Racer X-8

Curious, care to expound a bit on that?

And about the 240Z, that's what I was thinking too. As they say, there are exceptions to every rule. The RX-7 is still too new to demand top $ as a collectors car if still in top condition. As far as Japanese cars go, they were generally scrap cars until the late 70's. Maybe that's why they're getting the above bad rap from Car & Driver. "Jap Scrap" was what you used to call them.

Nubo

It's possible that any gasoline-burning car is going to be a curiosity 40 years from now.

Racer X-8

Maybe so. Of course, that was the #1 topic of conversation the last time the price of gas went sky high too... about 30 years ago...

Truss

No way. A loose definition of "classic" would be any car that, after at least ten years on the market, sells for more than its original MSRP if kept in mint condition.

An 85 RX-7 GSL SE sold for around $16,000 new. A mint example today has a book value of around $4,175 (that's CPI, not crap KBB or NADA). Hardly a good investment.

Even a 1995 RX-7 in mint, no mileage condition will fetch around $23,000. That is far below its original sticker.

The 8 will not be a classic, although values will likely remain solid for the useful service life of the car.

Why do Japanese cars not appreciate in value like other marques? I don't know, but if history is any guide, enjoy your car today.

T.

MP3Guy

Well, why the hell not?????

I subscribed to Keith Martin's Sports Car Market magazine for about three years, and I have seen prices for some vehicles skyrocket in that time. Collecting has become very fashionable and much more broadly popular than in any period in my lifetime, and has now mushroomed into a major industry. The popularity of the Jackson Barrett auctions, with their TV exposure, has fueled interest- and bidding.

Some vehicles, like Shelby Mustangs, have more than tripled in price in just 2 years, by my reckoning. Many Sixties musclecars have AT LEAST tripled, if not more, with some Hemi powered convertibles soaring to over $700,000.
Rods with crate engines have turned into blue chip vehicles almost overnight.
Also of note are vintage race cars, which turned out to be incredible investments.

It's still possible to get a good deal on a classic, but you have to know your stuff mechanically, and market-wise. I am astounded that MGB's, of all things, have been fetching close to $15,000 for a very good example, despite the car being a totally primitive piece of ****.
Meantime, FIAT 124 Spiders, a far better car and most certainly a better investment, go begging for under $10k.
Austin Healy 3000s are now north of 60K for a restored car. You could have bought one for less than a Hyundai not long ago.

Some Ferraris, believe it or not, are good values, like the more recent 308/328/348 series, and Daytona prices, up until recently, had crashed.
But the 1960s cars have really taken off, including some in the 250 series, which were never really loved in their lifetime. (Lusso excepted)

Next time Barrett Jackson is on, watch what some people will pay for a classic.
Jaw dropping stuff.

Regarding your comments on Japanese cars, remember there have not been too many sports cars or "special interest" vehicles produced by Japan - those that have been, like the Toyota 2000 GT featured in the James Bond flick, "You Only Live Twice" are highly desirable. Datsun 1600 convertibles are also desirable as well. In time, you may see the Nissan 300ZX get a good price for a turbo version.

Reeko

Hey MP3Guy,

Any idea how much a restored (but not original engine) 69 Camaro RS Convertable is worth? (I haven't finished the resto yet, but it is almost ready to drive.)

Its funny, I love the camaro, but it really handles like crap compared to the RX. If it didn't look so damn good, and wasn't a convertable, I wouldn't keep it.

MP3Guy

The value is almost completely driven by the engine choice. A 4 bbl. small block helps, and of course, if it's a 396 convertible, you've got something special. I hope the numbers match. Yes, they did have coal cart suspensions, particularly the rear end, but that's part of the charm.

Check out this informative site about your car:

http://www.holisticpage.com/camaro/parts/69protec.htm

Reeko

No, Numbers don't match.
I am restoring it as a driver, not a numbers matching car. But it was originally a 350 4 bbl 4 speed.

Anyway, I guess I just love the look and sound of the car. A gret cruising car, but gets twitchy at speeds over 80 MPH. (Lots of play in the original steering box, I plan to have that looked at).

ptiemann

I think that this C&D magazine may be biased towards American cars (advertisers) when it comes to the term 'classic'.

The way I look at it is that what the GTO, Firebirds and Mustangs were ~ 1970 - ...
this place is now taken by Japanese (sports) cars.

A few years ago I listened on the radio to a car talk show. LA area, one of those 'conservative' guys, talking about the new Mustang and bitching about people souping up Hondas. He say stuff like "you can throw all the money at it, in the end it's still a Honda".

Those guys just have a closed mind, end of story.

As far as the definition that the resale price has to be higher than original sticker price within a few years. Hmm.. Not sure if I'd agree on that one either.

My friend's '75 Alfa Spider "Graduate" is clearly a classic. Even though in good condition, does it fetch a lot of money? I don't think so.

-Peter

ptiemann

P.S.:

This radio guy was so much in love with the Mustang, he said it'd beat a 911, and all facts considered, would favor the Ford it over the Porsche.

Racer X-8

I somehow feel better now, about my getting T-boned in my '73 by a GMC utility pickup and actually flipping it 2.5 times, coming to rest perpendicular to the road - roof conforming perfectly to the storm drainage ditch. :D Poor thing... But then, I bought it brand new for $4k. Hmmmmm.......

Nice other info there, MP3Guy. Yes, those Jackson Barrett auctions are a TRIP! I wish I had half of that kind of $$$ to waste

How about a '93 MX-6? Hehe... don't even bother...

MP3Guy

Too soon. But a Duetto Roundtail goes forabout $12,000-$15,000 for a restored car.

boothguy

Two things drive the value of an old car, IMHO:

One is it's uniqueness and how that uniqueness is perceived by the mainstream buying public. An illustration might be a Ferrari racing car like a GTO or short wheelbase berlinetta, both from the Sixties. Both were made in very small numbers but are "mainstream" enough for non-experts to covet them. The opposite might be a 1928 Franklin - one of the highest-quality cars of its day, but its steam powerplant would repel most potential non-expert buyers.

The second is how the car is remembered by people who wanted one when they were young, combined with where those people are in terms of their "acquiring" years. Early Mustangs, Nissan Zs and the Big Healeys were lusted after by kids who are still in their high-income years and more prone to paying premium bucks to finally own something they could only dream about as kids. Conversely, cars like a 1934 Packard Super 8 have reached a price plateau because the people who remember them fondly as kids are getting into their 80s and not really in a position to be out in the garage farting around with an old car.

Given the general reaction of people, including kids, that see my 8, it certainly meets the second criteria. But it's value will always be hampered by the first.

The best advice is probably from the previous posters who said to enjoy the car now. If you've got the space and the capability to hang onto a car that you enjoy, then do it. You might get a pleasant surprise 30 years down the line. But you might also be hoping someday you'll recoup a fration of what you put into the restoration of a '74 Jensen-Healey.

MP3Guy

I had a new 1974 1800 cc Spider. It was red, I was young, it ran great, and it's still one of my favorite cars.

RENE

Hell no, unless you're referring to the looks.

With the mechanical failures some members are having, you would be insulting the word classic.

Equis

So does that mean the Chrysler 300 will be an instant collectable classic since , it's American, it has a Hemi, it has a butt ugly look that will be appealing from 20 years from now on?

I think the major part of Japanese cars not being true collectables are the simple fact that they are Japanese. I think there is alot of bias it has to be American or other than Japanese to be considered collectable. I think the word classic and collectable are being confused here. Like it has been said before anything old is classic, just like my old 1979 RCA TV is classic but not a collectable to the mainstream.

Japanese cars have a stigma of being seen as those POS cars in the school parking lots with the stickers and oversized rims and never taken seriously with few exceptions.

MP3Guy

Rice will NEVER be collectable. It's cheap and trashy looking. But the interesting designs will fetch good prices.

GiN

I don't think 10 years is enough. Maybe 30 years. I don't think there are any cars made during my lifetime that I would consider "classic" as of yet.

rx8fan23

even 70's corvettes are cheap. you can buy them for around 10-15 thousand.
yet they are clearly a classic

JCrane82

iTrader: (3)

Awesome 8 year bump, and I am not being sarcastic.

My two cents: I think the rx8 will be inline with first and second gen rx7's. It won't ever reach FD status though.

Myardor

iTrader: (7)

What? You were trying to PIMP your granny?

After 8 more years did you a better offer or
did her engine die?

Slidin8

Rotarys are loved here in NZ so they hold value really well

A FD RX7 actually costs around the same or more as a RX8 here

monchie

Only die hard rx8 enthusiast will offer more money when it comes to this.

Cornbred

Value is based on what people will pay for any given object, something that is classic defines an era, the 8 doesnt define an era at all and it may have value many many years down the road if another proper rotory isnt developed, the only saving grace it has at this point is recognition, drive past a load of teenage kids that play racing video games, they know what it is and will let you know (happens to me all the time) if they feel the need to purchase something they couldnt get or have any desire for it becouse of some random video game memory then it has a possibility of classic status. All said and done i wouldnt bet on it, but i didnt buy an 8 for 30 years down the road I bought it for what it is now, and thats ear to ear fun.

j9fd3s

true, but there are three important differences between the 240Z and the Rx8.

firstly the 240Z was a sensation when it came out, people waited in line and paid markups to get them, like the original Rx7, or miata.

second, every Z after the 240 has been bigger dumber and uglier, so from 74-88 they made big fat junk with disco dashboards and velour interiors. remember when the Z32 came out it was a sensation, even though its still a ugly POS.

thirdly the 240Z's are pushing 40.

the Rx8 hasn't had that, and while it is a really great car (except for a couple things), i'm not sure people really got the idea right away, things like the rear doors make it really practical, but is it a 4 door? a sports car? the Rx8 isn't perceived to be better than the FD either, although it is in just about every way

the good side of this is that the Rx8 is awesome, f-ing cheap and its totally unrealistic to think that ANY car you own is gong to make huge dollars anyways. sure the current sale price of your 1970 240Z is bigger than the sticker price in 1970, but who paid to store/maintain the thing?

mike