Kylet1991

Hey everyone here iS my problem I'm getting a 04 rx8 for 800 bucks and the water seal is blown its leaking coolant into the motor and burning it out the exhaust with a lot of wight smoke it starts up and runs idles fine and revs good now I conceder myself a good DIY mechanic I have very good basic skills I have rebuilt motors and trans before but I have also worked on my 94 rx7 that I had and I know they are no joke so before I fully dive head first in to this is this going to be worth it for me to buy and fix or it's it going to be a big waste please get back to me with ur input ASAP I will be very greatly appreciate it thanks

paimon.soror

iTrader: (15)

not sure what you are asking here...

what exactly are you asking that is going to be a big waste, buying the jacket seals and doing the job yourself vs taking it to a shop?

By "worked on my 94rx7" do you mean you actually pulled the engine and dismantled it?

Kylet1991

Ok so what I'm asking is should I buy the car and spend the money to get it fixed at a shop or should I do it my self basically how hard is going to be to do and by worked on my 94 I rebuilt the turbo and a few other things but I didn't tare the motor down

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

We have no way of knowing what you are capable of or not. Rebuilding the engine is complicated and whether or not you can do it depends on many things.

kevinande

You can't "fix it", the motor needs to be rebuilt. If you are capable of that, then go for it. If not you will be paying someone to do the job. If that does not interest you then I recommend you pass on this deal.

Kylet1991

Ok well I am fully confidante in my skills to rebuild the motor there has never been a motor that I couldn't pull apart and put back together but the thing is I think I'm going to sell it and with my work I don't know how long it would take for me to fix but what I really want to know is if I pay to have it fixed will I be able to make money on it

geoffbarne

Please don't buy an rx8 simply to turn a profit, PLEASE.

Wingznut

iTrader: (1)

Since there's no way of knowing how much damage has been done to the engine until you tear it down, presume the worst. It's very possible that the engine is not rebuildable. Find out how much it would cost to have it replaced and start from there.

And then consider that you haven't actually driven it, so there's no way of predicting if there are other issues such as transmission, suspension, etc.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

That's why rotary has such shitty name, there were simply too many of these "omg I'm so 1337 I can rebuild it for profit"

at the end of the day it's a shitty build but it's not the fault of the builder, it's the car.

Kylet1991

Ok guys so I have found someone to rebuild the motor I have ordered the master rebuild kit for 1500 and the shop is going to charge me 2200 for the job and I am now thinking of keeping the car but it is lacking in power for my taste what is the best way for me to increase power

xexok

So did they actually get into the motor and find out what can be salvaged, if anything? If not then you are either going to get a shitty rebuild or the price is going to only go up from there.

nycgps

iTrader: (1)

like i said, two negatives will not always give u a positive.

shitty builder plus a 1337 mech, w00t!

R80MAV

How about you study one of the various rx8 engine diy threads and determine for yourself whether you're capable.

il get you started; DIY RX8 Engine Rebuild (pic heavy))

j9fd3s

you do know that list price on a Mazda rebuilt engine is $2001, right?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

Have you seen the inside of many mazda remans? They're literally a notch above a used junkyard engine in some cases. There is no rhyme or reason to what parts they use in them.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

So what about this random shop was special enough to justify you paying (if I am understanding right) approximately twice what I rebuild the same engine for?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

If it still starts and runs then it should be in fine condition for a rebuild. In fact it's likely it needs nothing except the basic rebuild seal set, although the rotor housings may need to be looked at closely if they have more than 80k miles.

It's the ones that develop a bad seal/coolant burning issue and then the owner shuts them down and lets them sit for 4 months while 'deciding what to do" only to find that all the coolant inside the chambers has rusted and pitted the parts, that you have to worry about being boat anchors and not rebuildable.

j9fd3s

all the ones i've seen are new rotor housings....

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

A few of the ones I have seen had new housings, many had used housings. One had a new housing combined with a heavily worn used one that probably had 120k on it.

I'm currently going through an FD with a reman that had 30k on it. It was PROPER fucked from top to bottom. The owner is a late 60's man who does not drive the car hard, and he paid the dealership to do the remove/install. The car is/was bone stock so modifications or overboost are not to blame. The engine has two junk rotor housings (one of which has a chunk of missing chrome 30mm long and 10mm wide that had to be missing when built), two spun rotor bearings, needs a shaft and main bearings, and mazda broke half the solenoids on the engine externals during the install, then tried to glue them back together. He paid over $5k for this privilege.

Pictures!

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Both mine and Houstonrx8ers housings were used.

This had less than 30k on it, was naturally aspirated, and was ran with the SOHN adapter, BHR Ignition, no cat, and was premixed from day one. Everything was in good order, but it was failing due to a coolant seal leak.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153125837/

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

I see a lot of that from any rx8 with more than say 70-80k miles. Also see a lot of it on FD rx7s.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Yeah we have pulled part 3 Mazda remans here locally and non of them made it to 50k. One of them was poorly maintained and it had the most miles, .

IIRC, sleepy-z (ex reman plant employee) said housings were reused when they were determined in spec. Rob @ Pineapple doubted that mine were in spec when they were reused by Mazda based on what he saw up on tear down on his end considering I had premixed, changed the oil religiously, etc.

But who know. But my Sohn appeared to be working and the frequent oil changes as well.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153673244/http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153688222/
Larger shot of the housing.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9krpmrx8/6153673850/

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (3)

Yes, mazda seeks to reuse components in remans whenever possible and only replaces them when no "reusable" used parts exist. That is, obviously, why they take cores to begin with, to tear down and recover reusable parts from.

That in itself is in no way bad and is exactly the same thing that all rebuilders such as myself do. The problem is in how they do it.

They tear down old cores and there is probably someone standing there judging the parts as they come apart, deciding 'yes" or 'no" on each used component. The 'yes" parts get cleaned and the "no" parts get scrapped. The problem is, we don't know how educated that inspector is, whether they know what to look for, or what mood they are in that day or whether they are already 5 minutes late for break and just don't give a f*** right that moment. They probably put less care into their inspections than a private builder whose personal name is on the line might.

A private builder would distinguish between excellent condition used parts, average condition used parts, and questionable/borderline used parts, and generally would not mix wildly different condition parts up or would label them differently. I do not believe the reman program has a way to distinguish levels of condition once a part is judged 'good".

Once the 'good" used parts are cleaned they get brought to where people are assembling the remans. Their preference is to grab parts from the "used" cart first, and when there is no used component remaining available, only then do they grab a new one instead. A private builder would give consideration to keeping like-condition parts together while mazda's process does not, so you can wind up with an engine with a few nice parts and a few really borderline parts all together.

So a lot of reman quality comes down to 'luck of the draw". If they were out of "reusable" rotor housings on the day that your reman got built, you'll get new housings. If some "reusable" housings had just come in to the assembly area from the core teardown area, then there's no telling what you might get. There is no way for the average person, or even the dealership guys, to distinguish between these type of reman builds.

On the other hand sometimes the reman program runs low on pretty much everything and there are times when they will either 1) build blocks from mostly all new parts because they are out of used, or 2) import japan-built zero mile blocks (just like what the car came with when new) and send them out as "remans" until core component stock gets built back up with time.

Ray at Malloy mazda claims to have a method to detect these "all new part" remans (for rx7s, not sure about rx8s) and he sells them at higher prices than a 'regular luck of the draw" reman....but with good reason since a zero mile all-new-part japan-assembled block would be worth twice what a regular reman or rebuild would be.

9krpmrx8

iTrader: (46)

Exactly, and even with new engines there are no guarantees. My original engine only lasted 22,000 miles and was well maintained. My first reman lasted almost 75,000 miles and then just gave up from one day to the next without warning. It's all in the parts used and the attention to detail.

j9fd3s

don't forget that there have been 2-3 different reman facilities since that FD motor was done.

the florida reman plant would spray paint over the grease, and just generally use junk hard parts. if you search the Rx7 forum it turns out the new rotor housings were going out the back door :facepalm:

then AC/delco got the contract, and they took all the counterweights and put them in one container :facepalm:

the new plant, has actually just shipped NEW FD engines for the last few years, they call it a reman, but they are brand new. i think once they run out though, that'll be it.

and all the Rx8 remans i've seen have had new rotor housings, but i haven't seen em all. i'm also sure they just use the side seals as stamped on the rotors, so there's no clearancing going on. its not perfect, but if you have damage to the engine, its more cost effective.