Hiro

Ok I've seen threads about the 8 vs a variety of cars.....whether its 0-60 times....1/4 times....usually stopped position but, what about a in a already moving position.
The reason I'm interested in this is because now that I live in a Germany and had my 8 shipped from the states, I know there are going to be those BMW's, Audis, VW, Opels, and such trying to start something on the autobahn.
So far I've I'd say the BMW M3 and Porsche 911 are definately not to be messed with.

Pretty much all the German cars here are governed at 250km an hour. Thats 155mph. I know my eight can get up to about 148 fairly quickly and cuts off at 244 km an hour. Thats 152 mph.
I know that not every car in Germany can get up to 155mph. As far as the 3 series BMW's are concerned only the 330 and the M3 can reach that speed...( the M3 can can do more though)

The car I'm wondering about mainly is the audi TT. From what I've read so far the 225 hp TT and the 225 BMW 330ci are pretty close matches for the manual 8. I don't know much about the TT so thats why I'm asking about it here in the forum.

I know its a little different comparison compared to the typical street light racing or 1/4 race. This would be at already high speeds for extended periods of time. Then there is the question of lets say...a bimmer 325ci being able to reach 155mph but, how long would it actually take to accelerate to that point. Over how many miles would of slow accleration would it take to get there. Stuff like that basically. Things that I wonder about here because it is legal to drive at such speeds. Also...being that the 8 is a high reving engine and its weak point being low torque....on the autobahn this wouldn't be a factor anymore.

Hmm....I'm kinda curious on the responses to this. Of course I wouldn't be asking if it weren't legal to drive so fast. Opinions welcome. Thanks.

Tony

willhave8

Man, I get what your after in terms of a discussion but as I think of it, it hurts to think how you get to drive this car that is just not possible here. Enjoy it and let us know what you find.
Craig

Omicron

Let's not let this turn into a street racing thread or it will be "disappeared," but this is an interesting quesion.

Ike

Ok, so can I talk about street racing on here as long as I don't go faster than 65, since that's the speedlimit here...

It's silly to allow this and not other streetracing threads, especially since I'm sure racing in Germany is just as illegal as it is here, and probably has even more serious consequences in legal penalty, and in severity of the accident..

I also find it sort of odd that he's asking about the Audi TT, since it had a worldwide recal due to fatal accidents from driving at high speeds, including the death of a German rally champ. As a result the car is also governed to 125mph. Plus, how is something a race if it's at high speed for extended periods of time? That would involve racing through traffic and is far more dangerous than any 90% of the street racing you would read about on an actual streetracing forum...

5Gen_Prelude

The recall involved putting a wing on the back - ie the tail was loose.

Ike

Correct, and it was also governed to 125mph, unless it was already before the accidents but I don't think is was.

RobDickinson

Recall involved the rear (ugly)wing and some suspension changes which made it nasty to drive.

But the 1.8 225 TT is easy meat for an RX-8 even at low speeds.

Katchoo

Speaking of wings - a pal at work spotted a yellow '8' here that had sprouted - get this - one of those mail-order wings you see so many of the wanna-be racers sporting these days...you know the ones: aluminum grirder side risers, straight wing, end plates, etc.

Anyway, cannot even imagine what it looked like. Hopefully the owner is happy.

Hiro

Ok lets look at it this way....I'm sure you're all familiar with Nurnburg Ring. I have not been there yet nor would I put my 8 on the track anyway. But, I mentioned the autobahn because this sorta thing happens often. With everyone driving in the right lane there are many places that you can drive fast on the autobahn. I'm not saying that is ok to talk about streetracing but, this is a place that driving fast is allowed and things like this happen all the time. I'm just curious on the everyones opinions on this particular situation. For me its a common thing everyday since taking the autobahn is the fastest and most direct route home.
I hope this doesn't sound like a streetracing story because there isn't one to begin with. I'm just wondering how the 8 would perform against another vehicle on a straight away with no traffic travelling at a high speed for say 2 to 3 miles starting at 80 mph or so. Thanks

Tony

Sue Esponte

Beware the TT 225 owner who wants to race because what lies underneath the hood could easily be more than meets the eye. The 225 is easily and relatively inexpensively chipped to put out 265hp+. Add a FMIC, exhaust and a few other relatively inexpensive mods and the car's hp output quickly approaches 300hp. Several tuners also offer (and some will soon offer) a street legal Stage III kit for the 225 that will far exceed that 300hp figure. There are tons of VAG tuners that work on the 1.8T engine. It's a durable motor that's found its way into a lot of VAG cars so the development market is huge.

The recall issue is also blown way out of proportion by those not familiar with what occurred. People discovered that at Autobahn speeds a non-spoilered TT's rear wheels had a tendency to come lose due to lack of downforce on the car's rearend. Most people in the US can't even approach those speeds on our highways. As I recall, the accidents occured at speeds in excess of 140mph. As soon as there were reports of a few accidents in Germany, Audi recalled the TT and retrofit the cars with a spoiler and modified suspension setup [these components are now standard on all TTs and only owners who refused the recall (it was not mandatory just to give you a sense of the true gravity of the issue) or removed their spoilers don't have one on their car].

I'm not sure what you're really asking for or looking to find but I'd have to agree with others on racing. Keep it off of the streets.

-Eric

Spin9k

Hiro, I look forward to your experiences. I used to live in Switzerland, and visited Germany many times with my Prelude and found the autobaun to be an eyeopener! Life is vastly different there on the open road than here. Here, everyone is a wannabe racer on our overcrowded, over-policed roads. There, bragging rights go to the VERY BEST cars on the road, no questions asked. Obey the (german) law, and all will be OK, as long as you don't crash (messy)!

It definitly IS NOT street racing as you say, but Americans just don't have a point of reference sadly, unless they've been there, done that.

Please keep us posted and enjoy. We NEED expanded horizons here in the good old USA!

Hornet

Although I've never been to Germany, I know quite a few people who have and among them it seems all of them say the Germans are better drivers (actually some say in Europe in general they are better drivers).

As far as the question put forth, I don't have any experience putting an Audi TT against an 8 on the road but I would be led to believe that the AWD versions would be at a disadvantage at autobahn speeds where the drivetrain loss would probably be more obvious. Especially if they don't have a large enough hp advantage.

Sue Esponte

I'm not sure why drivetrain losses would be more evident at highway speeds, but the TT's Quattro system is actually VW's 4Motion and not "true" Audi Quattro. The front wheels, therefore, propel the TT absent a small percentage of wheel slippage or variation in rotational speed. Forgetting turns and inclement weather, in a straight line at highway speeds the TT Quattro essentially operates as a FWD vehicle.

-Eric

Psylence

TT has horrible horrible understeer due to the suspension modifications that Audi mandated.

My bro has a 225hp TT with some performance mods and he is about ready to ditch it after driving my RX8. It'd cost close to $4k in suspension to set the TT right, and then it's still going to be at the mercy of its nanny-esque AWD setup.

Sue Esponte

Although I'd have to agree that the MKI set up was better than the revised suspension following the recall, the stock TT's biggest failing is its OEM shocks. And, unless you absolutely NEED a set of coilovers, a set of good shocks and springs and 1/2 KMAC kit for the rear will not set you back $4K.

And, I don't get how its AWD set-up is anywhere near "nanny-esque"....especially in the winter. See ya!

-Eric

Psylence

Nanny-esque is the systems preference for provoking understeer when the car is pushed.

$4k figure comes from pricing in coilovers and the cost of dialing them in, as well as proper swaybars. Just replacing shocks is doing the job halfway...

His big fear is, after all that work/money getting the car to handle in a more neutral fashion, the ECU still won't let you get away with it due to an overzealous AWD brain. There is a very specific reason why you can purchase a controller for the Haldex AWD setup... But who wants to tack on multi-thousands in mods to make a car handle properly?

Lawerence

First the conversation wasnt about handling. It was just lead there by the high speed stability issue and the change in suspension design.

Sue Esponte

IMHO, a coilover suspension can be pretty harsh for daily driving...even if it's dialed down.

I think you might be confusing ESP with AWD. As I understand the mechanics of the understeer issue, it's not really dialed in through the Haldex unit as much as it's a part of the car's ESP program (which is partially defeatable). ESP is the system that controls (along with traction control) braking and engine timing to correct a perceived stability problem. I agree that this system is overly protective. Especially if your brother's car is chipped, he's inevitably found it difficult to take a hard launch from a start without engaging ESP.

A lot of people turn ESP off at the track or in conditions that you want to be able to spin the wheels....but that only means you'll have 4 wheels spinning instead of two.

-Eric

Caecil

Hai Tony,
(and to all Americans)

Germany is a great country for speed-loving drivers. The Autobahns are realy good and designed for speed and I'm realy lookin' forward to take my 8 for a ride (after a while). Maybe to Ramstein (accompanied by Rammstein on the CD player!). As speedlimits in Holland are 100 or 120 kph, crossing the border with Germany is like driving into "the promissed land" where there are only speedlimits near citys and dangerous roads.
Slower drivers mostly keep on the right (unless they are Dutch, i'm sorry to say) so you can drive up to your own cars speedlimit.

In general every "German-over-50,000 EURO-car" is potentionally fast, like you mentioned the Porshe, BMW, Audi and of course Mercedes. Also don't mess with VW Phantom, Opel Speedster, tuned Alfa GTV, Nissan 350Z , Mitsu Lancer Evo 8 (new), as they all go 250 km (or more, but illegal).
According to Mazda.nl the limit of an European RX 8 Hi Power is 235 km.ph, so, they are all faster but it also depends on the drivers skills of course.
Keep distance, do not chase, but enjoy the speed together with others!
Drive safe, have fun, great fun!

Hornet

Well I learned something new! I'm going to have to find some information about the 4Motion system.

So I guess the question is still unanswered. I did notice the AWD TT's are heavier than the 8 but I guess there are still more variables like the way the cars are geared in comparison to each other.

Hiro

I'm glad that a few of you see my view. Its nice to hear from a few of those that live here or have been here before.

Caecil...I'm not sure where exactly the city that you are from is...but, I have friends that live in Hoorn and I plan on making a trip up there sometime. Maybe in the future. Just so you know the fastests I've had my 8 is 244km or 152mph here on the autobahn. Then again...the american version has 238ps (thats Hp for americans) so maybe thats why its a little bit faster. Oh ya, thats without any mods. If you decide to make it down this way just let me know....so we can meet up.

The comparison I was trying to make was a bit broad. I guess I intended it to be directed towards stock cars. Like the BMW 330ci stock, which in my opinions seems to be a close match for the 8. I don't know much about audi tt or a4 series but stock on the autobahn...how would an 8 hold up.

I see the 8's weak point being off the line or at a stop light. I see the 8 having an advantage on the curve. So take away both the disadvantage and the advantage. Straight autobahn driving...starting around 80mph or 130 km, all cars stock.

I've don't know what some of the cars you mentioned look like....vw phantom, opel speedster, alfa gtv....hmmm....maybe this summer though

Caecil

Hiro,
Beverwijk is about 30 km west from Amsterdam, so also near Hoorn, by German or American standards anyway.
Meet you when you arrive in Hoorn, I also have freinds over there who would love to see RX-8x2!!!!!

My English is not that good, I'm sorry but I don't know what you exactly mean by "stock". The cars I mentioned are straight from the dealer, realy fast. Phaetom is the most expensive, 12 cilinder, VW executive car. It's costs about twice the amount you pay for a RX-8, and isn't really the car your lookin for, but fast. You must have met the Opel Speedster in Germany. My current car is not slow, but I had a hard time trying to follow it, and the 2004 model is even faster 0-100 km ph in less than 5 seconds!
The Mitsubishi Evo VIII is brand new in Europe, at least in Holland. It looks like this is a car that screams out to be modified by its new owners. It looks like crap, personally I really dislike it, but it is a serious competator, top 250 kmph, 265 Bhp, 0-100 km in 6,0 seconds. The American version is even beter, but due to emission standards in Europe we have to do with less....