ratm's rew build - RX8Club.com



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Old 06-10-2017, 05:34 AM   #1
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ratm's rew build

Hi folks,

I have been wanting to put up a build thread but have been too busy working on my car

The car, a 2004 series one RX8 in bland silver, leather luxury model (all the bells and whistles lol) I bought the car in October 2015 as a cheap daily/track day car, it had all the good bits on it, a whole bunch of Japanese name brand ****, HKS, RE Amemiya etc and a DNA Motorsports supercharger kit, somebody wasted a **** load of money on it.

The beastly renesis was very low on comp, 60-65 psi on the front rotor, 80-85 on the rear, it barely started when I picked it up and the first thing I put in it was an upgraded starter motor so I could drive it.

I put some ls2 coils on it, new plugs etc and after many a water decarb it still struggled to start, for ***** and giggles we put it on my mates dyno dynamics dyno, a whopping 195 hp on the back wheels, problem was after 3 dyno pulls it didnt really want to start anymore.

Time for a new engine.

I talked with Ric Shaw (Australian rotary workshop) about doing a rew conversion on it, after the usual long winded "mate there is a lot of work involved, you dont understand how much work is involved" Ric speech he says "$25,000 - $30,000 !

I told him I could buy another FD for that so we agreed on building as strong a renesis engine we could, (peripheral exhaust rotor housings, studding dowelling, bridge porting, FD apex seals etc).

While at Rics the blower bearing **** itself so I rebuilt the blower but the oil seal that I was sold didnt do the job so a turbo was decided on, a Borg Warner EFR 8374 IG.

Long story short, after running in the engine and being told by Ric it could cost "$9000 to $10000, maybe more" to install the turbo I had second thoughts.

I then bumped into a good friend of mine who I havent seen in years, Daniel from Cromaz who told me to sell the engine and that he would build me an FD engine and install it.

He supplied and built a pretty bullet proof engine (for my needs anyway, street, trackdays, clubsprint etc) for me, a turbo bridge FD engine with blueprinted e shaft, clearanced rotors, some extra studding, everything pretty much new inside with SCR apex seals etc.

He removed the old engine and box and installed the new engine and box and built the turbo manifold, dump pipe and exhaust to the rear muffler.

Ill get into more details in the coming posts on how we got it to bolt in with an FD gearbox.

Here are some pics of it when I got it and before the new engine.
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Old 06-10-2017, 05:38 AM   #2
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To get the engine and gearbox in sounded easy, (it would have been) buy a crossmember ($450) and use the bellhousing and rear extension housing from a JDM RX8 5 speed (which is basically the same gear case) so that it would bolt up to the PPF, the shifter would come out the hole and to use the push type RX8/FC RX7 clutch and pressure plate.

The FD pull type really cant be used because the master and slave cylinder on the RX8 doesnt have enough throw.

Once getting the car back I noticed that the gearstick was over to the left, I asked Daniel and he said that the exhaust Ric built was in the way of the PPF and thats the best fit he could get and told me to build a new exhaust, I told him that I just paid a **** load for this one, I should have listened to him.

I got under the car and the exhaust Ric built was jammed up into the PPF and you physically couldnt get the engine in straight, I thought the gear stick was over to the passenger side more than usual when I got it back from Ric but thought, "he knows what he is doing, maybe Im dreaming", anyway we pulled the exhaust off up until the back muffler and built a new 3 inch stainless exhaust that actually fits now and doesnt rub on the PPF, and guess what, the gear stick is where its supposed to be now !

Daniel had to make various adjustments to the dump pipe etc, he is a patient man

The next thing was that the firewall was in the way but with a bit of persuasion with a baby sledge hammer we were able to massage it to where the cosmo RE inlet manifold just fits.

The seam on the drivers side of the chassis rail was in the way of the turbo so he trimmed it back a bit, the engineer told me to add a plate of metal to strengthen it.

Also the drivers side front brake line was millimeters away from the dump pipe so I drilled a hole in the same seam a bit further back and will re route the new line through there and then heat shield it.

Three new brake lines had to be made as the two main master cylinder lines and the RH front brake line go along the firewall where the manifold is now so with my trusty $15 chinese ebay pipe bender and some new brake line I went to work making new ones that go above the manifold and along the top of the firewall.
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Old 06-10-2017, 05:42 AM   #3
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Next thing was to supply fuel, the stock system, like the stock engine, gearbox and diff is a turd.

The series one fuel pump assembly is poorly designed (they rectified it in the series two), the system is a returnless system and the tank is a saddle type tank.

I scored a series two pump assembly which is going in in the next week or so, it takes a 65c style pump (like the evo x and r35 gtr's) but it doesnt flow much so I will use an evo x pump to supply the 4 liter surge tank in the boot.

I ran new 3/8 hard lines from the fuel pump assembly, one supply, one return to and from the surge tank, a new 1/2 hard line from the twin bosch 044's out of the surge tank to the engine bay and a new 3/8 hard line from the engine bay back to the surge tank.

I also got Daniel to weld in the plates for the turbo and brake line.

Today I did most of the fuel line connections in the boot (no pics yet), just waiting for the fuel filter and some adapters.

I removed all the interior bar the dash and front door trims (these cars are heavy) and removed all the sound deadener from the boot floor and interior cabin.

The turbo and manifold weigh 20 kgs, after removing the carpet, sound deadener, rear seats and belts with the stock front seats (17 kgs, street trim) the car will be about 3 kgs heavier than stock, (stock is 1305 kgs) and without the passenger seat and my race seat in the car (37 kgs) the car should be around 1271 kgs. (FD RX7 RZ weight ?)

First pic, some rotary ****, the engine in Daniel's Cromaz drift FD
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Old 06-10-2017, 05:54 AM   #4
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Well Done! great progress so far, keen to see more updates.
I have been looking at the DNA supercharger kit recently.
How was it?Do you have any feed back to give on it?
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Old 06-10-2017, 05:57 AM   #5
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I am not a fan of the RX8 DBW throttle, it feels wrong to me and I wanted to use a cable FD throttle body and pedal.
The next thing was to work out how to install the FD pedal in the car but it just didnt want to cooperate, its just the wrong shape and size so I improvised.

I figured that I needed to retain the RX8 throttle pedal but somehow adapt the top section of the FD pedal to it so I cut off the top half off the FD pedal and attached it to the RX8 lower half of the pedal.

To do this I used two part epoxy resin and a stainless steel bolt through the two parts and then gutted the RX8 pedal housing and cut out a relief area so that the FD pedal section stuck out the top.

The next problem though was that the new pedal assembly (I measured the throw of the FD pedal before hand) didnt have as much throw or range as the original FD pedal which would mean only partial throttle so I filed down the pedal stop area of the RX8 pedal and the back of the pedal to get the extra range that I needed.

I cant remeber exactly as I did this back in February but I think it is now 50 mm.

I also added a spring so that the pedal returns back after being pressed down.

I then drilled a hole in the firewall and passed the FD throttle cable through.

Thats it for today, Ill upload more pics and updates soon, Im happy to answer any questions in the meantime.
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Old 06-10-2017, 06:08 AM   #6
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@ Mazda Sports Corner,

My advice is to avoid it, its more trouble than its worth.

If you intend on going anything over 6 psi you get major belt slipping issues.

Mine only saw 4 psi at 6500 rpm and peaked at 5.3 psi at 8000 rpm.

Prochargers are very expensive and they dont supply parts, I bought my parts from superchargerrebuilds.com who gets equivalent parts but the seal doesnt work, I rebuilt the blower with all new bearings and seal and put it back together and it leaked oil, a lot of oil !

I sold the whole thing at a bargain price and moved forward with the REW/turbo build.

For the same price as a procharger blower you can buy a borg warner 8374 internal gate turbo and buy the rest of the stuff from turblown (manifold, dump pipe etc) and still be way ahead budget wise.

The DNA kit is way too overpriced, definitely a rip off if you ask me, $12,000 Australian, for that money I have bought everything I have in my car currently (the engine was done at parts only cost by my friend) including the engine, gearbox, turbo, manifold, dump pipe, exhaust, fuel system, nicon rotary crossmember and oil pan, donor RX8 JDM 5 speed and anyone would agree they would rather have my current setup as opposed to a supercharged or turbo renesis in their RX8.
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Old 06-10-2017, 03:28 PM   #7
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Sweet build, can't wait to see how it turns out!
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Old 06-11-2017, 05:17 AM   #8
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Thanks mate.

Hopefully by the end of next week everything in the boot should be finished (the fuel system, battery installed and connected etc).

Then I get stuck into the engine bay and connecting everything to the engine and doing the v mount setup.

I installed the pedal today and ran the positive battery cable from the boot, in the cabin and through a hole in the tunnel just above the starter motor.

Seeing progress, hopefully its started and driving by August the latest.
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Old 06-11-2017, 07:52 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ratm View Post
@ Mazda Sports Corner,

My advice is to avoid it, its more trouble than its worth.

If you intend on going anything over 6 psi you get major belt slipping issues.

Mine only saw 4 psi at 6500 rpm and peaked at 5.3 psi at 8000 rpm.

Prochargers are very expensive and they dont supply parts, I bought my parts from superchargerrebuilds.com who gets equivalent parts but the seal doesnt work, I rebuilt the blower with all new bearings and seal and put it back together and it leaked oil, a lot of oil !

I sold the whole thing at a bargain price and moved forward with the REW/turbo build.

For the same price as a procharger blower you can buy a borg warner 8374 internal gate turbo and buy the rest of the stuff from turblown (manifold, dump pipe etc) and still be way ahead budget wise.

The DNA kit is way too overpriced, definitely a rip off if you ask me, $12,000 Australian, for that money I have bought everything I have in my car currently (the engine was done at parts only cost by my friend) including the engine, gearbox, turbo, manifold, dump pipe, exhaust, fuel system, nicon rotary crossmember and oil pan, donor RX8 JDM 5 speed and anyone would agree they would rather have my current setup as opposed to a supercharged or turbo renesis in their RX8.
Thanks for the information about the DNA kit,it has been 1 option i have been thinking about to give the 8 a little more power but what you are doing is the best way to go.I would love to do what you are doing when the time comes.
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Old 06-16-2017, 05:47 AM   #10
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I finished off the fuel system in the boot today.

I also mounted the Moroso sealed battery box that is vented to the boot floor.

The engineer told me to build a false floor to protect the fuel system so I made a frame up and welded the section of the stock spare wheel mount to it and then cut out a 3 mm aluminium plate for the top.

I then drilled holes in the boot floor and used rivnuts so that I could bolt the false floor to the boot floor.

The fuel lines from the fuel tank, the return back to the fuel tank and the return line from the engine are 3/8 hard lines with -6 fittings.

I fitted an inline -6 fuel filter before the surge tank too that has a removable filter element in it with choices of 30, 80 and 150 microns, I used the 150 as the series two fuel pump assembly has a pre filter and main filter in it anyway and I didnt want to limit flow to the surge tank.

Out of the dual Bosch 044 pumps I used -8 lines that go to a -8 y block and then into a -8 line that goes into a 40 micron fuel filter (it has a stainless steel element in it that can be cleaned and reused) then goes into a 1/2 hard line that goes to the engine.

Next thing is to relocate the washer bottle into the area where the LH rear seat was so that I can make some room in the engine bay, Ill be doing that tomorrow.
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Old 06-16-2017, 12:14 PM   #11
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Nice build. No BS.

Needs side skirts and different wheels.
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Old 06-16-2017, 01:47 PM   #12
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Forgive my ignorance on this setup... So for the surge tank, you have your factory fuel pump or aftermarket pump constantly topping off the surge tank through one of the lines, the other line is an overfill return to the main tank, and the third line is for vapor? Does the return line from the FPR go into the surge tank or main tank? I understand the setup from the surge tank forward, just wrapping my head around it since I have never used this type of setup
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Old 06-16-2017, 09:39 PM   #13
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@9krpmrx8, Thanks.

That is an old photo of the car, it looks different now, it has a stock front and rear bumper now and some wedssport wheels, I will be putting some gt skirts on it when I can get some but only for the aero really, Im not too concerned how the car looks, its all about how it performs on the track and how I can control the air flowing over and under it (the car is being built for clubsprint, time attack), but still keep it legal for road use.

@strockercharged95gt, the stock series two fuel pump pumps fuel to the surge tank, (-6 hardline with inline filter) the twin Bosch fuel pumps pump fuel to the engine, the return line from the FPR comes back to the surge tank (-6 hard line) and the third line (-6 hard line ) goes from the surge tank back to the fuel tank so that once the surge tank is full any excess fuel gets dumped back into the fuel tank through the top of the fuel pump assembly via a -6 bulkhead fitting.

The fuel tank is stock although I still have to research how the tank vents and the charcoal canister etc works but I tried to keep the stock tank as standard as possible where instead of pumping fuel to the engine in the stock return less system I just diverted it to pump to a surge tank and any excess gets dumped back into the tank.

Bosch 044 fuel pumps are very common here in Australia in the high performance tuning/racing scene, I think they flow about 265 lph each and are relatively cheap and are very reliable so thats why I used them, also the surge tank is a 4 liter tank (about a gallon) which will make sure that the engine will never run lean under boost, especially in a corner.
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Old 06-26-2017, 06:49 AM   #14
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Can't wait to see more from you mate. Where is CroMaz located? They don't seem to have an address on their FB page.

Great to see a BW8374 fitting there despite our steering wheel being on that side. I need to see this beast when it's done mate!
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Old 06-26-2017, 11:45 AM   #15
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Hi mate,

Cromaz was a workshop, he closed it down and now works for a race team and builds engines on the side, he got sick of dealing with the retail rotary market I think, customers can be a pain in the butt.

He mainly concentrates on engines, he doesnt work on customers cars, I was very lucky that he did all this work on my car, seeing as we go way back.

He had fun trying to fit the turbo in there, some sacrifices had to be made, like removing the omp and slightly notching the seam, the efr is a big turbo, trying to squeeze it in there and not melt stuff was a challenge.

Where are you located ?
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Old 06-27-2017, 02:14 AM   #16
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I wouldn't mind notching the seam so long as it's reinforced like you have done. A little iffy about removing the OMP though. Was hoping to fit the Rotary Aviation OMP adapter.

I'm close by in Canley mate.
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Old 07-06-2017, 07:50 AM   #17
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Cool man, when the car is finished Im happy to meet up with you somewhere and show you.

I really had no choice about the omp, where the turbo manifold runs now its just wont fit and my mate didnt want to run in any closer to the steering rack as its plastic on top there and he runs premix on his quad rotor with no problems so it good enough for me

The engineer was fine notching the seam, just as long as it didnt go into the box section.
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Old 07-06-2017, 08:29 AM   #18
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Some more progress pics.

Sticking to the theme of what works on tuned FD's I started the v mount setup.

My mate got me a fenix radiator, the same one he uses on his quad rotor drift FD.
I cut the inlet and outlet pipes off and the fill inlet and cap. (these still need to be welded up and closed off)

We will be welding in a partition in the top tank and having both the inlet and out let going to either side of the partition in the top tank so that water flows out of the engine, into the top tank, through the radiator core down into the bottom tank, then back through the radiator core and into the top tank and back into the engine.

I scored a cheap intercooler off ebay that has 2 1/2 inch inlet and outlet pipes and fits neatly between the ecu box and fuse box.

I had to make sure to mount the intercooler low enough so that the turbo inlet pipe can run over the top of it and out the front panel to a custom air box (which I am building now) which meant that the radiator top tank had to be just under the stock battery box cross brace.

The new inlet and outlet from the radiator will come out between the brace and the front sway bar (just enough room).

I made up some radiator mounts out of some flat steel bar, they arent pretty but the car isnt a show car, it just needs to be reliable and work

The trick was to try and pass a 4 inch diameter tube from the turbo inlet under the turbo outlet pipe, its a tight squeeze but I should just make it.

I also scored, again off ebay an FC RX7 oil cooler which will be the third oil cooler. It wont get alot of air flow because of the bumper cover but its there mainly as a heat sink and to allow more oil capacity in the system.

I will be turfing the oem passenger side oil cooler and upgrading that to a larger one also so engine oil temps on the track wont be a problem.

This has all just been trial fitted, it all has to come out to be welded and final adjustments made.

The next step was to try and fit the air con condenser on the top of the radiator. Luckily the lines are pretty soft and I was able to bend them (carefully) and re route them but the air con line that goes from the condenser to the pump (the rubber one with aluminium fittings) will have to be extended by about 15-20 centimetres.

I did crease one line (the one that goes from the firewall to the switch block next to the ecu) but got another one from the wreckers.

In the future I will be upgrading to a series two front end (I have most of the parts) because the oil cooler and radiator openings are huge compared to the series one front end.


One thing I have noticed during this build is that nothing fits and its an absolute pain in the *** to try and fit everything needed in the limited space available. Every single item in the engine bay that I have had to install just doesnt fit and requires a lot of creative problem solving to try and make work, every night my head hurts !
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