evilbada1

ok, this is my first stick car, and so far, I've stalled it only 4 times since the day i bought it (I think is pretty good for a newbie).
I've been trying to learn how to downshift, but I've noticed when the RPM was low at the instant of gear engagement,
the car seemed to lean forward like i'm pressing on a brake, and jerked.
Can someone tell me how to downshift smoothly?

Terrapin

You're pretty much there already. The point of downshifting is to slow the car down without using your brake. Thus, it will cause your car to rev up a little and give you that feeling of pressing on the brake. Downshifting is also like an art and it takes awhile to truly get used to it. You shouldn't be getting the jerking feeling with downshifting to any gear but 1st, and if you do, either wait a little longer to downshift, or left off the clutch a little slower. Downshifting to 1st is the hardest to get used to, merely because it's the most sensitive. The same rules apply, however, just make sure you're not doing it at a high RPM and try to let off the clutch a little slower. I've had the RX8 for less than a week, and I'm still getting used to the clutch myself. Previously, however, I owned another stick for over 5 years. Each one is different and it takes practice to feel comfortable. Hope this helps and have fun.

-T

Mr M

I agree, let the clutch slip a little when letting it out on downshifts. If you 'dump' it when changing down in the wet you may lock up the rear wheels and that will send you spinnnnnniiinnngggggg!!

Have fun!

Wankeler

I've always downshifted for braking purposes in previous cars, but since I've gotten this 8, I find myself using the brake more to slow down than the gearing. It's taken some getting used to but I think I'm getting used to it.

Good job on driving your first manual... My first showroom "new" car was an 84 chevette w/4sp manual (hey it was all my own money and I paid in full). I stalled it every morning on the way to work and burnt out the clutch at 3000 miles. Good thing I worked for the Chevy dealership at the time... I got to replace my own clutch under warranty and got paid for it! The replacement clutch lasted until the car died... at 144,000 miles.

pret

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I've always downshifted for braking purposes in previous cars, but since I've gotten this 8, I find myself using the brake more to slow down than the gearing.
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Is that because ur going too fast? lol!

EightIsEnough

Yeah, for this car, I also slow down by using my breaks instead of downshifting. I would practice on another car first!

Logically speaking, it is cheaper to replace break pads than to replace a tranny!

leleutd

One thing you might want to start doing (I do it for fun / change of pace once in a while) is to double-clutch. Put your clutch in, take it out of gear, let clutch out (while in neutral), rev up the engine then proceed to a lower gear. This will speed up your engine to match the wheels' RPM's in the lower gear, and will actually allow you to accelerated better in a downshift. Have fun!

DViOuS

the only way to truely get rid of the entire "lean forward" feel and truely engine brake is to rev-match on downshift... either 1, blip the gas and downshift, or 2, step on the brakes and turn ur foot to blip the gas (heel-toe downshift)...

if you get the lean forward feel, ur using ur syncros and clutch to break, which technically isn't all the bad, but not great either... once ur fully released ur engine breaking, which is good, helps the brake pads a bit, at the same time ur in the right gear to accelerate if need be...

also, dont downshift if your in a turn going fast... the leaning forward is really leaning the car forward and pushin the weight to the front, loosing traction on the back wheels, where u may posibly spin the car... this is wot u see when u watch the drifting videos, the pop the clutch to get the weight to the front and the back loose... and same concept applies on normal driving if u downshift in a turn...

Jordan Dalton

What I did on MT that I've driven, I would push in the clutch with my toes on my right foot I would drag the brake just slightly...then with my right heal I would bump the gas to get the revs up (while at the same time) downshifting to another gear. From there I would slowly let out on the clutch, which made the engine travel less rpms to match up for the gear you selected.

The man thing to do is make sure your rpms are around 3,000 less than the gear you're going to downshift into.

HeelnToe

Sounds like you're learning quickly!

As suggested, first just learn to slip the clutch slowly when releasing it. That'll smooth out the transition.

It'll also wear out the clutch quicker, so as people suggested, *eventually* you'll probably want to learn the "heel and toe" downshifting technique. That'll both save the clutch and make your downshifts seamless. Tons of threads and websites describing it. It can be difficult to learn, but it's easy once you do.

My suggestions:

1) Get a feel for normal shifting. No rev matching. Just learn to slip the clutch to smooth things out. Then...

2) Try basic rev matching. Don't do the heel and toe thing yet, just blip the throttle as you release the clutch whenever you're just coasting (not using brakes) down, like when approaching a stop sign on an uphill, etc. Then...

3) Try heel and toe. The only difference from #2 is now your toes stay on the brake while you pivot your heel to the accelerator to blip it. Now you're blipping the throttle while simultaneously braking. Tricky at first... best learned when no one is ahead or behind you for miles, lol

P.S. You don't need to double-clutch unless you're worried about synchro wear.

ASAEED18

hey i wouldn't downshift into first...you do it above 25mph and you might be picking your tranny up behind you and towing your 8 home, there's some warning in the manual too. My advice is to learn the speed limits of every gear if you're a newbie so you know which gear not to shift into... that may just be me though. I drop as many as 3 gears if i need to (usually from 6th to 3rd on the freeway)

Ajax

you should not downshift into 1st above 20.

BasenjiGuy

Bottom line, as Road and Track has said for years, in fact more years than some of you have been on this planet: Don't use the transmission for routine braking - use the brakes.

On mountain descents, OK, gear down. Sure, it OK to use the trans to slow the car, but it's not designed for that purpose.

Additionally, if you double clutch and/or heel and toe, you won't be braking the car much with the trans so you have to use the brakes.

Overport

The best way to put it:D

Labop

Someone earlier mentioned the double clutch. My dad taught me that way back, but since then I've become a little lazy. I just blip the throttle with the clutch in before I let it out. Now I've tried both recently and notice no difference.

Is there an actual advantage to letting the clutch back out in neutral before hitting the throttle?

Smoker

Go to www.howstuffworks.com and read about the manual transmission and EVERYTHING and I mean EVERYTHING will become apparent to you.

HeelnToe

No.

Well... it's done to reduce wear on the synchros. If your synchros are missing, old and/or worn out - go for it if you want.

It also helps get it into reverse at times. Might even be helpful for first.

Otherwise, it's pointless on a modern car.

It does impress fans of the F&F though...

Labop

Smoker: I tired the link on howstuffworks.com before I asked, it directed me to a Triumph site (I used to have a TR7) but the link for heel-n-toe was broken, so not EVERYTHING became apparent Thanks for the tip though.

Thanks HeelnToe, I figured it was something like that.

TODreamer

I just can't do the "hell and Toe" the conventional way... literally toeing the brake and heeling the gas. My leg just doesn't turn/swivle like that.... I have to use the "wide foot" technique

ASAEED18

thanks ajax, 20 is probably right

Kwullen

You got it, Tod!!
The RX8 pedals are set up for the wide foot method. Never heard it called that before but it's the right description.
Brake with the ball of your right foot and when you apply the brakes the gas pedal is perfectly flat with the brake pedal. Use the right side of the sole of your right foot and rock your foot over to match the RPM to the lower gear. If I'm skipping gears, I double clutch to take it easier on the synchros. With six gears, there are plenty to skip if your coming up to a second or third gear corner. With modern brakes, especially the great 8 brakes, you're wasting your time and money braking with the engine. Use proper downshifts to be in the correct gear for the turn you are entering, BEFORE you enter it!
Also, there is no need to slip the clutch on downshifts once you learn to properly match the RPM. When you're doing it right, you won't feel the shift, just hear the RPM difference.
The RX8 is set up as a road race car, not a drag racer. Learn to be smooth with everything you do. The car is balanced perfectly for great cornering speeds, only YOU can mess it up!
I can turn nearly anyone ashen white riding in mine!!

ASAEED18

yeah, what he said. very sharp

PainterMan

I disagree.
Scenario: You are cruising at 60 in 6th on a freeway and are blocked by a big SUV or semi. You want to pass the vehicle so you want a quick spurt of acceleration. You decide to downshift to 3rd and overtake.

This is one instance you will need double de-clutching. Heel and toe is not suitable as you want to accelerate not brake. You don't to way long for downshift and simple rev matching won't be sufficient.

If you simply try to downshift, the gear will refuse to smoothly engage and forcing it in is not good (if you have tried it mistakenly you know what it feels like). Put gear to neutral, release clutch, blip the accelerator correctly and the gear should immediately slide in smoothly to 3rd now.

Double clutching (or double de-clutching) has utility for more than impressing F&F fans.

zoomed

There is alot of advise here. If you are new to a manual, I would suggest waiting till RPM's are fairly low to downshift when you have other people in the car, and then try to have fun and practice practice practice when you are by yourself. Heel and toe (rev matching) is great for the race track. But you can get where you need to be be on the street by just getting alot of time by yourself and just getting used to a clutch.

Kwullen

Painterman is correct. As I stated, ANY time I am skipping gears, say from 6th to 3rd, as his example, I double clutch. The brakes are so good on this car that I never go down the gears in order. Same with modern race cars. If you are braking and shifting down, in order, you'll find yourself at a dead stop before you make it down to second gear!
I brake the car with the brakes and make one gear shift down to the gear I want for the approaching corner. Please wait for that gear change until you are near the proper speed for that gear. Your engine, tranny and clutch will be most thankful. (needless to say any passengers, also!)