Airbag Stories
11-14-2005, 12:00 PM
#1
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Airbag Stories
Before I bought my RX-8 I knew I would have my 2-year-old and 8-year-old in the back and my 10-year-old in the front. I'm always mindful of 'fit' issues with airbags. They're not magic so like everything else they must be used correctly. I searched here and found a couple of threads of questions, but no detailed first-hand accounts of the airbags. Worse than that, I found various bits of misinformation (can you believe some people don't even know what their owner's manual says?)
So, I'd like to make a thread of first-hand accounts. Not full accident stories, not second-hand accounts, not rumors or myths about airbags. If you actually were in an RX-8 when an airbag deployed tell us about it (or ask your airbag questions here).
Here is my story:
The set-up - deer darts in front of my car at 55mph.
The impact - hit the 100+lbs doe perfectly centered head-on.
Vehicle Occupants - only me, the driver.
The deployment - both front airbags deployed, no side or side curtains. (NOTE: the passenger front airbag *did* deploy even though there was no passenger, even though the passenger seatbelt was not buckled - just like is says in the owner's manual)
I'm 5'11" so I sit reasonably far back from the wheel, but closer than some because I like to get the clutch all the way down without twisting in the seat and stretching for it).
Here's the most unusual thing I found - the airbag only hit my chest and not all that hard. The airbag didn't even graze my chin, I think it is somewhat smaller than I imagined. I certainly did not do the textbook face-plant that we see in the NHTSA slow-motion videos. The airbag also did not fling my arms off the steering wheel (further evidence of smaller diameter and an additional benefit). I was able to see, steer and brake before, during and after the deployment. This afternoon I will try to find some data on driver's airbag diameters for RX-8s and other vehicles. Also, there was no 'cloud' in the car immediately. There was smoke later, but not right away and no evidence of any talc or powder which might have been used to prevent the airbag from sticking to itself.
The seat-belt/airbag cooperation was excellent. The seat-belt fired it's one-time emergency-hold latch so I was tightly held in the perfect position to meet the airbag, but I did not get a hip-bruise from the buckle or a chest abbrasion from the shoulder-belt sliding.
Personal injury - none. I didn't have a mark or dent on my person. I didn't lose control of the car or get my marbles rattled. My back muscles began to tighten up a couple of hours later, but after consulting with my phyisician by phone we agreed a couple of ibuprofin and a hot bath were all that was warrented. The doc said I'd feel worst on the 3rd day, but honestly I never had even a twinge after the hot bath. I may go see this particularly cute, I mean, talented, I mean competent massage therapist this week, at least as consolation for the loss of the car. My chest never hurt. Mostly I think I remembered the feeling of something soft pushing my chest rather than still feeling any sensation from it.
Aftermath - the vehicle was still driveable so after talking to the sheriff I drove it (extra-carefully) the final 3 miles home with my wife following in her van. The driver's seatbelt was useless because of the emergency mechanism that had fired. It just hung limply at full extension and would not retract. The trapdoor on the top of the steering wheel had swung back so hard it got lodged under the top of the steering wheel which blocked the view of my gauges, but after I pried it back and flipped it down it and the airbag didn't seriously interfere with steering. The passenger front airbag didn't appear to do any secondary damage to the dashboard during deployment - it just popped out the trapdoor. There was no fire, but their was a strong evil, pungent smell from the airbag propellent that lingered in the car and white smoke pouring through the air vents for several minutes after the crash. I did remove my laptop and other valuables just in case something started a fire.
Compare/Contrast - 8 years ago I was run off the road in a rainstorm and hit a tree at 45mph in a 1995 Pontiac Sunfire. That was a more vicious impact and the airbag hit my face. It gave me a fat lip and a bloody nose in addition to a really sore bruise on my right hip from the seatbelt buckle and a bright red abbrasion in the center of my chest where the shoulder belt had slid. I also very clearly lost what I estimate to be 3 seconds of time. Then and now I can play the memory backward and forward and I'm sure there's ~3 seconds missing. I saw the approach to the tree, remember thinking, "aaawwww s*&$", then a huge BANG, then the world faded in from black with me sitting upright, eyes open. It was like coming out from under anesthesia when I had my wisdom teeth removed, but faster and in the Sunfire I was instantly alert once I had my marbles back. My first thought as the world faded in was that the car was on fire because there was a thick white cloud. After a second I realized it was some powder like white baby powder which had been packed in with the airbag. The next second I realized my face really hurt like I had been hit hard with something hard, but no real harm done.
So, there's my stories. I'd really like to hear stories of the side and side-curtain airbags. I investigated the position and shape of the side-curtain airbags because I wanted to be sure they would not strike a toddler-seat installed in the back seat when they inflated. According to pictures I've seen (both crash and Mazda pictures) there is no interference, but I've never heard a detailed first-hand account of side airbag deployments.
So, I'd like to make a thread of first-hand accounts. Not full accident stories, not second-hand accounts, not rumors or myths about airbags. If you actually were in an RX-8 when an airbag deployed tell us about it (or ask your airbag questions here).
Here is my story:
The set-up - deer darts in front of my car at 55mph.
The impact - hit the 100+lbs doe perfectly centered head-on.
Vehicle Occupants - only me, the driver.
The deployment - both front airbags deployed, no side or side curtains. (NOTE: the passenger front airbag *did* deploy even though there was no passenger, even though the passenger seatbelt was not buckled - just like is says in the owner's manual)
I'm 5'11" so I sit reasonably far back from the wheel, but closer than some because I like to get the clutch all the way down without twisting in the seat and stretching for it).
Here's the most unusual thing I found - the airbag only hit my chest and not all that hard. The airbag didn't even graze my chin, I think it is somewhat smaller than I imagined. I certainly did not do the textbook face-plant that we see in the NHTSA slow-motion videos. The airbag also did not fling my arms off the steering wheel (further evidence of smaller diameter and an additional benefit). I was able to see, steer and brake before, during and after the deployment. This afternoon I will try to find some data on driver's airbag diameters for RX-8s and other vehicles. Also, there was no 'cloud' in the car immediately. There was smoke later, but not right away and no evidence of any talc or powder which might have been used to prevent the airbag from sticking to itself.
The seat-belt/airbag cooperation was excellent. The seat-belt fired it's one-time emergency-hold latch so I was tightly held in the perfect position to meet the airbag, but I did not get a hip-bruise from the buckle or a chest abbrasion from the shoulder-belt sliding.
Personal injury - none. I didn't have a mark or dent on my person. I didn't lose control of the car or get my marbles rattled. My back muscles began to tighten up a couple of hours later, but after consulting with my phyisician by phone we agreed a couple of ibuprofin and a hot bath were all that was warrented. The doc said I'd feel worst on the 3rd day, but honestly I never had even a twinge after the hot bath. I may go see this particularly cute, I mean, talented, I mean competent massage therapist this week, at least as consolation for the loss of the car. My chest never hurt. Mostly I think I remembered the feeling of something soft pushing my chest rather than still feeling any sensation from it.
Aftermath - the vehicle was still driveable so after talking to the sheriff I drove it (extra-carefully) the final 3 miles home with my wife following in her van. The driver's seatbelt was useless because of the emergency mechanism that had fired. It just hung limply at full extension and would not retract. The trapdoor on the top of the steering wheel had swung back so hard it got lodged under the top of the steering wheel which blocked the view of my gauges, but after I pried it back and flipped it down it and the airbag didn't seriously interfere with steering. The passenger front airbag didn't appear to do any secondary damage to the dashboard during deployment - it just popped out the trapdoor. There was no fire, but their was a strong evil, pungent smell from the airbag propellent that lingered in the car and white smoke pouring through the air vents for several minutes after the crash. I did remove my laptop and other valuables just in case something started a fire.
Compare/Contrast - 8 years ago I was run off the road in a rainstorm and hit a tree at 45mph in a 1995 Pontiac Sunfire. That was a more vicious impact and the airbag hit my face. It gave me a fat lip and a bloody nose in addition to a really sore bruise on my right hip from the seatbelt buckle and a bright red abbrasion in the center of my chest where the shoulder belt had slid. I also very clearly lost what I estimate to be 3 seconds of time. Then and now I can play the memory backward and forward and I'm sure there's ~3 seconds missing. I saw the approach to the tree, remember thinking, "aaawwww s*&$", then a huge BANG, then the world faded in from black with me sitting upright, eyes open. It was like coming out from under anesthesia when I had my wisdom teeth removed, but faster and in the Sunfire I was instantly alert once I had my marbles back. My first thought as the world faded in was that the car was on fire because there was a thick white cloud. After a second I realized it was some powder like white baby powder which had been packed in with the airbag. The next second I realized my face really hurt like I had been hit hard with something hard, but no real harm done.
So, there's my stories. I'd really like to hear stories of the side and side-curtain airbags. I investigated the position and shape of the side-curtain airbags because I wanted to be sure they would not strike a toddler-seat installed in the back seat when they inflated. According to pictures I've seen (both crash and Mazda pictures) there is no interference, but I've never heard a detailed first-hand account of side airbag deployments.
11-14-2005, 12:55 PM
#2
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Sorry to hear about both thoes events but glad your still here to share it.
My wife has an airbag story (it messed up her neck) but she is just 5 feet tall and looked to the side (she worried about her grandma) when it smacked into her. Her neck has never been the same.
Modern air bags are ALOT better than the early versions.
My wife has an airbag story (it messed up her neck) but she is just 5 feet tall and looked to the side (she worried about her grandma) when it smacked into her. Her neck has never been the same.
Modern air bags are ALOT better than the early versions.
11-14-2005, 02:32 PM
#3
Oil Injection
The air bags are supposed to have differnt lvls/forces of deployment, correct?
Maby because you hit an object and kept driving, it set everything off at its lowest lvl.
Hitting a 100lb deer and a brick wall, both at 55 mph would be very differnt forces. I think that played a part in it.
The one time I was in a crash that was more than a small 'fender-bender' or a ding in a door (all under 10mph) would be when I was riding in a friends car, it didnt have any airbags or anything, so it was just our seat belts, we were faily young, 16-17 so we bounced back pretty quick, couple of scrapes and bruises...so I have no experience with airbags.
Maby because you hit an object and kept driving, it set everything off at its lowest lvl.
Hitting a 100lb deer and a brick wall, both at 55 mph would be very differnt forces. I think that played a part in it.
The one time I was in a crash that was more than a small 'fender-bender' or a ding in a door (all under 10mph) would be when I was riding in a friends car, it didnt have any airbags or anything, so it was just our seat belts, we were faily young, 16-17 so we bounced back pretty quick, couple of scrapes and bruises...so I have no experience with airbags.
11-14-2005, 02:48 PM
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This doesn't fit your criteria, but I figured I'd throw it in anyway. Hit a stopped car from behind at about 65 mph in a 96 Miata. Airbag shattered my glasses and knocked my left arm through the window and gave me a concussion. I walked away a bit dizzy with a scratch on my arm.
And it almost certainly saved my life. I'll never forget how well that little car survived that crash.
Some people will argue that airbags do more harm than good. I tend to disagree if we are talking about adults.
And it almost certainly saved my life. I'll never forget how well that little car survived that crash.
Some people will argue that airbags do more harm than good. I tend to disagree if we are talking about adults.
Last edited by tuj; 11-14-2005 at 02:50 PM.
11-15-2005, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by 8 Maniac
forget to brake?... I think you have to clarify about this story...
I didn't say it wasn't my fault; it was.
11-15-2005, 09:18 AM
#8
Oil Injection
Originally Posted by alnielsen
I have feared the force of the airbag deployment. Heard storys of peoples thumbs being broke en in an accident due to the airbag. I am now trying to unlearn 35 yrs of habit and keep my thumbs on the outer side of the steering wheel.
id take broken thumbs over a broken neck, face, head, ect ect ect....any day
11-15-2005, 10:12 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by KYLiquid
id take broken thumbs over a broken neck, face, head, ect ect ect....any day
11-15-2005, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by alnielsen
I have feared the force of the airbag deployment. Heard storys of peoples thumbs being broke en in an accident due to the airbag. I am now trying to unlearn 35 yrs of habit and keep my thumbs on the outer side of the steering wheel.
However, having met two driver's airbags I speak from experience when I say I fear the steering column penetrating my chest much more than I fear broken thumbs, a fat lip or even a vicious scar on my face (though none of those happened in my cases).
Anyone have a detailed account of RX-8 side or side-curtain airbags?
11-21-2005, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by KYLiquid
The air bags are supposed to have differnt lvls/forces of deployment, correct?
Maby because you hit an object and kept driving, it set everything off at its lowest lvl.
Hitting a 100lb deer and a brick wall, both at 55 mph would be very differnt forces. I think that played a part in it.
Maby because you hit an object and kept driving, it set everything off at its lowest lvl.
Hitting a 100lb deer and a brick wall, both at 55 mph would be very differnt forces. I think that played a part in it.
Not to get all geeky about it, but according to Newton, "net force is proportional to mass when accelleration is constant." Say both crashes were ~55mph. In one case we have a 3,000lb car striking an immovable object. In another case we have a 3,000lb car striking a 100lb stationary, but quite movable object. Rough engineering estimate - seems like 1/30th the impact. Maybe I'll get ambitious and try to calculate how many g's the driver would suffer in those two cases assuming no mitigration from the crush zones.
One other footnote to my RX-8 airbag story. The propellant has a really evil, acrid smell which was still really strong on Monday following a Friday crash. I asked the dealer doing the repairs about cleansing the interior of the smell and they said after a car gets such, *ahem*, extensive body work at their shop they always perform a 'full detailing' as the final step. That would include a thorough interior cleaning and given my specific complaint about the propellant odor they'd be sure to hit it with some new car smell.
If anyone sends a car to be repaired after an airbag deployment I'd recommend making a special request for interior cleansing for the smell alone. That's something the body shop and insurance adjuster are not likely to think of on their own.
11-21-2005, 12:57 PM
#12
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There aren't going to be too many 1st person stories about side or side-curtain airbags, I'd wager. Firstly, it's an RX-8 - you want to be driving!
Secondly, front and rear impacts are most common in car collisions. Thirdly, I'd worry most if the occupants were resting against the door's window with sidebags. The few reported cases of injury in any make come from people sleeping on the door/window and the bags going off. Not sure about fatality from the bag itself, but injuries have been reported.
With side bags, the explosive force is much smaller than with frontbags - the bag doesn't need to inflate as far, as fast, in comparison to a frontal impact. With side impacts, it is the intrustion into the passenger compartment that is the big problem, and bags won't protect against that much.
Secondly, front and rear impacts are most common in car collisions. Thirdly, I'd worry most if the occupants were resting against the door's window with sidebags. The few reported cases of injury in any make come from people sleeping on the door/window and the bags going off. Not sure about fatality from the bag itself, but injuries have been reported.
With side bags, the explosive force is much smaller than with frontbags - the bag doesn't need to inflate as far, as fast, in comparison to a frontal impact. With side impacts, it is the intrustion into the passenger compartment that is the big problem, and bags won't protect against that much.
01-02-2006, 10:30 PM
#13
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Found this thread in a search; just got inquisitive about this topic - no reason really. Nice description of your two events, and glad you came out of them in good shape btw. Any other real stories to share anyone?BUMP for a good topic
01-03-2006, 12:20 PM
#14
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Thanks for the bump Racer X-8. Actually, there have been two recent RX-8 side-impacts reported in other threads. I'd really like to see details about those airbags. YT1300's post is misleading - it seems to imply there are not side or side-curtain airbags for the driver, but we all know that's not true. Some RX-8 drivers have met those bags (just as I have met the steering-wheel bag).
However, YT1300 also brings up people sleeping against the door/window. That is one of the reasons I started this thread - to increase awareness of the consequences of having such airbag devices in the car. From the very first day I owned it I have been vigilent against the kids sleeping against the doors and it's something I try to keep in mind to mention to adult passengers too.
The airbag system was almost a deal-breaker with my RX-8 because the front passenger airbag could not be disabled when my 10-year-old rode up front and I couldn't find information about the side-curtain airbags to assure myself the toddler-seat would be safe in the back seat. Hopefully others who want to know details about their airbags will find this in a search too and find it helpful.
One more footnote to my RX-8 airbag story. I asked the dealer about decoding the 'black-box' from the car to see if they could confirm the airbag system deliberately deployed with reduced force because it detected a relatively small impact. The service manager at Vincent Mazda in Rochester, NY claimed they did not have the equipment or software to make such a query. He claimed he had heard of it being done. In fact, he had heard of it being done in Rochester to confirm the speed of a vehicle for a court case (driver struck and killed two pedestrians - vehicle's speed was key to determining level of negligence or something of that nature). Anyway, I'll never get confirmation of the deployment force, but I'd sure bet it wasn't the full monty.
So, where're our side impact stories?
However, YT1300 also brings up people sleeping against the door/window. That is one of the reasons I started this thread - to increase awareness of the consequences of having such airbag devices in the car. From the very first day I owned it I have been vigilent against the kids sleeping against the doors and it's something I try to keep in mind to mention to adult passengers too.
The airbag system was almost a deal-breaker with my RX-8 because the front passenger airbag could not be disabled when my 10-year-old rode up front and I couldn't find information about the side-curtain airbags to assure myself the toddler-seat would be safe in the back seat. Hopefully others who want to know details about their airbags will find this in a search too and find it helpful.
One more footnote to my RX-8 airbag story. I asked the dealer about decoding the 'black-box' from the car to see if they could confirm the airbag system deliberately deployed with reduced force because it detected a relatively small impact. The service manager at Vincent Mazda in Rochester, NY claimed they did not have the equipment or software to make such a query. He claimed he had heard of it being done. In fact, he had heard of it being done in Rochester to confirm the speed of a vehicle for a court case (driver struck and killed two pedestrians - vehicle's speed was key to determining level of negligence or something of that nature). Anyway, I'll never get confirmation of the deployment force, but I'd sure bet it wasn't the full monty.
So, where're our side impact stories?
07-06-2006, 10:49 AM
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Not in an rx-8, but I have seen the seat-torso airbag deploy in my friends protege. Actually, saying I saw it deploy is misleading, it was out of my field of vision since it was on her side. I was in the passenger seat, and my friend was driving. We got hit on the drivers side rear door by a car who claimed she didnt see the light was red. The lady that hit us was only going about 35mph, as were we, so it wasnt too bad. My side didnt go off, but hers did. She couldnt really recall if she hit it or not, but neither of us had bruises, just sore necks from the almost full 360 the car did. We were also both wearing seat belts, so im sure that helped. As for would I think it would have been unsafe for a child in a carseat, no, the bag was only about 3-4 inches thick, I dont think it would have touched it. But i would imagine if the car had been going faster, it could have pushed the door in far enough that it could have hit it. But I dont think thats an issue with the 8.
On another airbag side note, I have been in one crash where i was driving, only going about 20mph, and hit a car. The airbag went off, but i was sitting far enough back that I didnt hit it. I just thought it was crazy that it deployed so quickly that i could see it happen even before i could blink. There was also the white cloud of spoke immediately, and the sulfurish smell thats produced from the chemical recation thats used to deploy the airbag. the passenger side airbag also shatter my widshield.
On another airbag side note, I have been in one crash where i was driving, only going about 20mph, and hit a car. The airbag went off, but i was sitting far enough back that I didnt hit it. I just thought it was crazy that it deployed so quickly that i could see it happen even before i could blink. There was also the white cloud of spoke immediately, and the sulfurish smell thats produced from the chemical recation thats used to deploy the airbag. the passenger side airbag also shatter my widshield.
07-06-2006, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Hightshoe
.... the passenger side airbag also shatter my widshield.
07-06-2006, 01:22 PM
#18
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You know I seen a SUV get hit almost head-on well on a turn lane and no airbag went off? I was like wow! Now keep in mind the speed limit is 50 but everyone gos 60+mph however the other car went into a spin ends up the facing the oppiset way of traffic with more damage and airbags deployed.
07-06-2006, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Racer X-8
Was that from a relatively hard dashboard cover piece being propelled in that direction?
07-06-2006, 03:59 PM
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We have a guy in our club who was in a hit-from-both-sides accident where both sets of side airbags went off. He said he was shaken a little, but it was kinda like hitting a big pillow.
Another friend was in a head-on while wearing glasses. He didn't even get a bruise on his nose, but his wrists had mild rug-burn type scrapes from the deployment.
I did some research a couple years ago after hearing that air bags were "dangerous for children." Bunk. The only serious injuries to children I read about were ones where the child wasn't wearing a seatbelt and submarined under the airbag.
Another friend was in a head-on while wearing glasses. He didn't even get a bruise on his nose, but his wrists had mild rug-burn type scrapes from the deployment.
I did some research a couple years ago after hearing that air bags were "dangerous for children." Bunk. The only serious injuries to children I read about were ones where the child wasn't wearing a seatbelt and submarined under the airbag.
07-06-2006, 04:18 PM
#21
The driver airbag is -required- to not throw your hands off the wheel. That is if you're holding the wheel correctly.
I had my left palm resting on the center of the wheel when mine deployed(not in my 8). Gave me quite a bruise and my hand swelled up looking like a catchers mit. If I'd been in my 8 I wouldn't have hit the car in front of me, rotten BMW's and their good brakes. I told my wife I'm never driving anything that can't stop on a dime again!
I had my left palm resting on the center of the wheel when mine deployed(not in my 8). Gave me quite a bruise and my hand swelled up looking like a catchers mit. If I'd been in my 8 I wouldn't have hit the car in front of me, rotten BMW's and their good brakes. I told my wife I'm never driving anything that can't stop on a dime again!
07-07-2006, 02:51 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by Paul_in_DC
I did some research a couple years ago after hearing that air bags were "dangerous for children." Bunk. The only serious injuries to children I read about were ones where the child wasn't wearing a seatbelt and submarined under the airbag.
Given that - cars should have adjustable pedals so you can arrange the proper distance to sit from the airbag by moving the seat, then adjust the pedals so they're suitable to better protect drivers of different sizes.
Getting back to kids according the NHTSA and other US government websites I read there has never been a death caused by an airbag when a child was properly seated and seat-belted. I couldn't find any good data on injuries.
All of the terrible, gruesome deaths I read about were due to some idiot adult mounting an infant seat up against an airbag. There should be a strict condemnation and penalty for such a driver, but instead there's usualy public outcry against the car manufacturer. *sigh*
07-07-2006, 03:55 PM
#23
Nothing in the rx8 but I totalled a brand new plymouth sundance that was my sisters 3 days after she bought it. Some idiot coming out of disney pulled right out in front of me on the highway. The airbag gave me rugburn on my wrists, fogged the whole car up burned my throat pretty badly. I never hit it with anything besides my hands. My cousin in the passenger seat was cut from the shoulder to his waist by the seatbelt. I had a 1/2 second to brace and see the car, he never got a chance to sit up.
07-07-2006, 04:22 PM
#24
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Originally Posted by Aseras
Nothing in the rx8 but I totalled a brand new plymouth sundance that was my sisters 3 days after she bought it. Some idiot coming out of disney pulled right out in front of me on the highway. The airbag gave me rugburn on my wrists, fogged the whole car up burned my throat pretty badly. I never hit it with anything besides my hands. My cousin in the passenger seat was cut from the shoulder to his waist by the seatbelt. I had a 1/2 second to brace and see the car, he never got a chance to sit up.
What year sundance?
How were you holding the steering wheel? Did you get a friction burn or chemical burn on your wrists (sounds like you mean friction)?
Was the fog in the car white? Was it smoke, powder or both? Did it smell like burning carpets?
How was your cousin cut? What was his seat position? Did he have an airbag or was that sundance "driver-side-only"?
The time my Pontiac Sunfire hit a tree at 50mph I braced pretty good, but still smacked my face and chest onto the airbag quite hard. The RX-8 airbag only tapped my chest, but it did hit me nonetheless.
I think the Sunfire popped my arms out and away from the steering wheel, but I never noticed - certainly no marks on arms, wrists or hands. I'm pretty certain the RX-8 bag wasn't big enough to do that.
