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It doesn't handle poorly, it's just not right. That being said, I have only driven this car on the snow and ice and some plowed sections of highway.
I picked the car up less than a week ago - there are some little things that I need to take care of on it but the wheel and tire thing I want to get out of the way.
I have the factory wheels, making winter tires easy and they have the TPMS sensors so the light would go off.
I don't know why the previous owner choose different widths of wheels with the same tires.
He also removed the stereo and put it back in so now half the buttons don't work and the power button doesn't turn it off - you have to mute it. He also had trouble swapping the map lights - which I've already replaced with red LED's.
For now I just want to fix all the little things to get the car in the condition I want it.
I'm not sure if I should get narrower rear wheels, wider front wheels, or wider rear tires?..
I don't know why the previous owner did it either but, based on your description, I can hazard a guess: He/She was probably an idiot.
In what way is the handling "not right"?
What is your intended purpose for this vehicle?
If you aren't going to take it to a track then it won't really matter.
Based on your description, I doubt that the current wheel/tire setup is an issue. It's not ideal but it's probably not a problem for street driving, either. If you're looking for a reason to customize the car to your tastes, that's fine, you don't need justification for that beyond "I want to". That is unless you're trying to convince your significant other.
If you are trying to make the case to your SO, then you can tell them that I said it's heinously unsafe and that you need a set of Blizzak snow tires for the factory wheels RIGHT NOW BECAUSE SNOW GODDAMNIT!!! Then, in the spring, when tire manufacturers start offering all kinds of rebates through TireRack, you can get a set of 20 lb 17x8 wheels with whatever 245/45-17 summer rubber you want. Lighter wheels with summer rubber are better for braking and accident avoidance. Then you can partially subsidize your purchases by selling your existing oddball wheels/tires online.
In reality, you won't because you'll use the money from selling your wheels/tires to customize the car fix all the other things that the previous owner screwed up.
I don't think that the description of the previous owner is inaccurate. The car for the year is low mileage and it wasn't taken care of poorly so, you know...
I can't really comment on the cars limits of adhesion since I've only been able to drift everywhere - summer tires in the winter n' all.
In my younger days I raced in SuperBike, SuperStock, MX, Enduro, Rally, and road racing. So knowing myself, I suspect I will be on a few tracks.
I don't know why they put a 8.75" wheels on the front and 9.75" wheels on the rear with the same aspect ratio tire. So that's what's not right. The rolling diameters are not the same.
I enjoy driving fast, I enjoy loading the chassis hard into a corner, I enjoy sliding, and I enjoy tracks.
With that information, what would be the best thing to do?
The car being drivable isn't good enough for me. I like things to be right and things to be precise. I'm just unsure which option is the best way to correct this?
The dome light doesn't work either - I can see he attempted to do something but what...I'm not sure.
Originally Posted by NotAPreppie
I don't know why the previous owner did it either but, based on your description, I can hazard a guess: He/She was probably an idiot.
In what way is the handling "not right"?
What is your intended purpose for this vehicle?
If you aren't going to take it to a track then it won't really matter.
Based on your description, I doubt that the current wheel/tire setup is an issue. It's not ideal but it's probably not a problem for street driving, either. If you're looking for a reason to customize the car to your tastes, that's fine, you don't need justification for that beyond "I want to". That is unless you're trying to convince your significant other.
If you are trying to make the case to your SO, then you can tell them that I said it's heinously unsafe and that you need a set of Blizzak snow tires for the factory wheels RIGHT NOW BECAUSE SNOW GODDAMNIT!!! Then, in the spring, when tire manufacturers start offering all kinds of rebates through TireRack, you can get a set of 20 lb 17x8 wheels with whatever 245/45-17 summer rubber you want. Lighter wheels with summer rubber are better for braking and accident avoidance. Then you can partially subsidize your purchases by selling your existing oddball wheels/tires online.
In reality, you won't because you'll use the money from selling your wheels/tires to customize the car fix all the other things that the previous owner screwed up.
The extra inch of width probably hasn't affected the actual rolling diameter that much. Even if it had, it would really only matter if you had 4WD/AWD and/or stability control.
If you have the budget, just replace the wheels and tires. XXR wheels aren't known for their quality.
Go with a square setup unless you're planning on installing a turbo. From the factory the car is biased a bit towards nice safe understeer and adding traction to the rear isn't going to help.
Just remember the mantra:
Strong, light, cheap; pick two.
What tires are on the car already? Are you okay with using those in the summer? If so, get some snow tires for your spare OEM wheels and then transfer your existing tires to a new set of wheels. If you don't like the existing tires, then get a set of 20lb 17x8 wheels with some basic $100 summer tires.
The extra inch of width probably hasn't affected the actual rolling diameter that much. Even if it had, it would really only matter if you had 4WD/AWD and/or stability control.
If you have the budget, just replace the wheels and tires. XXR wheels aren't known for their quality.
Go with a square setup unless you're planning on installing a turbo. From the factory the car is biased a bit towards nice safe understeer and adding traction to the rear isn't going to help.
Just remember the mantra:
Strong, light, cheap; pick two.
What tires are on the car already? Are you okay with using those in the summer? If so, get some snow tires for your spare OEM wheels and then transfer your existing tires to a new set of wheels. If you don't like the existing tires, then get a set of 20lb 17x8 wheels with some basic $100 summer tires.
Right. But it's still not correct. The rolling diameter not being effect that much means it's still effected and it means the rear end sits lower than it should. Also, it's just not correct.
I don't think the XXR wheels are good, it's just what the previous owner had.
I was considering putting the factory wheels onnin the mean time but they've been plasti-dipped, which I really don't like. So I'll see if I can clean them up.
I might do snow tires - we have a good 4-wheel drive so it's not critical that snows go on right now.
I'll have to stop in to Discount Tire to see if I can trade anything in.
Id like to add a turbo or supercharger but there are some things I want to straighten out first - also, I've seen a lot of turbo kits that do t seem very well done. I like having an enclosed intake and around here you don't really want one that's too open. The Racing Brat and the AFE look nice but it looks like the Racing Beat might be a better choice.
It looks like a boost gage was previously installed on the A-pillar so I'm guessing there was a turbo. I'd want to go with a forced induction set up that is quality. The car had a new engine in it so it's not unreasonable to assume there was a big turbo slapped onto a stock engine.
The tires on it now are Kumho 255/40/18 and they are new - still have the flashing from the molds on them. I'm not attached to the tires or the wheels that are on it. I'd rather he car be correct.
So it sounds like it doesnt doesn't matter if I address the front or the rear as long as it's addressed?
Can I put these 255/40/18's on the factory 18x8 wheels? Then I could possibly sell or trade the XXR's to fund better wheels.
The rear sits lower by an amount that would only be measurable with highly precise equipment. The real world result is negligible. If the rear looks like it's sitting lower, it's either in your head or there's something else going on. If nothing else, our cars look like they sit lower in the rear even with stock suspension/wheels because of the shape of the rear wheel arch.
From what I've read, it doesn't really matter which turbo kit you go with because you'll have to fix problems with all of them. The best kit is probably the one you assemble yourself. There's a decent body of knowledge on that around here.
Kumho makes a berjillion different tires, most with the "Ecsta" sub-brand, so you're going to have to be more specific. I'd be surprised if they're summer tires and you managed to move on flat ground. In fact, I just looked it up on TireRack. The only tire Kumho sell in 255/40-18 with 420 treadwear is the Ecsta 4X II which is an all-season tire. Or, more accurately, a "no season" tire. That's probably why you've been able to drive it without dying.
It doesn't really matter if you don't address the wheel situation at all (see first sentence).
Autocrossers have mounted 285-wide race-compound tires on the OE rims so 255-wide shouldn't be a problem and probably isn't a bad plan if you absolutely must get rid of those wheels.
Last edited by NotAPreppie; 01-27-2017 at 02:37 PM.
A 255/40/18 on a 18x8.75" wheel will stand taller than a 255/40/18 on a 18x9.75" wheel - the tire is being stretched - therefore the rolling diameter is smaller. A lot smaller or a little smaller - that's irrelevant. It is smaller and therefore not correct. A tire stretched as such would have less compliance from the stretch. Also, it looks dumb and I can't figure it why the previous owner would do that without making the appropriate changes to the tires.
I will clarify what I mean by, "summer" and, "winter" tire. This is in reference to the season at which you would want to use a particular tire. It is not in reference to what is stamped on the tire.
Here, in the winter, it gets cold and we have a good 4WD. All I'm asking right now, what would be the best way to address the initial question.
You are correct on the tire brand - which as I mention, I could take these tires or leave them. I am not attached to the wheels or the tires - the concern is making the vehicle correct.
Some people are terrified of winter driving. Some people enjoy it. I've been hit by
big rigs on two occasions so far. It happens.
Are people getting rubbing with 285's?
If anyone is wondering, this site is not friendly on a phone in either the mobile or full version. I looked for an app in the App Store - did I miss it?
I suppose I could put the factory wheels on and get factory sized tires...
You've mentioned 17's a couple times. Are people getting better performance on 17's than they are on the factory 18's?
Yes, I know it's getting stretched. The stretch isn't that big and there isn't anywhere near a 1:1 correlation between stretch width and resulting tire diameter decrease. I'd bet dollars to donuts you're looking at a difference best measured in millimeters.
The previous owner probably did it because he roasted off his mostly worn staggered tires before installing these. He didn't care what went on because he was planning on selling it. That's why the tires are brand new.
When I say summer tire, I'm saying a tire that shouldn't be used at temperatures lower than 40F because the rubber compound hardens to something approaching the elasticity of concrete. Snow tires are self explanatory.
I don't know about rubbing with 285's but I do know they're a bitch to mount. 245/40-18 is probably the most popular +0 size because it's abundant.
17" wheels are generally lighter and a significant portion of the mass is slightly closer to the center of rotation giving lower inertia. This improves acceleration, braking and makes it easier to turn the wheel (gyroscopic effect).
All things being equal, I doubt the difference between 17" and 18" wheels would be perceptible to anybody but race car drivers or dedicated track rats. 17" are cheaper and the performance benefit or penalty is negligible if you're on the street.
Your obsession with "correct" is rather odd. "Correct" in this case is subjectively fluid and entirely up to the person paying the money. There's nothing objectively incorrect about your car's wheel/tire setup unless it's causing a problem. Seriously. It's technically and mechanically fine unless you don't want it to be. Sure, it's less than ideal but I'd place a far higher priority on getting the other issues you mentioned resolved.
Last edited by NotAPreppie; 01-27-2017 at 05:32 PM.
Yes, I know it's getting stretched. The stretch isn't that big and there isn't anywhere near a 1:1 correlation between stretch width and resulting tire diameter decrease. I'd bet dollars to donuts you're looking at a difference best measured in millimeters.
When I say summer tire, I'm saying a tire that shouldn't be used at temperatures lower than 40F because the rubber compound hardens to something approaching the elasticity of concrete. Snow tires are self explanatory.
I don't know about rubbing with 285's but I do know they're a bitch to mount. 245/40-18 is probably the most popular +0 size because it's abundant.
17" wheels are generally lighter and a significant portion of the mass is slightly closer to the center of rotation giving lower inertia. This improves acceleration, braking and makes it easier to turn the wheel (gyroscopic effect).
All things being equal, I doubt the difference between 17" and 18" wheels would be perceptible to anybody but race car drivers or dedicated track rats. 17" are cheaper and the performance benefit or penalty is negligible if you're on the street.
Your obsession with "correct" is rather odd. "Correct" in this case is subjectively fluid and entirely up to the person paying the money. There's nothing objectively incorrect about your car's wheel/tire setup unless it's causing a problem. Seriously. It's technically and mechanically fine unless you don't want it to be. Sure, it's less than ideal but I'd place a far higher priority on getting the other issues you mentioned resolved.
Some of us prefer things to be correct. We like precision. We like to be thorough. If you don't, that's perfectly fine; for you. Doing things correctly and thoroughly applies to my lifestyle, my profession, and my personal life. Like most things, people don't care unless it effects them directly. The car came like this and I'm fixing it - correcting it. The sidewall is being stretched. That is not subjective, that is fact; objective.
Having been competitive in many forms of racing for the last couple decades, I understand gyroscopic forces. Which are, far more pronounced on bikes. Getting the bike to turn in at 180 MPH is work.
The other issues are not mechanical - they will be addressed as time permits. Such as leaking tail lights, which is apparently a known issues in these cars.
You could have a different tire on each corner. Or drive around indefinitely with a donut spare on the front. Those things would work. But they are not correct.
I want it to be correct, that's all.
On another note, the radio turned off for the first time today.
285/35 would not match perfectly with 255/40. 225/45 would be close but still not perfect. If you want it to be perfect you have to either get all new tires or replace some/all of the wheels.
285/35 would not match perfectly with 255/40. 225/45 would be close but still not perfect. If you want it to be perfect you have to either get all new tires or replace some/all of the wheels.
Right. The tire calculator I used said 295/35/18 matches 255/40/18. I think that's getting a bit silly.
I think I'll replace wheels or swap to the OEM's. Or get all new everything but I think my financial advisor will say no to that.
225/45-18 (26" tire diameter) is the "correct" OEM size. Anything within 3% of that is fine.
Also, different two tires of the same size from different mfrs could be several % off each other.
I appreciate the reminder of what I've already stated, what's in the manual, what's labeled on the car, what I've stated I'm considering, and your convolution of the context of, "correct."
My TL/DR on this is "Explain to wife you need snow tires for safety, and go sell the weird offset stuff in the summer for some summer awesome tires." I've got summer tires on mine, which makes it a pain in the *** to drive, because I thought I bought good all seasons and they turned out to be dogsnot slick summers.
I appreciate the reminder of what I've already stated, what's in the manual, what's labeled on the car, what I've stated I'm considering, and your convolution of the context of, "correct."
I was correcting the other guy who was talking in reference to 255/40.
My TL/DR on this is "Explain to wife you need snow tires for safety, and go sell the weird offset stuff in the summer for some summer awesome tires." I've got summer tires on mine, which makes it a pain in the *** to drive, because I thought I bought good all seasons and they turned out to be dogsnot slick summers.
Yeah, these Kumho tires are pretty slick. It's like drift wars but I'm the only one playing - plinking along in 3rd or 4th at 2k revs and you can spin the tears as much as you like lol.
Which tires did you buy and on what wheels?
Originally Posted by NotAPreppie
I was correcting the other guy who was talking in reference to 255/40.
Uh, I've got some flavor of summer performance falkens on OEM wheels. Up at 5280, I don't make near as much power as I do at sea level so I've got no issues with them breaking loose, even when I'm going full pelt. On the DD I've got Falken 4s's, which, do surprisingly well. The center tread pattern is fairly tight and it does decently in snow. You COULD go for 17x7's (Saab Aero wheels) which should be fairly cheap and throw some Champiro GT's on them for roughly $600 said and done. Champiros aren't bad, and can be studded. Not like you really need a wide tire traction patch in the snow.
Edit - Might be closer to $500 said and done, actually. I'll look. That's a discount tire tire but I'm sure you could find it elsewhere. I had them on the Saab before it died and it did pretty well, if I'm honest.
Last edited by CelestialGryphon; 01-30-2017 at 09:53 AM.
That link isn't letting me view the tire so I'll have to search for it over some coffee.
I think im going to put the OEM wheels on for now and pick up some lighter weight wheels a little later. I looked up he XXR 551's (which is what is in the car) and they are over 23 lbs/wheel.
Maybe I'll get some winters on this car; we'll see.
I've been working on cleaning the plast-dip off of the OEM wheels on my down time. Any tips other than WD40 and brake cleaner?
Definitely get winters if you plan to do any winter driving. 17" winters are cheaper than 18", so if it were me, I'd sell what you got on there outright and get a set of 17"s for winter and stock 18"s on good tires for summer.
01-26-2017, 02:04 PM
