Deadly crash in Chicago!
 

This is very sad.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...l=chi-news-hed

Appears to be either a BB or Black Cherry Shinka.

WTF? They were doing something wrong. If they weren't, the car wouldn't have crashed. Prolly didn't have DSC.

-Steakboy

WOW you know i have always felt concerned about accidents in the car, not cause of safety but what if the person infront is passed out and im on the back for W/E reason? specially if the car is catching fire. there is no way to get out. that sucks they probably part of the forums too.

What? I have never owned a car with DSC, including my 8. That has not caused me to wreck.

He has 18 inch OEM wheels so I doubt he has no DSC.

he DID something wrong, which was revving engine and speed up at stop light. Probably has stock tires and didnt know it suck.

Anyway, sorry to see someone died.

Hopefully they were dead on impact. Raises concerns of fire hazard for the rest of us. The impact looks bad but no worse than some people have walked away from.

I afraid they did not die on impact.

"...the vehicle fishtailed and then went out of control, striking the pillar and spinning around before catching fire. This morning the car was taken to the Cook County medical examiner's office where firefighters could be seen cutting through it to remove the burned bodies."

The photo does not represent the impact, but where where the vehicle came to a rest.

I got a screen cap of the video, blew it up and looked at the front left wheel. The driver had the stock 18's with summer rubber on them. Let's see: wet conditions, low or moderately low temperatures and showing off for the girls in the back seat combined with probably inexperience due to age of the driver.

Very sad, I feel for the familys of those kids. This should be a reminder to anyone out there not using common sense. Drive at speeds conditions allow and for F*#k's sake use the right tires.

75 degree in MD today. I still have winter tires on because its March.

At least one of them did NOT die on impact. cuz ppl heard someone was screaming for help, but they cant get to the car cuz the fire started already.

*sigh* ...

unfortunately it doesn't look like that from the article. rescue workers couldn't get to the people in the back yelling for help. i feel terrible for the families. this truly is a tragedy.

knowing the street they were on though, rain and 60 mph would certainly be a bad combo if they were on summer tires.

My point exactly.

Summer tires gonna run like crap in Winter. You can move your car, but good luck on stopping it.

oh well.

damn that sucks...

I'm just saying DSC would've helped save it. Chalk it up to inexperience.

-Steakboy

Damn. I cruise through wacker drive all the time in the summer and I have hit some pretty dumbtarded speed down there too. Probably inexperiance + RWD + wet + speed.

Temperatures in the midwest have been very warm the past few days. I doubt winter tires would have helped...

I'm also guilty of being a lower wacker dr fan and exercising bad judgement down there. Its curvy, few police, few people, and the walls echo the engine sounds...

i agree though... inexperience, rwd, wet, speed ...

thoughts and condolences. horrible way to go.

this is a really concerning issue that now is going to flow. i mean that can happen more often i have always made jokes with my friends when they on the back of my car about if "we crash and the car burns you know you die right"never saying shit like that again

The sad thing is, I wonder if the firefighters couldn't pull the people out of the back because they didn't know how to operate the suicide door, or maybe didn't even know it was there. People getting in my car's backseat for the first time ALWAYS try to bring the seat down and try to squeeze through the crack, not knowing that there was a door.

/\ Me too. I usually make my runs early Sunday mornings. I know the spot well and I don't understand how they lost traction.
For those of you that don't know. Wacker Dr follows the Chicago River. It goes east/west from the lakefront then makes a 90 degree bend to run north/south along the south branch of the river. The road is tiered with an Upper Wacker Dr , where all the business is done and Lower Wacker Dr., which is a faster way to get across the city & avoid traffic. The only thing on Lower Wacker is access to loading docks and parking garages.
The e/w portion was reconstructed a couple of years ago. The concrete surface is smooth and the area is well lit. The n/s portion has lots of pot holes, most of which have been patched.

what's lower wacker?

in any case im going to keep a small hammer on the back by where the center console is. so "In case of fire break glass" and come out thru the back.

A spring loaded center punch works great at breaking auto glass.

Wacker Drive is a very busy downtown street, running alongside the Chicago River. It was built with two levels: street level and a lower level—mainly for trucks to make deliveries without disrupting traffic. Cars can use the lower level, too. The lower level is called "lower wacker".

I wonder if the guy was wide open throttle through that corner. In the rain, second gear can definately break the rears loose at full throttle. We can't all assume that he has the experience to feel the limit and use the right amount of throttle. When the car got loose, he may have lifted. I agree that he probably didn't have DSC. Those of you who use the road for fun all the time have probably built up your understanding of the road over time. Ask yourselves if you could go through there WOT at 60mph in 2nd gear, which is what it sounds like he did from the witness descriptions.

As for the firefighters not being able to open the rear doors, there is no excuse for that. The RX8 isn't the only car with suicide rear doors. Honda element (not so common), and crew cab trucks have used them for years, and they all have pretty much the same latch location.

I was going to say the same thing. If they can extract one of the guy from the front, they should have no problem accessing the suicide door on that side unless it was rendered inoperable by the crash.

When I let someone sit in the back, I always let them open and close the suicide door themselves, so they know how to pull the handle to get out.

It feels like your driving underground. Alot of the guys like it because of the echo, you get from the engine.

Regardless of whether the driver was at fault or not, it was a tragic accident and a horrible way to die for all parties involved.

Whenever I have people in the car, I'm a safe driver. Being responsible for people's lives is a very serious matter.

Wreckless driving is solo driving.

I never push my 8 with passengers. I feel for the families involved. I have lost friends due to these sort of accidents. This is why I pay $200 a month for insurance.

Detrich, the guy died, you don't have to call him a fuckhead. A lot of people screw around in their cars, some people mess up.

we started following this this morning on the chicago forum...a friend of theirs joined and posted. I thought you guys should read it too.

Another tragedy in an 8
 

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/2...031407.article

This happened today in chicago....sad.

What bugs me is the reporting... One eyewitness says they though the car was "going as fast as possible from the last stoplight". I know my car can hit about 80 mph between my complex exit and the nearest intersection, which is almost the distance I can through a baseball! Whether or not this car, with 3 people in it, could hit that speed is subject to debate. My question is, if it's a 2004 RX-8, were those stock rear tires. If so, I'll bet they were bald.

Second point of contention, the video shot by the news looks like the street is mostly straight there. They crashed an RX-8 in a straight line? Hopped a curb and slammed into a pole sideways? The only photo I can see shows skid marks in the foreground (the photo posted at the beginning of this thread). This means not only did they skid around backwards, but slid through one lane before going over the curb and slamming into that massive overpass support (technically, that's not a "pole" but a big-ass piece of iron and concrete!). That car has massive structural damage (the video shows the roof is crumpled all the way over to the driver's side). Folks, I'm going to say this car was FLYING!

I'm puzzled by the spinout and loss of control with available DSC and the helical LSD in the back. There's no mention of a puddle, or hydroplaning in the police quote. The police begin their quote with "The vehicle...", which is like saying "The gun went off while in the criminal's hand..." Even the closing, tear-jerking comment by one of the deceased victims' friends blames the car... "It was just wet, and with that type of car..."

Yes folks, the verdict is in in the media. Our gas-guzzling, CO2-emitting RX-8s are dangerous irresponsible vehicles, more likely to launch us off straight roads sideways, into massive "poles", resulting in a fiery deaths (unfortunately for the two passengers. Don't get me wrong. This IS a tragedy for the families involved, even the driver's.

But... could the people following not have helped? Did they just stand around and watch? The quoted eyewitness said he was "several cars back" at the stoplight, which indicates there were more cars, and thus possibly more people who could have gotten involved. That driver's door looks like it was opened without any force, despite the damage to the car. If the movie companies would stop showing car "explosions" more people would know that gasoline simply burns, and they might have been able to help those poor students out by wrapping a shirt over their hands before yanking on the door handle. Yeah, you might get a little scaling from it, but isn't that better than watching people die. That's what truly makes me sick and mad!

oops...sorry

I can tell you from personal experience that DSC will not help you on wet cold pavement with stock summer tires. Winter road salt, melting snow and a lack of sunshine only make things worse.
DSC needs some grip to work with and at some point the inertia of the car overwhelms the available grip and control is lost.
This tragedy, like so many others, was completely avoidable.

^ Actually thinking about it hoping a curb on wacker would take some serious speed. Majority fo the curbs down there are 6". As mentioned earlier in this thread though there are sections with a lot of pot holes and hitting one in the wet at speed could make ANY car lose traction (even around slight turns).I have felt the back end move around on me down there(I have a base model with no DSC) so it is possible but you woudl have to be going REALLY fast (110+).

In terms of the reporting the news likes to make a "story" which may or may not involve all of the facts. A buddy of mine was in a miata going about 70(common for the highways around Chicago) when he got cut off by an H2 driven by a mindless person jabering on their phone. He went off road rolled the car(he was fine). The eye witnesses said he was driving irresponsibly, and as you had stated the police report started with "the vehical went off road....." reporting a "story" instead of facts ticks me off.

I really feel for the families. It was just a big mistake that costed him his life and 2 others. My guess he was showing off. I've been there and the dsc/tc is a burden when you try and burn out with 2 cuties in the back.

But if it makes anyone feel any better the whole article is FAKE. Did anyone catch the "It took off real fast from the stoplight after revving its engine". Gimme a break, our cars couldn't do that, especially with 2 passengers.

Maybe it was turboed?

To the average non car enthusiast the rx-8 does take off real fast.

+1 I never drive fast with passengers. It'd be the worst thing to kill your passenger than have to live the rest of your life knowing you killed someone while showing off

Anyone around here know what the lakefront temp was when this happened?

It makes me kinda sick that someone was alive and suffocated in the back because someone wouldn't go in there to pull the door open, or break the back window to pull them out.

The fire damage doesn't look very bad from the pic at all. The radiator is fully intact so that right there says that either the fire wasn't in the engine compartment or wasn't that hot...

I don't know the road at all, nor do I know the driver, but I think its safe to say that this could have happened to anyone on these forums, so there's no need to be so damn critical.

Let's assume that he was on the right tires, he had DSC, he was saftey-conscious, he wasn't driving as fast as the media is leading us to beleive, and he was a pretty damn decent driver. Like anyone here, he loves the sound of his engine, and was trying to show it off a little to his passengers. He revs at the light, but that fails to satisfy, so he quickly gets off the line and shows off the sound whilst in motion. Shifting @ 9k from 1st to 2nd was smooth as glass, which he wasn't expecting due to the wet condidtions. Misled by this moment of unexpected traction, he gives it a more agressive shift from 2nd to 3rd...
...Back end slips...
Stunned by this sudden slip, he quickly counter-steers, lets off the throttle, and proceeds to put his driving experience to good use and SAFELY recover the car. However, being an experienced driver, he almost always drives with his DSC off, but tonight, given the weather and the additional passengers, decided to turn it on for this particular trip.
Well, in that instant of slip, insticts took over, and he found himself severely over-correcting as the DSC jumped in. With computers botching up his finely-tuned reflexes, he finds his car sliding sideways @ 60+mph. He tries his best to recover, but it's too late...





Now be honest - anyone here is guilty of speeding. We've all shown off, we've all reved for the sake of hearing our engines, we've all had fun droping the jaws of RX-virgins, and we've all lost control for a second or two while just having a little fun. You don't have to be doing something outrageously stupid to wreck your car, and not all crashes involving speeding vehicles are the result of inexperience.
Yeah, it's possible that this guy could have been carelessly and recklessly driving beyond his ability. But there's also a chance that he could have been an intelligent, curteous, cautious guy who knew his limits, but was just unfortuneate enough to take a small chance at the worst possible moment in time.

Horrified. I feel for their suffering and now their families as well.

+1 to fast being relative - w/o trying to push my 8, I generally leave all the other cars at a stoplight behind quickly. When trying they become specs even quicker.

+1 to turbo - that was the first thing I though - or perhaps a wet shot.

+1 to not taking risks w/passengers. I've always felt that it's my choice to f8ck around when it will only be me who pays the price.

My .02 on the fire - the article sounded like it was a fast and very intense fire. Not really the kind anyone (including the firefighters) could get through safely.

Which leads me to wonder what was in the trunk - and what pics of the rear of the car would look like.

accidents like this is why fewer and fewer cars will have a disable switch for stability control

Wow... I just bought my 8 less than a week ago... this is a chilling story. I suppose the only thing I could really say is, take this as a lesson that we are not invincible, even in our really great cars. It's like Uncle Ben said, with great powers, comes great responsibility.

It's tough to hold back when you've got more power than 90% of the folks around you. We can only speculate on what happened, but deep down we all know this could have happened to any of us.

My prayers to the families & friends whom lost their loved ones.... and to all my fellow 8 drivers on this forum.

I'm trying to learning all the mechanics of my car before I really take her out for a drive... Like G.I. Joe said, "Knowing is half the battle.." Until then, I'll be taking baby steps to get to know the car.

Alas, no one can defeat the forces of nature... RESPECT her or be owned...

:sad:

It is sad that this happened.

The two females weren't drinking but it wasn't reported if the driver was. One of the friends that wasn't with stated that they weren't speeding, drinking, or doing anything wrong. :dunno: How can they say that if they weren't there? :confused:

The coverage seemed very improv.

Very sad for the families and ALL concerned, I would imagine the firefighters would be impacted also..
Please have some respect, as Zoom said in another thread this could be a forum member.

Now this one I will totaly agree with.

I have done stupid shit, typically without people in the car, but I am guilty of doing certain dumb things with people in the car. And guilty of losing control with someone in the car when I was doing something I have done safely dozens of times in the past. I was able to control it enough for nothing bad to happen, but some times you just aren't expecting things to go wrong.

Wait until it's picked up by the MSM... the story will shift to "Dangerous Sport Car Causes Fiery Deaths".

My .02... there's some other cause of the spin up the road from the crash. Pot hole or puddle. An RX-8 with a 15% increase in rear weight bias (two passengers) will not "just fishtail and lose control", DSC or no DSC! If the car didn't spin the tires during the 1st to 2nd shift, it's not going to do it at the 2-3 upshift (all conditions being the same). A pothole, mid-corner while accelerating would do it. The question I have for Chicagoans is: Is there a turn to the left or the right preceeding the crash site on Lower Wanker Road?

(+ FYI to everyone who's mad at the "do-nothing" witnesses)

The article doesn't say that the passenger in the back died from being burned alive - it says she died of smoke inhalation. The gas tank could have ruptured & ignited UNDER and AROUND the vehicle. If there are flames coming up from the gasoline-soaked concrete by the doors, no wrapping of shirts around your hands is going to make opening the door possible. The intense heat from the fire outside of the vehicle would be enough to cause all the interior plastic, rubber, and leather to melt, bubble, and smoke. All of those materials emit toxic vapors when heated.
Fill a compartment as small as an RX8 interior with 3 types of toxic gases + gasoline vapors and you've got a lethal mixture. Put someone inside that compartment who's hyperventilating from fear/injury/fighting to get out/screaming for help, and within 60 seconds their bloodstream will be filled with enough toxins to cause them to black-out.
Based on the picture & video provided, I don't think there was anything witnesses could have done to help, nor do I think the passengers were fully concious/aware enough to "suffer" much before they died.


Why does everyone on these boards have to be so damn critical and negative about the human race? Seriously, I don't understand how someone can live assuming that everything written between the lines is just pure & rotten miserable human stupidity and arrogance.

Very sad for the families. Not for me to criticize, God knows I've done way more than my share of dumb shit over the past 50 years. I've just been luckier than some other people.

I don't know if it's a factor in this crash, but leave your DSC on when you're on the street! It is absolutely the best part of this car. I know I'll get arguments, but if you pay attention, the DSC will certainly help you avoid these situations. Just a word to the wise.