Premix?
 

Okay, this is probably a terrible question but I am yet to own an RX8 despite my endless searching for the right one. I want to get everything down before I do go and buy one however as to maintain it for as long as possible. I see 'premix' everywhere so I'm assuming it's an important thing on our RX's. Can someone just explain what this means, as I said it's probably the stupidest question to be asked but you can never be to sure.
Feel free to flame me as it's probably well deserved! :lol:

If you haven't already I suggest reading through this thread as it has a lot of information for before and after buying.

The short is that premixing is mixing 2-stroke oil with the gas in the gas tank to assist with lubrication of the apex seals. This post goes into a bit further detail about what it is and why it may be needed.

Also here is a 157 page thread about most things premix.

I had a similar question a few days ago and the answer I received was that premixing won't hurt but it won't magically fix anything that was already worn. I was also given the following advice, which helped me since I don't drive my car all the time.

Premix is putting 2 Stroke Oil into your fuel like you do in a chainsaw or other 2 stroke engines.

Use JASO FD oil for the RX-8.

Look into the stickie threads next time and search a little.

Keywords: New Owner, 100$ mods, premix

@Tatsu: modern ester 2 strokes dont seperate from the fuel anymore ... look at Motul 800 i.e. =)

Hasn't been mentioned yet, a superior way to premix on Series 1 RX8s is to use a Sohn adapter which has it's own reservoir of 2 stroke oil that injects clean oil through the OMP bypassing the dirty old motor oil from the engine.
*edit* fwiw technically, I guess this is not considered 'premixing', since it's not going into the gas tank.

Premixing in a S1 is almost a needed thing as the S1 only has 2 oil injectors per rotor only at the sides of the rotor. S2 cars really don't need premix as mazda addressed this problem by adding a 3rd injector at the center of the rotors. There is no real data to prove it helps but allot of us swear by it including my self. Premixing in really a personal thing but the theory in it's use is sound.

I have something to say about what RIWWP said also. I have my premix and have been premixing with Idemitsu. Since i only drive about 10-18 Miles a day, should I stick with the half Oz per gallon? Or maybe do half an OZ per 2 gallons? I only gas up either 4 gallons or 8 gallons at a time.

Okay thanks heaps, all the advice helped there. Sorry again for the terrible question, and yes I did read the New/Potential Owners sticky before I made my first post here and no doubt I will refer back to it when I eventually buy my 8.

Thanks all.

That's good to hear. I just started really digging into the topic myself but I'm leaning towards starting premixing. I just was hesitant after hearing it shouldn't sit.

I haven't read about this yet. It effectively does the same thing as premixing? If it's easier to maintain and provides the same benefits it sounds like the way to go to me.

It's not exactly premixing, but it does have some of the benifits.

Premixing:

• Lubricates seals (from fuel injectors in addition to the OMP)
• Injects premix oil (2 stroke) + OMP oil (4 stroke)

The engine is still injected with oil from the OMP, but the premix provides an additional source of oil as well as a better spread of that oil through the engine. Premixing is for added lubrication.

Shon 2 stroke:

• Lubricates seals (OMP injectors only)
• Injects cleaner burning oil into the engine
• Injects only OMP oil (2 stroke)

The engine is injected only with oil from the OMP (just like if you weren't premixing), but the oil is cleaner burning two stroke. Shon is for cleaner burning.

They are in no way equivalent, and are done for different reasons. The cleanest burning and best lubricating solution would be to premix (for the added lubrication) and the SHON adapter (for the cleaner burning).

No a SOHN is not premixing and even if you do the SOHN you should still premix. SOHN moves the oil intake for the injection to a can or bottle that you install in order to inject clean 2stroke (oil ment to be burned) from the stock sorce of dirty 4 cycle (oil that's not ment to be burned) but doing this still dose not address the problem in S1 cars of only having 2 oil injectors per rotor at each corner of the rotors. S2 cars mazda addressed the lack of oiling on the center of the rotor where the apex seal is by adding a oil injector in center for 3 injectors per rotor. This is the reason for allot of us in S1 cars adding premix and why even after doing a SOHN it's still a good thing to premix.

All good info here, just remember that adding a Sohn system can void your Mazda rotary engine warranty, if you are still under the 2004-2008 8yr/100,000 mile rotary engine warranty.

Mazda can deny any engine replacement warranty claims by saying that bypassing the oem oil metering system's supply caused insufficient lubrication and therefore engine failure. Even though practically speaking this is invalid, it would give Mazda a legal reason to void any engine replacement warranty claim. So add the sohn system for the good it can do, but know that it can affect any engine warranty you may have left.

Idemitsu should stay in solution with the gasoline. A friend and I did our own study on this and tried a few different 2-stoke premixes in an experiment. We added one once of premix into a quart of gasoline (in Mason jars), and let the jars sit on a shelf. The Idemitsu was the only premix that stayed in solution. I forget the other brands that we tried, but I believe they were the typically available two stroke oil you can buy at Wal-Mart.

The Pettit Racing Pro-Tek R premix also is made to stay in solution and its particular formula calls for less total ounces per gallon than the also very good Idemitsu . Interestingly , cost-wise that makes the Idemitsu and Protek-R almost exactly the same cost per recommended ounces per gallon of gas.

Be careful with using the cheaper two-stroke oils available that were not specifically formulated and tested for rotary engines. . They will cost much less than the Idemitsu or Protek-R but some two-stroke oils contain added ingredients not good for the rotary engine internals. Lots of folks like the Wal-Mart brand, but I am not sure if all its ingredients are safe for your rotary internals.

Was any Klotz oil among those tested?

Not that I can remember. The testing happened a few years ago (before I had my RX-8), and my buddy was doing the testing for his use on RX7's (he has a FC and FD). I remember a pensoil in the mix and the Walmart brand (Tech something?). There were a couple others too, but don't remember. I can ask him to get that information though.

EDIT: After talking to my buddy a few corrections......the testing performed was for the solubility of premix in both E85 and regular gasoline (no ethanol). So memory failure on my part. The conclusion was that with E85, Idemitsu was the only premix tested that stayed in solution. For regular gasoline, all of the tested premixes stayed in solution. He remembers the Pennsoil and the Wal-Mart SuperTech brand, but not the other brands.

So the conclusion could be that the addition of Ethanol will increase the likihood of premix to come out of solution, but this was not observed with Idemitsu.

If you are worried about it, just perform a simple test where you put your premix in a glass Mason jar with your gasoline of choice and see what happens with time. This would be a really simple test that anyone has the ability to do. Be sure to seal the jar of course.

The 157 page thread on premixing has some useful info, but a lot of squabbling also.
As mentioned before, the most important thing is to get a JASO or ISO certified low ash oil.
I use Lucas 2 stroke semi- synthetic from O'Reilly's.
I have also used Stihl Ultra synthetic from my local lawn mower dealer.
I think Echo also makes one available at Home Depot or Lowe's.
I mention these simply as an easily attainable alternative to having to order others online.

For a good basic explanation, or very detailed tech breakdowns on the advantages of JASO 2 stroke oils, and why you should never use TCW oils, Seadoo or Polaris websites have excellent articles on it.

Do you really mean E85? Or E10, which is the stuff they sell at most pumps these days?

Ken

E85 is pretty common also. At least around here

But E85 is for flex fuel cars. The 8's not supposed to use anything tainted beyond E10.

Ken

I understand that. Through experimentation with more extreme examples you can sometimes see shortcomings that aren't as evident in the common examples (possibly because of small sample size). It isn't perfect though. That's why he postulated that higher concentrations of ethanol could make the premix fall out of solution.

If he just did plain gas and didn't compare it to anything then he likely would have surmised that the solubility was the same in all premixes.

Sure. Like feeding 1000 Twinkies a day to lab rats to see if there's any effect, while in real life a lab rat isn't going to eat more than one or two. I was just wondering if that was his intent. As he points out, the test is easy enough for anyone to repeat with particular samples of gas.

Ken

The Wal-Mart brand burns clean and ash free also. The owner of Banzai Racing gave me a couple bottles of this oil when I picked up my car and told me to use (1) 8 once bottle to every fill up. He stocks this at his shop and said not to waste my money on more expensive premix oils.
Coming from someone that has built my last 2 engines in my 7 & 8 and has been building rotary engines for the last 20 years.
I honestly don't think he would recommend an oil that could potentially cause him warranty issues with his rebuilds.

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Good to know since many are using the Wal-Mart brand. From my modified RX racing days I have used the Protek-R so I am most confident sticking with that. But if you can save some money over the Idemitsu and Protek-R WITHOUT hurting your engine then best to you all.

I did mean E85. My friend was considering tuning his single turbo FD on E85 and was doing research on possible issues to the system.

What flavor of Wal-Mart premix? I looked on their site and found one type for a bit over $12 per gallon, but others for up to 5 or 6 times that.

Ken