Considering an '04 RX-8 as first car -- have a few questions...
11-16-2008, 09:32 PM
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Considering an '04 RX-8 as first car -- have a few questions...
Hello all,
I'm 18 years old and currently in the market to purchase my first vehicle.
I've looked at many different cars, from Acura TSXs to Audi A4s, as well as a trio of Mazdas -- the 3, 6, and the RX-8. I've always had a thing for Mazdas, and the RX series has allured me ever since the first time I saw an FB RX-7 backfire when I was younger.
After doing lots of reading, research, and a short test drive (albeit in a slushbox -- more on this after), I've decided that the RX-8 fulfills my needs (and wants
) perfectly. It looks great (unlike anything else on the road), handling is sublime while still maintaining a livable ride, it's quick and a joy to rev, it's well-built, and it's reasonably practical. It's a car I can have some genuine fun with, while still being able to haul 3 friends along with a decent amount of luggage. Not to mention it's currently the only Wankel-powered production car in the world today. I love it.
With that said, I do realize that the RX-8 has it's fair share of quirks. I know you have to treat it's engine differently, as a rotary engine rather than a conventional piston motor. I know you can't start it in the cold, then almost immediately shut it off without revving the engine to 4000 RPMs for 10 seconds, otherwise running the risk of flooding it. I know it healthier for the engine to be redlined at least once daily to remove carbon build-up. I know it's quite thirsty when it comes to gas, and asks for premium to boot. I also know that it consumes more oil than normal engines by design.
I've spoke to several people, both in person and on other automotive forums, about the RX-8 (including a few sales representatives at Mazda dealerships), and I've been getting negative comments about how well it copes with winter driving (I live in Toronto by the way), how much oil it drinks, repair costs, insurance costs (I now know most insurance companies consider the 8 a four-door), apex seals, and a few other "issues."
Then again, I also hear that many of the negative comments come form non-owners. That's why I signed-up here. So my questions are:
1.) Reliability: How would you rate it? What are common problems? Are repairs expensive? How exactly does Mazda's 8 year/160,000 km warranty extension plan work? Does Mazda honor the warranty only on 2009s, or all model years from 2004 and up?
2.) Fuel economy: How bad is it really? Is premium required, or recommended?
3.) Oil consumption: Mazda recommends checking it at every other fill-up. Is it really that bad?
4.) Winter driving: I realize the car has traction control, stability control, and LSD, but the car sits quite low. How well does it cope with slippery conditions? Are winter tires a necessity? How does it compare to, say, a G35 sedan (my mom's was a nightmare last winter without snow tires)?
5.) Manual transmission: I know the basics of driving a manual car, but I've never driven one. Is the RX-8 an easy car to learn on?
6.) First model year gremlins: For every car out there, the first model year usually has some bugs that are eventually worked out over the car's lifetime. Are there any serious problems with 2004 model year RX-8s that I should know about? I'm seeing extremely low prices for 2004 models with relatively low kilometers on Auto Trader.
Examples:
a.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...0&adid=7271625
b.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...0&adid=7382734
c.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...5&adid=7383038
Should I be cautious?
Thanks in advance guys.
I'm 18 years old and currently in the market to purchase my first vehicle.
I've looked at many different cars, from Acura TSXs to Audi A4s, as well as a trio of Mazdas -- the 3, 6, and the RX-8. I've always had a thing for Mazdas, and the RX series has allured me ever since the first time I saw an FB RX-7 backfire when I was younger.
After doing lots of reading, research, and a short test drive (albeit in a slushbox -- more on this after), I've decided that the RX-8 fulfills my needs (and wants
) perfectly. It looks great (unlike anything else on the road), handling is sublime while still maintaining a livable ride, it's quick and a joy to rev, it's well-built, and it's reasonably practical. It's a car I can have some genuine fun with, while still being able to haul 3 friends along with a decent amount of luggage. Not to mention it's currently the only Wankel-powered production car in the world today. I love it.With that said, I do realize that the RX-8 has it's fair share of quirks. I know you have to treat it's engine differently, as a rotary engine rather than a conventional piston motor. I know you can't start it in the cold, then almost immediately shut it off without revving the engine to 4000 RPMs for 10 seconds, otherwise running the risk of flooding it. I know it healthier for the engine to be redlined at least once daily to remove carbon build-up. I know it's quite thirsty when it comes to gas, and asks for premium to boot. I also know that it consumes more oil than normal engines by design.
I've spoke to several people, both in person and on other automotive forums, about the RX-8 (including a few sales representatives at Mazda dealerships), and I've been getting negative comments about how well it copes with winter driving (I live in Toronto by the way), how much oil it drinks, repair costs, insurance costs (I now know most insurance companies consider the 8 a four-door), apex seals, and a few other "issues."
Then again, I also hear that many of the negative comments come form non-owners. That's why I signed-up here. So my questions are:
1.) Reliability: How would you rate it? What are common problems? Are repairs expensive? How exactly does Mazda's 8 year/160,000 km warranty extension plan work? Does Mazda honor the warranty only on 2009s, or all model years from 2004 and up?
2.) Fuel economy: How bad is it really? Is premium required, or recommended?
3.) Oil consumption: Mazda recommends checking it at every other fill-up. Is it really that bad?
4.) Winter driving: I realize the car has traction control, stability control, and LSD, but the car sits quite low. How well does it cope with slippery conditions? Are winter tires a necessity? How does it compare to, say, a G35 sedan (my mom's was a nightmare last winter without snow tires)?
5.) Manual transmission: I know the basics of driving a manual car, but I've never driven one. Is the RX-8 an easy car to learn on?
6.) First model year gremlins: For every car out there, the first model year usually has some bugs that are eventually worked out over the car's lifetime. Are there any serious problems with 2004 model year RX-8s that I should know about? I'm seeing extremely low prices for 2004 models with relatively low kilometers on Auto Trader.
Examples:
a.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...0&adid=7271625
b.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...0&adid=7382734
c.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...5&adid=7383038
Should I be cautious?
Thanks in advance guys.
Last edited by Rashad; 11-16-2008 at 09:58 PM.
11-16-2008, 09:53 PM
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1.) Reliability: How would you rate it? What are common problems? Are repairs expensive? How exactly does Mazda's 8 year/160,000 km warranty extension plan work? Does Mazda honor the warranty only on 2009s, or all model years from 2004 and up?
2.) Fuel economy: How bad is it really? Is premium required, or recommended?
3.) Oil consumption: Mazda recommends checking it at every other fill-up. Is it really that bad?
4.) Winter driving: I realize the car has traction control, stability control, and LSD, but the car sits quite low. How well does it cope with slippery conditions? Are winter tires a necessity? How does it compare to, say, a G35 sedan (my mom's was a nightmare last winter without snow tires)?
5.) Manual transmission: I know the basics of driving a manual car, but I've never driven one. Is the RX-8 an easy car to learn on?
5.) First model year gremlins: For every car out there, the first model year usually has some bugs that are eventually worked out over the car's lifetime. Are there any serious problems with 2004 model year RX-8s that I should know about? I'm seeing extremely low prices for 2004 models with relatively low kilometers on Auto Trader
2.) Fuel economy: How bad is it really? Is premium required, or recommended?
3.) Oil consumption: Mazda recommends checking it at every other fill-up. Is it really that bad?
4.) Winter driving: I realize the car has traction control, stability control, and LSD, but the car sits quite low. How well does it cope with slippery conditions? Are winter tires a necessity? How does it compare to, say, a G35 sedan (my mom's was a nightmare last winter without snow tires)?
5.) Manual transmission: I know the basics of driving a manual car, but I've never driven one. Is the RX-8 an easy car to learn on?
5.) First model year gremlins: For every car out there, the first model year usually has some bugs that are eventually worked out over the car's lifetime. Are there any serious problems with 2004 model year RX-8s that I should know about? I'm seeing extremely low prices for 2004 models with relatively low kilometers on Auto Trader
1) Warranty is honored as long as you're within the 8yr/100k miles, goes for all year models. It's only on the engine/powertrain I believe.
2) 10-18mpg city, 20-28mpg highway is generally what I squeeze out of mine. Premium only. Some run regular, depends on your car, some take regular, some don't.
3) No it's not that bad, but what's a few minutes of your time to make sure you have enough oil and aren't damaging the engine? I check mine once a month, or I wait for the light to beep, means the oil is half empty (or half full).
4) It's got LSD? Holy ****?! Where? Don't let the cops find it.
Winter tires are a must as far as I've seen. DSC/TC are there to help you keep traction, they don't prevent 100% traction loss and are not infallible.
5) I learned to drive manual on mine, it was easy as pie
6) As long as all the recalls have been done and it's been kept in good condition, oil has been changed regularly and stuff (basic maintenance) then there shouldn't be a problem.
Last edited by DarkLord7854; 11-16-2008 at 10:27 PM.
11-16-2008, 09:55 PM
#4
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Well written post first off... however, you are asking the questions that essentially every single person considering getting an 8 asks when they come to this forum. There are a lot of answers to be found under the search button. For the moment though, I will take a stab at your questions:
1.) Reliability: How would you rate it? What are common problems? Are repairs expensive? How exactly does Mazda's 8 year/160,000 km warranty extension plan work? Does Mazda honor the warranty only on 2009s, or all model years from 2004 and up? - There are a lot of differing opinions on this one, probably as many opinions as cars, but there are a bunch of folks over 100k miles on the car and many others in the 60k+ range problem free. This is mostly attributed to taking care of the car as it requires more attention and maintenance than other types of cars. The warranty is for all RX8s regardless of year and is I believe a powertrain warranty until 60k miles and an engine warranty until 100k?
2.) Fuel economy: How bad is it really? Is premium required, or recommended? - Again a very relative question. The car doesn't get hybrid like mileage but it gets better than some other sports cars and better than many (who don't own them) insist on forums. 18 city to 22 highway is what it's rated at and seems pretty accurate in my experience. With a light foot and high gear on a long trip I've seen 25+ mph and lead foot racing from stoplight to stoplight I've seen much worse than 18. Some will argue that premium is only recommended and not required but I have never (and will never) run anything less in mine. Ymmv.
3.) Oil consumption: Mazda recommends checking it at every other fill-up. Is it really that bad? - It's not really bad, its just different than normal piston based engines. Since the engine requires oil during normal operation you will need to check it regularly and fill it up with oil regularly as well. It's not a "problem" with the engine, just the way it is designed. I go through 1-2 quarts every 3000-4000 miles at worst, sometimes much less. One of my friends 8s never ever has to be filled with oil between oil changes. *shrug*
4.) Winter driving: I realize the car has traction control, stability control, and LSD, but the car sits quite low. How well does it cope with slippery conditions? Are winter tires a necessity? How does it compare to, say, a G35 sedan (my mom's was a nightmare last winter without snow tires)? - *sigh* I know I keep saying this but... compared to what? I used to drive American muscle cars primarily, Z28 and Corvette before the RX8, so it handles wet conditions better than any muscle car I've ever had....... I don't know how much that helps you. I think it handles slick conditions very well, but Maryland doesn't get much snow and I know many winter drivers swear by winter tires.
5.) Manual transmission: I know the basics of driving a manual car, but I've never driven one. Is the RX-8 an easy car to learn on? - This one I can give an answer on! It's a pretty easy car to learn on. The bassist in my band just bought an RX8 not knowing how to drive manual and learned very quickly in the car. You will probably smoke the clutch a couple of times, but it's definitely do-able to learn and you will be glad you did.
5.) First model year gremlins: For every car out there, the first model year usually has some bugs that are eventually worked out over the car's lifetime. Are there any serious problems with 2004 model year RX-8s that I should know about? I'm seeing extremely low prices for 2004 models with relatively low kilometers on Auto Trader. - I've heard a lot more problems with 2004 year models, but in general the items are covered under warranty so if you check it out thoroughly ahead of time you can probably get any major issues resolved through warranty.
1.) Reliability: How would you rate it? What are common problems? Are repairs expensive? How exactly does Mazda's 8 year/160,000 km warranty extension plan work? Does Mazda honor the warranty only on 2009s, or all model years from 2004 and up? - There are a lot of differing opinions on this one, probably as many opinions as cars, but there are a bunch of folks over 100k miles on the car and many others in the 60k+ range problem free. This is mostly attributed to taking care of the car as it requires more attention and maintenance than other types of cars. The warranty is for all RX8s regardless of year and is I believe a powertrain warranty until 60k miles and an engine warranty until 100k?
2.) Fuel economy: How bad is it really? Is premium required, or recommended? - Again a very relative question. The car doesn't get hybrid like mileage but it gets better than some other sports cars and better than many (who don't own them) insist on forums. 18 city to 22 highway is what it's rated at and seems pretty accurate in my experience. With a light foot and high gear on a long trip I've seen 25+ mph and lead foot racing from stoplight to stoplight I've seen much worse than 18.
Some will argue that premium is only recommended and not required but I have never (and will never) run anything less in mine. Ymmv.3.) Oil consumption: Mazda recommends checking it at every other fill-up. Is it really that bad? - It's not really bad, its just different than normal piston based engines. Since the engine requires oil during normal operation you will need to check it regularly and fill it up with oil regularly as well. It's not a "problem" with the engine, just the way it is designed. I go through 1-2 quarts every 3000-4000 miles at worst, sometimes much less. One of my friends 8s never ever has to be filled with oil between oil changes. *shrug*
4.) Winter driving: I realize the car has traction control, stability control, and LSD, but the car sits quite low. How well does it cope with slippery conditions? Are winter tires a necessity? How does it compare to, say, a G35 sedan (my mom's was a nightmare last winter without snow tires)? - *sigh* I know I keep saying this but... compared to what? I used to drive American muscle cars primarily, Z28 and Corvette before the RX8, so it handles wet conditions better than any muscle car I've ever had....... I don't know how much that helps you. I think it handles slick conditions very well, but Maryland doesn't get much snow and I know many winter drivers swear by winter tires.
5.) Manual transmission: I know the basics of driving a manual car, but I've never driven one. Is the RX-8 an easy car to learn on? - This one I can give an answer on! It's a pretty easy car to learn on. The bassist in my band just bought an RX8 not knowing how to drive manual and learned very quickly in the car. You will probably smoke the clutch a couple of times, but it's definitely do-able to learn and you will be glad you did.
5.) First model year gremlins: For every car out there, the first model year usually has some bugs that are eventually worked out over the car's lifetime. Are there any serious problems with 2004 model year RX-8s that I should know about? I'm seeing extremely low prices for 2004 models with relatively low kilometers on Auto Trader. - I've heard a lot more problems with 2004 year models, but in general the items are covered under warranty so if you check it out thoroughly ahead of time you can probably get any major issues resolved through warranty.
11-16-2008, 10:28 PM
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What my parents did was they put it under my dad's and put me as secondary driver. Instead of it being 2,500$/year, it went down to 1,200$/year. I'd suggest considering doing that.
11-17-2008, 12:49 AM
#8
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Get a later model, I have an 04 and I have been having issues with it. A 05 or later have less issues, and make sure all recalls have been done on the car and make sure you check under the hood before you buy, look at the battery connectors and if they are corroded ask for a new battery.
11-17-2008, 03:26 AM
#11
1.) Reliability: How would you rate it? What are common problems? Are repairs expensive? How exactly does Mazda's 8 year/160,000 km warranty extension plan work? Does Mazda honor the warranty only on 2009s, or all model years from 2004 and up?
2.) Fuel economy: How bad is it really? Is premium required, or recommended?
3.) Oil consumption: Mazda recommends checking it at every other fill-up. Is it really that bad?
4.) Winter driving: I realize the car has traction control, stability control, and LSD, but the car sits quite low. How well does it cope with slippery conditions? Are winter tires a necessity? How does it compare to, say, a G35 sedan (my mom's was a nightmare last winter without snow tires)?
5.) Manual transmission: I know the basics of driving a manual car, but I've never driven one. Is the RX-8 an easy car to learn on?
6.) First model year gremlins: For every car out there, the first model year usually has some bugs that are eventually worked out over the car's lifetime. Are there any serious problems with 2004 model year RX-8s that I should know about? I'm seeing extremely low prices for 2004 models with relatively low kilometers on Auto Trader.
2.) Fuel economy: How bad is it really? Is premium required, or recommended?
3.) Oil consumption: Mazda recommends checking it at every other fill-up. Is it really that bad?
4.) Winter driving: I realize the car has traction control, stability control, and LSD, but the car sits quite low. How well does it cope with slippery conditions? Are winter tires a necessity? How does it compare to, say, a G35 sedan (my mom's was a nightmare last winter without snow tires)?
5.) Manual transmission: I know the basics of driving a manual car, but I've never driven one. Is the RX-8 an easy car to learn on?
6.) First model year gremlins: For every car out there, the first model year usually has some bugs that are eventually worked out over the car's lifetime. Are there any serious problems with 2004 model year RX-8s that I should know about? I'm seeing extremely low prices for 2004 models with relatively low kilometers on Auto Trader.
And on number 4. why the HELL would anyone drive anywhere it's a chance of snow without winter tires? America is weird
5. It has a noisy gearbox compared to normal cars, but it's a smooth shifter, should be easy to drive. It's harder to clutch than a VW Jetta, obviously, but not bad.
On the other stuff, drive a manual 8, you won't give a toss. It's worth everything
Checking the oil every other fill up is not because it uses much oil, it's because it's IMPORTANT, so if you forget it twice, at least you won't forget it much more if you stay to every other fillup.
11-17-2008, 06:33 AM
#12
Drop it into 3rd
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Hello all,
1.) Reliability: How would you rate it? What are common problems? Are repairs expensive? How exactly does Mazda's 8 year/160,000 km warranty extension plan work? Does Mazda honor the warranty only on 2009s, or all model years from 2004 and up?
IMHO the reliability thing is a lottery, 90% of people get cars that wear and tear as expected, about 10% have consistent problems.
2.) Fuel economy: How bad is it really? Is premium required, or recommended?
Don't expect more than 15 City, 25 Hwy. It will run on lower grade gas but it's bad for it because this engine has high compression and needs fuel that won't detonate the engine from high compression.
3.) Oil consumption: Mazda recommends checking it at every other fill-up. Is it really that bad?
CHECK it, yes. Refill it every other time? Probably not. I put in a quart of oil every time I get half way down the dipstick.
4.) Winter driving: I realize the car has traction control, stability control, and LSD, but the car sits quite low. How well does it cope with slippery conditions? Are winter tires a necessity? How does it compare to, say, a G35 sedan (my mom's was a nightmare last winter without snow tires)?
You will need snow tires, this car is RWD, which means its horrible in snow.
5.) Manual transmission: I know the basics of driving a manual car, but I've never driven one. Is the RX-8 an easy car to learn on?
I would actually say no to this - I recently tried to teach my friend stick on this car, it doesn't help that it's a very responsive engine and revs to 4k with just the touch of a feather. I would say learn manual on something less touchy.
6.) First model year gremlins: For every car out there, the first model year usually has some bugs that are eventually worked out over the car's lifetime. Are there any serious problems with 2004 model year RX-8s that I should know about? I'm seeing extremely low prices for 2004 models with relatively low kilometers on Auto Trader.
I would get them checked out by a mechanic who knows the car well. If you can't find a specialized rotary mechanic, check the coils, plugs, cat converter, and wires. Get a compression test. Don't buy it if compression is lower than 7.
Examples:
a.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...0&adid=7271625
b.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...0&adid=7382734
c.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...5&adid=7383038
Should I be cautious?
Thanks in advance guys.
1.) Reliability: How would you rate it? What are common problems? Are repairs expensive? How exactly does Mazda's 8 year/160,000 km warranty extension plan work? Does Mazda honor the warranty only on 2009s, or all model years from 2004 and up?
IMHO the reliability thing is a lottery, 90% of people get cars that wear and tear as expected, about 10% have consistent problems.
2.) Fuel economy: How bad is it really? Is premium required, or recommended?
Don't expect more than 15 City, 25 Hwy. It will run on lower grade gas but it's bad for it because this engine has high compression and needs fuel that won't detonate the engine from high compression.
3.) Oil consumption: Mazda recommends checking it at every other fill-up. Is it really that bad?
CHECK it, yes. Refill it every other time? Probably not. I put in a quart of oil every time I get half way down the dipstick.
4.) Winter driving: I realize the car has traction control, stability control, and LSD, but the car sits quite low. How well does it cope with slippery conditions? Are winter tires a necessity? How does it compare to, say, a G35 sedan (my mom's was a nightmare last winter without snow tires)?
You will need snow tires, this car is RWD, which means its horrible in snow.
5.) Manual transmission: I know the basics of driving a manual car, but I've never driven one. Is the RX-8 an easy car to learn on?
I would actually say no to this - I recently tried to teach my friend stick on this car, it doesn't help that it's a very responsive engine and revs to 4k with just the touch of a feather. I would say learn manual on something less touchy.
6.) First model year gremlins: For every car out there, the first model year usually has some bugs that are eventually worked out over the car's lifetime. Are there any serious problems with 2004 model year RX-8s that I should know about? I'm seeing extremely low prices for 2004 models with relatively low kilometers on Auto Trader.
I would get them checked out by a mechanic who knows the car well. If you can't find a specialized rotary mechanic, check the coils, plugs, cat converter, and wires. Get a compression test. Don't buy it if compression is lower than 7.
Examples:
a.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...0&adid=7271625
b.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...0&adid=7382734
c.) http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/detai...5&adid=7383038
Should I be cautious?
Thanks in advance guys.
11-17-2008, 07:05 AM
#13
Vtak just kicked in yo!!
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I have an 04 and love it. Im one of the younger owners here and this was technically my first sports car (I owned an 03 350Z for 2 weeks and returned it 
).
Dont listen to "dont buy an 04 or 05", as a young owner, I feel like the 04's/05's are ideal, just be prepared for high maintenance. Mine is always in the shop, but the warranty has taken care of most of it. If you take care of these cars they will take care of you.
Most of RX8s engine failures are due to carbon-lock rather than actual engine wear to the apex seals, etc. So these cars REQUIRE regular redlining to burn up carbon deposits. Im at 72K with mine and its been quite a trip. The only real major problem I had was I needed a new trans at 30K miles, that was really my only dissappointment in the car.
Whichever you choose, make sure you take a thourough test drive in it. Check for gear grinding, burning oil smells, etc. This is very important, I bought my car from an auction with 19,000 miles and DID NOT test drive it and it had a helluva of problems (that were taken care of under warranty, just a pain in the *** though).
Check to make sure all TSBs and recalls were performed on whichever you choose.
).Dont listen to "dont buy an 04 or 05", as a young owner, I feel like the 04's/05's are ideal, just be prepared for high maintenance. Mine is always in the shop, but the warranty has taken care of most of it. If you take care of these cars they will take care of you.
Most of RX8s engine failures are due to carbon-lock rather than actual engine wear to the apex seals, etc. So these cars REQUIRE regular redlining to burn up carbon deposits. Im at 72K with mine and its been quite a trip. The only real major problem I had was I needed a new trans at 30K miles, that was really my only dissappointment in the car.
Whichever you choose, make sure you take a thourough test drive in it. Check for gear grinding, burning oil smells, etc. This is very important, I bought my car from an auction with 19,000 miles and DID NOT test drive it and it had a helluva of problems (that were taken care of under warranty, just a pain in the *** though).
Check to make sure all TSBs and recalls were performed on whichever you choose.
11-17-2008, 07:45 PM
#16
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Damn, I just can't get past his writing skills! Not too bad! All is not lost.
Personally...........I'd stay away from an 04, but that's just me. Oh...and get a manual!
All is not lost.Personally...........I'd stay away from an 04, but that's just me. Oh...and get a manual!
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