TrAsHeR

First I would like to say hi! I'm new on this board, been reading it ever sine I bought my RX-8 two days ago, now it's time to register and start contributing....

It's my 2nd car but never had a license. I never messed alot with performance or aero tuning but it becomes my next big things to computer. (I'm an administrator/programmer)

Anyway, I need your help guys. I made a terrible mistake when purchasing this car. I was at a dealership and only wanted to check it out (hence, no license, wouldn't be able to drive the car) but they made it so slick I ended up buying it.

Hell, it wasn't a mistake altho I might prefer the 350Z, seeing that the available bodykits for the 8 don't necessarily blow you away. The thing is that they showed the car to me as "fully loaded" and I was so naive to believe it. You know how it is, you are dreaming all over the car and then this guy comes running saying "yea, your credit is good... let's proceed" - I was kinda blinded throughout the entire process of purchasing the car.

Before I line out the details I have to say that I'm new in the States. I moved to Hawaii in July 2003, I've never bought a car from a dealer.

1. Don't I get some car papers that show the specs? In germany it's this green paper that lists your VMAX, HP, tires, anything. I didn't get anything from my dealer!

2. They told me it's fully loaded, I don't even know if I have an appearance package or anything. Cuz: I don't even have leather and paid a nifty price tag!

3. I got them chrome wheels, saying "MKW" on them. Can anyone tell me where these came from (manufacturer) so I can find out the true retail price of them. 3000 USD seemed a bit heavty afterwards.

4. They put into the paperwork "bought as seen", did I get ripped off and didn't get any extras? How do I find out?

FYI, they told me hawaii would be expensive, blah blah, had to pay 10k extra on the MRSP, so we ended up 38.500 USD (something around that). Substract 2k but add another 2k for tax and I'm back on 38.5k

but it can't be I paid almost 40k and don't even have leather. Can't even find the option to set my DSP.

Oh, btw, it's the 6-spd.

Another thing: I'm a programmer, I'm working on a project you might be interested on. Can't say a whole lot about it yet but I'm gonna make use of the CAN and drop another computer in the car for real-time diagnosis, mp3's spanning multiple hdd's with "live-injection" wifi hookup to my server (auto replication as soon as parked in the carport), etc, etc,... I'll be posting more about this project soon.

thx for your help!

zthang

WOW...$38k does seem like a hefty prcie tag. Im not sure, but i would assume you could return the car within like 7 days or something right? I think there's a law like that but i'm not completely sure. ANybody?

RX Guy

$38,000 does seem really high. I haven't check lately. But if I recall correctly, a fully loaded GT package MSRP at around $32,000. Others please confirm me. The manufacturer's MSRP for polished aluminum wheels (not chrome) is $500 each.

s1mike22

can you tell us what other options are on your car?

since mazda offers options in packages, having non-leather seats would mean no navigation, etc...not only did they lie to you, but 38k for an rx 8 is extremely high. and what's the deal with 3000 dollar rims? check out this link to some mkw rims for pricing...

http://www.tireandwheeldeals.com/rwdwheels/mkw.htm

looks like they took advantage of you...go back and give them hell

ptiemann

do you have the DSC, DTS, curtain airbags, xenon headlights?

For $31500 you should be having these things but I suspect since you didn't get the heated leather seats, you're not having these either.

I think that $10k is a bit too much for shipping to Hawaii!

Try to return it!

Call a lawyer and find out if there is a 3-day right of recission. It's different from state to state.

I'm a German programmer immigrant myself. Welcome!

ptiemann

P.S.:

I understand that depending on which island you're on, there might be only one Mazda dealer. But if I was you, I would NOT EVEN THINK of re-negotiating with this dealer.

Ask the Nissan dealer if they add $10k to the MSRP as well.

The invoice price for the RX-8 with GT packate is already ~ $26k, so the dealer makes $5k profit (or?) if sold at MSRP of $31500.

TrAsHeR

Ok, thx. I'm looking at the NKW rims, the only one that looks kinda like mine are the MK9 with the difference I have wheellocks on.

Comparing the price, they totally ripped me off but I'm cool with that, at least I got the rims on my finance plan, don't have a lot of money to put into the car at the moment.

But the deal on the car pisses me off now. I'm checking the mazda site to find out how the packages differ from mine. It seems as mine is totally stock, what I got more was the rims and that seems to be it.

I will call my dealer up in an hour and find out what they have to say about it. But as I said, the paper I signed stated "purchased as seen" or something like that. I know it's my fault but there must be a way to make something out of this. If worse comes to worse I'll keep it but will always know I paid 25% more than everyone else for my car which kinda sucks

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just compared on the Mazda USA page. I dont' have xeon's, no sunroof, nothing. So.. no grand package for me.

No package it all it seems, only the rims for 3k, seems as they ripped me off.

Anyone know about the return policy or what I can do about this?

brothervoodoo

Sounds overpriced indeed, for your next future purchase, here is a worthwhile read, this article could have saved you a lot of money:

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...2/article.html

Once you sign, there is very little you can do about it. Never buy on impulse without knowing true values or a basis of comparison. Chalk it up as a lesson learned.

ptiemann

GET A LAWYER.

Don't tell the dealer "I'm getting a lawyer".. they hear that probably every week.

Go in there WITH your lawyer.
Since it's Sunday.. I'd check

- county licensing board (you can complain there about this dealer, if they get enough complaints, your dealer loses his license to do business)

- better business bureau (less effective, but cannot hurt)

- a letter to the attorney general.. 25% is beyond normal profit



Did you get a 4 year / 50,000 mile warranty?
It is very suspicious that you have this line "as seen".

I think there's fraud going on.

brothervoodoo

Not to offend any car salesmen but for 90% of them, fraud and deception is their business. If you don't know what's going on, they will bend you over the table.... I'm not surprised. Hopefully this gentleman can try to recover something back but he really needs to be a better informed buyer, salesman are not there to make sure you get a good deal.

ptiemann

Another note.. Hawaii should be cheaper tha continental United States.

The cars come on a ship from Japan, not on a plane.

Hawaii is half as far as California. Japanese cars should be cheaper there, in theory. Unless they come in at Los Angeles and are shipped back then..

ptiemann

Another note:

this is hard to believe. Do you know how the USA credit system works?
If you came to the USA in July, you might not have credit history.

You most likely have no credit history. Do you have credit cards yet? Decent limits?

Here's my own experience. I had owned a house in Germany many years, always paid everything blahblah..
in America, the credit scoring system doesn't know what you did overseas. They don't even recognize your credit history if you're from Canada (I heard this 3 years ago)

So, what the car dealer meant was that you have no bad marks on the credit record. But it most probably is an empty record.

Did you get financing by the dealer? You could have been f*cked over there even worse. Because let's say they gave you a 5% interest financing but there is FINE PRINT, and it says "if the financing bank doesn't accept the loan, then you agree to use one of their other banks charging considerably higher interest".

A friend of mine works in financing and I just talked to her, she's heard of people paying 21+% interest on their car.

Not trying to scare you, but you should check on this.

-Peter

Literatii

I looked at going to the BBB for something about a year ago. The application for reporting poor-business practices was actually on-line! Pretty cool. There is even an on-line search for a business that reports how many complaints they've had.

Check it out.

WTF no turbo

Ex car salesman here and i hate to say it but, live and learn.Sounds to me like they took your for a ride.Couple things to note.
If your tagged your done period.When i say "tagged"i mean you have your own tag temp or hard plate doesnt matter and not a dealer tag.
Find the sticker they should have given it to you.Look for a list like"dealer installed options"type thing under the mazda msrp price.
Agood dealer will least options on a buyers order.Look at that as well.
How did you pay for it?Dealer finance or your own.

RX-Hachi

TrAsHeR, I live in Hawaii and I think I know which RX-8 you might have bought. I've seen two with MKW wheels at Cutter, one was blue the other black. First, dealer mark ups have been a long standing practice here in Hawaii on almost all makes, not just Mazda. They all give you a line that it's because Hawaii is more expensive, but it's crap! You just need to negociate harder!!!

In the RX-8's case, I've seem mark ups from $3000 to $5000 and even $7000 when the car first came out, it's crazy. But the other thing you really need to be careful of is the dealer "add ons". You paid too much for the MKW wheels (and Nitto tires?). The other thing is that some dealers (and I think your dealer) also add on a "paint protectant" package, which I've seen for $1500. This is a complete markup and rip off!!! So I think you probably paid $3000 for the standard dealer markup, plus $3000 for the MKW wheels, and then $1500 for the paint protectant. I'm sorry to say that you were indeed taken advantage of.

All of the above is listed on window sticker. The factory window sticker has all the specs you are looking for (HP, standard equipment, factor options etc.) Plus the dealer will add their own sticker to show the dealer "add on" items. Since it is all there in black and white, you don't have much chance in court. But if you just bought the car a few days ago, you might be able to return it. I am also amazed that they would sell you a car if you don't have your licence! Do you have insurance? This might be a legal angle you could use to return the car.

But don't feel too bad, many folks here in Hawaii have paid over MSRP to be among the first to own an RX-8. (I refuse to be one of them, and will buy next year.) At least you're driving an RX-8! I envy every one I see on the road.

ptiemann

yes, that's possible, at least in California.

I bought my first car (used Mazda 626) without an American driver's license. They wouldn't give me the car unless I first went next door to get insurance. I got insurance from State Farm - they happened to recognize my foreign driving experience so I got an ok rate, I went back to the dealer and completed the purchase.

If you come to California, and you drive a car, you need to get a California drivers license within a short period (2 weeks? 10 days???)
Anyway, that's not really enforcable. I waited 5 months to get my CA DL. The insurance agent didn't care.

Trasher can drive with his German driving license. but if the same cop pulls him over several times, he might have to come up with a better story than that he is a German tourist.

-=Zeqs=-

Add 2000 for the Navigation, which I'm hoping you got.

However... 6 speed with the touring package, since you don't have leather, should only run you about 31,000 with the navigation system. Does it have a changer? MP3 player? You gotta let us know what else it has. Moonroof?

How recently did you buy it? What's the name of the dealer? Does your state have a "No cooling off period"? If not, you might be able to return it...

As a last resort...if they really did shaft you...blow the engine twice within 18 months or 18000 miles, and call it a lemon I don't advise doing to every dealer...but if they are going to shaft you 8000 over what the true STICKER PRICE of the car is...then they should be treated as crooks.

TrAsHeR

Ok, it's all resolved, not as I wanted it to but at least I know where I'm standing at.

It was MY fault because I signed the deal, I can't blame salespersons because they are only doing their job.

RX-Hachi, where ya from man? I'm here from Mililani but bought the car at the Airport at JN Chevrolet which was a mistake. I just went down to Waipahu and would have gotten a better deal. A better deal because I wouldn't have to pay the markup.

The rims were 3000, obviously overpriced but I figured I'm putting them into the finance plan and at least I got some nice rims. Cuz I wouldn't be able to pay for my "addons" at the moment.

Additionally to the 3000 there was a mark-up of 7500. I pushed it down to 5500 USD but once you add the tax of 1.7, I'm back on the price I was before, totalling 38.500k

Any and either way I'm happy. I mean, I could have gotten a GT, fully loaded for the same price (hence, no markup in Waipahu) but do I really want that? Besides the xeons and the stability control, I'll be removing the GT Package in favor of custom parts. Know what I mean? I don't care about the GT body kit as I'm replacing it. I don't care about power seats because those will be thrown out in a few month in favor to some Recaro or Koenig seats. I wouldn't even care about the bose system if I had the money to replace it right away.

It's a done deal, I've learned from it, I'll be more careful in the future.

Btw, for those who asked: The car was bought/insured on my mom's name.


-----

Another thing: The Cutter dealer told me that I could fine JN for taking off the sticker from the car when I bought it. Legally the person who buys the car is suppose to take off the sticker. I taked to JN and they said they would take it off and postally mail it. Ah whatever, I got a RX-8, I should be happy not bitching.....

And sorry for posting in the wrong forum

edit: I've verified everything, it's the base model, I don't have any package other than optional rims

edit2: must have overseen the previous post. I don't even have a german license. I had a VW Polo in germany but drove 7000km without a license. Sold the Polo for an apple and an egg.

I'm not going to take this one out for a spin without license, I dont' want to risk it for the remaining days. Gonna get my permit on Tuesday.... Altho, I did testdrive the car :p

8_wannabe

hooo, lawd... they saw you coming a mile away. AT least you can take comfort there will be a great christmas party at that dealership courtesy of you. I suppose you've learned some valuable and expensive lessons.

One thing... you said it's in your mom's name? So did she also sign all the finance and purchase paperwork? How the heck did both of you together buy a car "by accident?"

TrAsHeR

netherless I'll be having my fun at christmas too, with the car that is

I've been checking out this car for quite some time now. My mom wanted to check out an Escalade so we did. On the way back I said I would want to check out the 8 and before we knew it, I was already signing the papers. Everyone makes mistakes, could have gotten a better deal if I would have checked out the other dealer (doh!),... but I don't regret it. It's a great car, the CAN looks good and I think I can do something great out of it. Real-time diag, yummy

Anyway, I'm not looking back, nothing I can do about it. Again, I've learned my lesson, time to focus on what's important now,... to make that beast unique - still have a lot to learn but I guess I've landed on the right board

poison123

Don't take this the wrong way, no matter how much fun a car is, it is no way worth almost a 10k markup. If you honestly believe despite the deal it was worth it, I got some nice land out in Florida I could sell you

Genshie

At least you are taking the merciless beating they gave you really well! God knows I would wouldn't be this positive if I got raped by a dealer.

Happy 10K markup Rotoring!

Kurt G.

rotarymagic

OK...my car is fully!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!loaded and it cost 34,000 USD. I am not sure about the Hawaii price hike, but Antything over 36,000 USD is unreasonable.


And that 34,000 USD was MSRP, we did no dealing on the price of the car only on the trade in.

itamijin

I live in Hawaii too, but I wouldn't pay any markup for RX8 especially considering other parts of the country are given invoice + 3-500.

Matson only charges $800 for transporting cars from California -> Hawaii. So, even if you get the car at MSRP in California, you are still saving $9200 (compare to paying 10k markup with HI dealer).

Say you go further and found a dealer in the midwest that gives invoice. The transportation to California is only about $700 + $800 for Matson. You are out $1500 for total transportation, but you got the car for $1500 over invoice, a saving of over $11000 (compare to HI 10k markup).

The only downside is time. You're gonna have to wait a few weeks for the car, but is that worth 10k to you? I am guessing this is an impulsive buy on your part.

I find HI dealers to be total ripoffs in general. Tony Nissan wants to charge a markup on the 04 Maxima even though everyone in the mainland is paying about invoice. I would NEVER buy anything from HI, especially when they keep this huge discrepency in price.

Cyclonus

Realistically, you did pay more than you had to, but it doesn't sound like the dealership did anything illegal. This is a capitalist economy, and their job is to make money. Sure, a lot of the stuff on the car was extra crap with high dealer markup, and they very likely would have taken a few thousand off if you worked them for it, but if you were in charge of the dealership, would you have just given someone a few thousand off even if you were about to make the sale at the present price? My advice would be to enjoy the car, and next time you're looking for a car, just do 15 - 20 minutes of research. You don't even have to shop around for hours and hours, just do some basic research, and you can figure out what a reasonable price is. Beyond that, if you want to haggle over getting an extra fifty or hundred dollars off, then you'll have to go around to different dealers. But just some basic research should keep you from getting hammered for thousands next time around.,