VikingDJ

Not that I care, but I figured I'd post this anyway. I just looked at trade in value of my fully equipped RX8. Msrp was 36k, and trade in value is a sad $22,900 on my 04 Rx8 with only 9200 miles on it. I also looked up my 04 STI that had a $32,500 Msrp, and it books at $24200. That's rather surprising that the STI is currently holding it's value more then the RX8. maybe in time it will change. I tend to think the extras you add on to the RX* like GT package and navigation are why this is happening, because the base msrp of the RX8 is considerably lower then STI. Either way, I'd never have thought a STIwould be retaining it's value more then an RX8, even though the RX8 has a $3500 higher Msrp. We'll see what happens in the next year, and if the STI finally begins to drop. I really don't care all that much, but I do find this interesting.

To add to it, I wonder if the fact that STI is limited, and RX8 isn't, if that also comes into play. What do you guys think about this?

ironmedic

yeah im stuck in that boat right now. im trying to get rid of my rx8 but the trade in sucks so bad. i have to come up with alot of cash to offset the whole deal.

VikingDJ

I guess the fact that there are still plenty of unsold 04 models selling for insanely cheap prices is the main reason why this is happening. This is definitely NOT the time to trade in your 04. You're gonna take it in the rear if you do.

sandia8

'EDSEL' now the RX8

says it all!!

u have to hope u did not buy a yellow one
cause u going have that banana forever

MI_FamilyMan

Where are you getting your figures? Is that what the dealer if offering you, or are you quoting BlueBook values??

If you refer to the recent Money magazine, you would see that the RX-8 is expected to retain 42% of it's value after 5 yrs. This is one of the highest figures out there (anything over 40% was pretty darn good).

I would expect that when the 8 is replaced, or discontinued that it's value will stay high because of the rotary following, barring any catastrophic discoveries about longevity.

VikingDJ

This is straight from Kelly Blue book. It has to be accurate, because if they are selling your exact 04 RX8 new for 26k, you'd be lucky to even get what KBB says. I think you can take Money magazine's quote and put it on ice. That 42% quote is quickly losing stock, because for my model, 25% is already gone from original value in private party sale in first year. I am hopeful that once the 04 models are gone, that the value drop will stall, and car will put out closer to what money magazine says. Time will tell, but for now it is looking very bad.

Elara

never, ever listen to Kelley Blue Book. Trade-in value is almost always wrong when compared to real world prices. In working for an automotive retailer, we constantly have people bitching about "well Kelley Blue Book says THIS" when in reality, KBB seems to be randomly making up their numbers. It's really very odd.

Spin9k

Where do you get your MSRP of $36K. The highest MSRP i'd ever heard of for an 04 was someting like 33K w/nav. Did your dealer do an 'ADM' (added dealer markup) hijack on you or something?

MI_FamilyMan

Out of curiosity I did mine on a private-party value and I got $26,305. And yes, there are a lot of variables that Kelley Blue Book does not take into account (ie. location, etc.). I am lucky I don't have to be concerned about it because I plan on hanging on to mine for a long time...

VikingDJ

That was my MSRP. Build an rx8 with every option available on mazdausa.com, and you'll see the 36k. ELARA, for where I live, and my experience, I have to respectfully disagree. I tried trading my RX8 in in August for an STI. The lady at Subaru went straight to KBB.com, they looked over my car, and offered exactly what it said. I backed away fast because I could not take the HUGE hit, so I just kept RX* and bought STI without trade. When I got my RX8, they did same exact thing for my other trade in. I realize that all dealers don't use this, but both mazda and subaru dealers I have visited used KBB as their source. KBB may not always be accurate, but in this case it is, because why would a dealer give you more then KBB, when they have an 04 new sitting there they are willing to sell for 25k. It what you are saying is true, then that would mean I'd get even less then $22,900, which is a complete insult. If they gave me over KBB, I'd essentially be able to walk in there and trade in my 04 for a new 04, with only adding about $2k.

mattisax

I'll add this since I'm currently looking at buying a '04 RX-8. They are selling them much cheaper, current quote is 26,500 for a car with a 33,100 MSRP, but most of the discount is rebates from mazda, 4,000 in total. So once all those are moved, which will probably be soon, then I would think trade-in and used values would come back up. For right now though, this is probably a bad time to try to unload an '04, and a dealer is going to (or should) know that there are still new '04s left on the lot.

Omicron

Elara is right, KBB is not reality. There might be a few dealerships that rely on it, but very few. This is mostly because it's available online free to the public - and do you really think they want to use a source that allows people to come in with specific value information on their cars? No freakin way. This keeps them from maximizing profits. Most dealerships use "subscription only" pricing resources.

And as for how much you get in trade, it depends entirely on the dealership. They look at how much markup they have on the car you're buying, what kind of hidden incentives they get from the manufacturer on each model "X" sold, how much they can sell your trade in for usually to a wholesaler, and if you're financing through them which allows them to get a kickback from the finance company.

One more point: While RX-8 values may be a bit down at the moment, just wait until the lack of supply of new ones (due to the plant fire in Japan and the steel shortage) catches up with the demand.

VikingDJ

I agree. As a whole KBB is not reality, but it is a basis to go off of when looking at how car depreciates. In my case KBB held true, but I realize that for most people it will not. I believe that my situation allowed it to be, because they wanted to sell me car, and when I threw KBB at them, they felt they had no choice but to patronize me and follow it. You'd be surprised what you can do to a dealer when you convince them that it's KBB or nothing. Separating KBB trade, and purchase price separately will drive dealers crazy because you are beating them at their own game of sales, but if they want to sell car bad enough, they will bite. That is what I did, and many of you need to do. Many times they will falter, and KBB will have more legitimacy. After they gave me rock bottom offer on STI, I then re-nigged on trade in and took car for offered price. Did they like it? HELL NO. But they wanted the last remaining 04 STI off the lot, and they let me play by my own rules. I will always get the upper hand on dealers, because when I buy a car I do not have the expectation of walking away with it. You'd be surprised how well you can haggle them when you are not bluffing, and you will walk away no questions asked if they do not meet your demand. I do believe that even though the value of RX8 has plummeted greatly, it will even out in end, and car will have a resectable trade in value in a few years. AS omnicorn said, the demand needs to catch up with supply, and if Mazda learns form their mistake of overproducing the 04 RX8, we will all be good to go.

irish8

I couldn't agree more. kbb is NOT a good source for valuing cars. My way of assertaining trade-in value is to look up the car on say autotrader.com or carmax.com. Match the specs. Take the median cost and minus 10%-15%. I have had success with this thought process many times. The reality is, cars these days are not an investment! I love my 8, but she is falling victim like all others!!

- Irish
P.S. Dealers mostly use NADA to value cars.

BlueEyes

Welcome to the world of cars, they're bad investments, don't buy one if you're worried about losing money.

nomopistons

Bommarito South County had an RX 8 for sale for 39,000. They put a bunch of stuff on it like chrome factory wheels, but it had a cloth interior????

VikingDJ

\\

Well, for you and most others it isn't However, for me it is. If the dealer won't give me KBB trade in value, I don't trade it in, and I walk, plain and simple. it takes serious discipline, and if dealer caves in, great, if they let you walk, that's fine too. I Call it a gift, call it being stubborn, but that's the way I am. KBB works for me. Don't complain to dealers when they low ball you below KBB. Tell them that it's either KBB, or nothing. You'd be surprised at how they will react. It's PRICELESS.

dazygirl415

I just went to the NADA site through autotrader.com and priced my car at $25,900 for trade-in and $29,500 for retail. I came up with the sam KBB values earlier today as Viking did. Just proves that many factors come into play and you'll find all kinds of different offers.

8_is_enuf

Exactally why I leased.

Elara

rofl- that's almost exactly what you SHOULD be doing. Remember, dealers have to make money too, but if you aren't careful and seem too eager to sell, they will take you for everything they can. Trade-in on an RX-8 as DjViking described should be going for at least $24-25k, since dealers are generally asking between $26-28k for it.

jsh1120

It's misleading to estimate long-term resale value based on the one-year depreciation in a new model. Further, it's misleading to take the first year depreciation of any car as a guide to its long-term resale value.

For example, I just did a comparison of a 2004 350Z and a 2004 RX-8 on www.kbb.com. Used the 2005 MT touring model of the 350Z and the 2005 RX-8 MT with the GT package. According to Kelley, the 350Z (with 12K miles) dropped from an msrp of $34,180 to $24,875, depreciation of $9305. The comparable RX-8 depreciation ($31,685 - $22,050) is $9635, a difference of $330.

As we all know, Mazda is heavily discounting 2004 models and some folks on this forum have reported relatively heavy discounts on 2005's. If you are someone who paid MSRP for your RX-8 you either (a) aren't a very skilled negotiator or (b) you're an early adopter who wanted to get the car as soon as it came out. More likely, you paid considerably less than MSRP when you bought the car. If that's the case, you really can't complain that Mazda continues to provide good deals to other buyers.

Assuming the RX-8 manages to retain its looks and is viewed as a reliable vehicle by the buying public, one should be able to drive the car for five years and retain a good resale value.

khtm

you paid $36K for your car? I think you got ripped off...

salituro64

He said 36K MSRP, he didn't say he paid that for the car.

Also, Spin9k My car was also sticker priced just under 36K. Do the math, 6sp GT, appearance package, spoiler, rotary accents, NAV, 6 CD Changer, moon roof defelector, strakes Etc. - There are definately many complete packaegs that will bring you over 33K (unless the car is cheaper where you live)

VikingDJ

I picked up my 04 in February of last year. Msrp was 36k, I got it for $32,500, which was at invoice, and at time a decent deal. I played simple hard ball, and got exact KBB trade in on my old car, and got them to sell me car for invoice. I feel at time it was best I could do, so I took it without walking. You can use KBB to your advantage, and make it legit, if you play your cards right. First, you get them to rock bottom sale price of car. Then after you reach your best deal, you show them the KBB value in hand, and they throw the speech about it not being accurate and offer you less, then you simply say " WELL THANKS FOR YOUR TIME, BUT I"M GONNA HAVE TO PASS. It got annoying, because they kept throwing new numbers at me, and I had to do everything in my power to not cave, and be willing to walk. I just said, that this is all I can afford, and I'm sorry but it's just not going to work out. I explained to them, that this is only way I'd buy car, and I'd understand if they turned me down. I guess I got lucky, becsause both my attempts have been successful. Like I said before, if you don't get a woody, and play into the dealership's hands, you can really do well. It is hard though because you can really **** them off, but if you handle it the right way, and be nice about it, they'll either cave, or let you walk out of there. I admit, because I have to walk away if things don't go my way, it can be depressing, but I can always try another dealer, or wait it out. If you ever have the gonads to try the stunts I pull, you'll see that it can work.

Spin9k

You're right, I forgot about all those sky-high options that can be stuck on to jazz up the price by thousands at a blink. When I got mine (7/18/03) we were happy to just finally get the car:D , there were no dealer options LOL, so the price was the price pretty much. They had a few port-installed options (not to mention the infamous ECU-mod), but you had to order those sight unseen (we didn't even know what words like 'appearance pkg' meant, for example) months, or in my case years, ahead when you put down the deposit.

About 6 months later the rest of the add-ons came along.