to engage.

Second: for parallel parking nose-down on a hill, I would've done all the forward movement part just by clutch-down to use the hill to coast while using the brake to control speed. And again, when the hill is steep enough relative to your skills, there's no shame in using the hand brake. I've been driving stick for 20 years and I still occasionally pull out the handbrake trick on the rare really steep hill.

Slopes are kinda hard at first. I use the handbrake, and when the light turns green, i just give it gas and feather with the clutch until i feel the car wanting to move, then I release the handbrake slowly as I give it more gas. It's all in your foot, and patience.

-Cody

And in case you didn't do it already, I'll correct myself & ZoomZoomH. The 8 pulls @ 7 or 8 mph in 1st gear and @ 12 or 13 mph in 2nd gear.

I think it was already mentioned, but you should be able to just feather the clutch out (ie - slower release of the clutch) in 1st to get the car rolling without touching the gas at all.

My problem is I can't find the sweet spot of the GAS pedal! Accelerating out of 1st I put a some pressure on the gas and the RPMs jump to 3500rpms, and if I give just a little pressure, the car starts shaking and almost stalls. I can't seem to get the hang of 1st gear in this thing.

Sounds like you don't quite have the coordination of the gas and clutch pedals. You need to achieve a balance of the two for a smooth launch.
You need to practice.

The gear ratio in reverse is a the same as second, IIRC. Reversing, therefore, requires a bit more finesse on the pedals to do it smoothly reversing up an incline. No harm using the e-brake, although you probably won't kill anything if you're delicate with the throttle and riding the clutch.

I have to reverse into a garage spot that is up an incline, and it is fairly tight, so I often have to feather the clutch under a bit of throttle if I don't have it quite moving quick enough from the road into the garage.

Yup, what Darkbrew said. This one's entirely a matter of practice. Especially considering there's a couple ways to launch.

:wavey:

im still learning how to drive stick too, ive been driving for about a month. i used to ride the clutch alot when driving without even realizing. i used to rest my foot on the clutch pedal and keep it held right before the clutch disengaged but i was told not to do that. now i keep my foot on the dead pedal but now i have to practice being smooth when switching gears again. and when i launch i rev it to about 3k and feather it out. and as for hills(which i dont encounter much) i let the clutch out without giving it gas until it makes the car move at about 2 mph which in this case wont really make me move forward but keeps me from moving backwards. DarkBrews advice applys to me aswell. all we need to do is practice practice practice............and come to this forum for advice n help. lol.

the noob

When I first learned to drive stick, it took me about two weeks of doing it every day for it to start to feel comfortable. It took about a year for it to be *completely* comfortable. Give yourselves time.

im still learning stick shift my self. All it really is is practice, juss get comfortable in ur seat n learn ur sweet spot well.

After your comfortable with the basics of operating a manual gearbox, you should look into learning to heel-toe and double declutch. The combination of these two techniques involves matching revs while the car is in neutral so that the input and output shafts of the transmission are rotating at the same speed in addition to the motor. Heel toe is somewhat of a misnomer as the term was coined during the era of center accelerator pedals, most use the left and right halves of the ball of their right foot. Doing this will help preserve the internals of your gearbox and the clutch as well as allow you to select lower gears with greater ease.

a little bit of higher revs should do it i had the same problem with the hills at my dads house.

I'm in the same boat.
Learning how to drive stick in Berkeley is interesting.

It's usually:
1st
2nd
OH FONG IT PEDESTRIAN!

1st
2nd
PEDESTRIAN!

*repeat*

Well, I just want to say kudos to all of you who are stepping up to the plate and learning to drive stick. It always pains me when people drive automatics solely because they're too afraid to learn stick (I have no problems with people who drive automatics because they can do both but simply prefer automatic). People always talk here about the relative advantages of manual-vs-auto on the 8, but really it goes well beyond that: learning to drive stick is a gift you give yourself for the rest of your life. Congrats!

That sounds like fun.

I hope you find some fun roads to swing 'er around on.

There's a website that has a ton of useful information about manual shifting... http://standardshift.com/ I'm sure whatever these guys don't cover can be found there. Good luck.

I don't get you guys? How did you get your driving licence if you don't know how o drive a manual? Can you get your license on an auto car?

Yeah, when I got my license I learned on an auto, and took the test on an auto. There was never any mention of manual transmission. I would estimate 30-40% of people in the US know how to drive manual transmission cars.

Yup, you could go your whole life in the states w/o learning MT.

:SHOCKED: My Brain shook after reading this, I got a long way to go...

Actually I'm getting better at first gear, I've only had the car for a week. I am glad to say though, that every shift after that is buttery smooth, can't even tell i'm shifting.

Don't let your brain shake. Heel-toe shifting is not necessary, and your transmission is not going to break without it. It's an advanced technique that, if you're interested, you should certainly learn. But I've never learned to do it, after driving stick for 20 years. It's not on the exam, it's extra credit. :)

Theres no shame in using the handbrake to help you on hills!
That's why it typically is soo easily accesible on small manual tranny cars -- It is a bit awkward in the RX-8 I kinda wish they diddnt put the E-brake way over on the passenger side.

Mann -- I'll never forget this:
I was 17 years old ... alredy owned my 1st car ( a 1981 Volvo 240 )

4 speed stick w/ pushbutton over-drive -- Hellz yeah!!!

I took the little test w/ the state cop in the passanger seat.

I performed rather flawlessly for a kid of that age driving a beast of a Volvo

But the copper fails me... Tells me & my dad that " I diddnt shift smooth enough" WHAT?!! What !! My dad was kinda pissed - he said to the cop... well how many kids take their driving test in a manual ??? .... Cop just said nothing.

Honestly I think everyone should learn to at least match revs on downshifts even if they cannot perform this under braking by heel toeing. The ability to snag any gear quickly with no wear and tear, lurching and a fast effortless release of the clutch is very rewarding. I taught my girlfriend of many years how to heel toe and double clutch over the course of a week or so. She has trouble on some difficult pedal clusters, but on my rx8 and her civic si, she shifts like a pro.

There are some pretty good writeups online about how to do this, and keep in mind that most do not use there actual heel and toe, its just a term. It is also taught at skip barber racing and driving schools along with many of the other good performance driving and racing schools.

Also, when performed properly, a rev matched double declutched downshift puts basically zero wear on the synchros, or if your synchros are bad or non-existant (in the case of most racing cars and many vintage cars) you can get the gear easily and sans crunching or grinding.

here's a link heel toe/double de-clutch

Its not the best vid but decent. Also, ignore the comments at the bottom of the page about double clutching being obselete or more for upshifts. Double clutching on upshifts is pretty pointless. The idea is on a down shift, when you match revs in neutral, you are accelerating the input shaft to the appropriate speed for the lower ratio so that it snicks in easily without the synchros having to spool the input shaft up for you. Also the motor will be at the appropriate rpms so you can more or less let off the clutch instantly with no jerk or risk of wheel lockup.

I have a stick rx8 and love it, im trying to teach the wife how to use it and shes really good actually, its not an easy car to learn in after all.
But i have some bad habits i always leave the clutch pressed down when in traffic and at lights because ppl dont have the patience for you to put it into first and go, they want to go straight away.
When i took lessons the instructor taught me to take corners and turns in second but i always take them in third, what does everyone else do? im curious

thats a really helpful tip about being in second and just getting the bite point to drive through traffic, ill be using that, you can also just use th bite point for reverse too.

I'm not sure if it's like this is in Cyprus but I know in the UK, before I started living in the States, if you took your driving test in an automatic (which would be pretty rare as at least at that time A/T's accounted for about 2% of the car population) you were only allowed to drive an automatic thereafter. Here in the US if you pass your test in an A/T you're still allowed to drive a stick shift.

I remember when I got my first stick shift car here, the MX-5, I didn't even know how to drive a M/T. I had to have a friend drive the car home while another friend drove his car. I then proceeded to drive around the local deserted streets for about 4 hours that night just practising shifting. Of course, I still stalled the car three times to and from work the next day (well, it was a 60 mile round trip!) and probably a total of about 15 times that first week.

That was 6 years ago. Today I stalled my RX-8 for the first time, going in reverse. I think the car felt sorry for me...I almost felt it pause right before it stalled as if to ask "are you sure you want to do this?" :hahano: This car is a lot more forgiving than that Miata.

Where I live once your 18 there isn't even a road test, just a written test and a snap of the picture and you've got a liscense. Its frightening.

That is scary.

Do you guys have a permit system before that?

I'm sure it has value, my only point is that it isn't manditory. Let the beginners master the basics first without feeling overwhelmed. Again, 20 years without it and I'm doing just fine. Although on your recommendation, I personally am going to play with it some.
Big deal. Your synchros can take it, that's what they're there for. Don't be scaring newbies into thinking their transmissions are made of crystal.
Which is exactly my point. Older cars needed it, race cars need it, but for regular street driving today, it's an advanced technique. A useful advanced technique, a worthy advanced technique, but an advanced technique. You don't push people into playing barre chords when they're still working hard to put down an open D. You don't push people into worrying about recursion or linked lists when they're still trying to master a basic for loop. Let the folks who are still mastering getting started on a hill worry about double clutching and all later!

I'm sorry, I think you misinterperted my point. Its not required, but I really think its enjoyable. Its a great way to enhance your driving experience once your past the basics. I agree 100% with working on the getting around town before you worry about this stuff. I just thought it might be fun for these guys to see where you can go with it.

One thing that is worthwhile is having a basic understanding of how a manual gearbox works as it helps you understand why the car does what it does. It also helps to explain why certain things like hill holding, fast hard shifts and stuff like that are a big no no, even for beginners.

Didn't mean to shove anything down anyone's throats though. When the stick noobs are ready, this stuff is really fun and rewarding.

Good luck, have fun with your 6mts and congratulations on taking the plunge into learning to drive a manual!

If your under 18, there is a permit period and a road test. For some reason they assume that past the age of 18 you've magically achieved the ability to drive as long as you can pass the written test.

FYI RI is the state that statistically drive's drunk the most and has the most fatal accidents. Although alot of it is cultural and related to other sociological phenomena in such a bizzare place, I think much of the blame can be placed on inadequate drive education.

The other night on the way home from the market, I past the worst road accident I have ever seen. On the news the next day it was revealed that both the driver and passenger were killed, both were drunk, not wearing seatbelts. They were underage girls celebrating a 19th birthday.