Performance Questions
02-01-2019, 12:48 AM
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Performance Questions
I will bold all questions if you would like to just answer those and not read my entire post
Start by saying completely wrong place hopefully someone helpful will see this. I cant post anywhere else so ill just post here and hope for the best.
Okay i have read multiple forum threads and im not very good at searching being new to all of forum searching and haven't mastered the art. I've read the long post all about getting performance out of an 8 and it was really helpful will post for some of the other new people here at bottom of page. Just have a few more questions about it all.
I have done a ton of research as my first car was my 8 and have been in love it since the day i have purchased it 2 years ago. Im about to buy another one as more of a track car but also a mediocre street car(using that very lite as I'm not to worry about that aspect of it) as it will be the one i take with me down to college. Where im going to college at is surrounded by race tracks and by a ton of racing teams. So i would like my project car to be with me rather than my strict daily. I won't be driving a lot down there so the daily driver aspect doesn't concern me really.
I would like to try and push as close to 250whp NA as i can get I've read that can be a huge pain in the butt to get NA. I have a buddy going down there with me in a sr20det 240sx pushing about 225whp. And im trying to learn everything i can about squeaking as much power out of the 8 to keep up with him in role races. Digs i got stock just cause my favorite mod of driver mod. Roles he pulls hard on me.
Engine Questions
Should I get a streetport? Ive gotten so many conflicting answers on this questions from so much searching. Some people say yes. I understand you can't port the engine as much as the rx7s which is why I'm considering buying an Fc over another 8. I would rather not as I love the 8 platform more than the rx7s. But gains are gains i dont mind spending money on something I love. So could someone give about how much this would yield if any and it is a complete waste of money anything above 10hp i wouldnt consider a waste to me so keep that in mind while grilling me for wasting money getting an engine ported for an extra 10hp.
Exhuast Questions
I've already settled on getting the same HKS single exit exhaust I have on my 8 now for this one i love the tone it produces and the best sounding one I've seen around. Also i think ive settled on the cat removal pipe i want to buy but would like more suggestions from people. So please leave any you have. What headers should I get? noise is no concern to me as my state that the vehicle would be register doesnt have any regulations on this stuff and seen much much louder cars than my 8 get by so dont worry about any of that. Would removing all these sensors throw codes that would put the car into a limp mode or anything? If so would mazdaedit allow me to get rid of these codes? i will end up clearing all these codes eventually anyways but would like to know more for should i be concerned about my car just not working.
Pulleys
What is the advantage of these? I have seen many people say the free up a little horsepower by making them smaller but wouldn't that be bad for the things it gives less power to? Like the altenator/waterpump? Just a small question and more looking for personal experience on this
Intake
I've pondered this question a lot. A lot of people say stick with stock intake others say go CAI. If i go with a cold air intake and force more air into said intake by induction lines and/or a custom hood scoop that forces air into the intake could i tune more power out of this rather than people just saying its a useless mod? I have always believe that just putting on a cold air intake does nothing unless more air can be forced to travel through it so i would be willing to make lines that stictly push more air through the intake. Just a question i ponder a lot. As i see more people just writing it off rather than doing it. More cold air into the engine had to be better with a good tuner to make power. This one might just be me being ignorant about it.
Tuners
Anyone know good rotary tuners around the louisville kentucky area? I could easily search this one up i know but might as well ask it while im making this post.
Weight reduction
If the stock car weighs around 3050 i would like to drop the car about 250lbs to try and sneak by with around an even 2800. I've got around 150lbs of weight savings right now that ive figured up. From removing both leather seats and putting in 2 bucket seats, all the road assistant stuff spare tire and jack, removing the rear seat, carpeting/soundproofing and destroying my hearing(guess ill pack earplugs everywhere i go), some lighter wheels and tires, flywheel, and all AC components cant think of anything else to really remove but anything helps.
Oil metering pump
Should i leave this and go with a separate reservoir to pump to stroke engine oil? Or strictly premix the car? still kind of bouncing back and forth on this one so please give me opinions.
Fuel
And finally my last point of the post fuel. Can i run e85 on stock lines? Or do i need to replace all the lines? or will e85 not even give me an increase in power there are 5 e85 stations around my college withing 5-10 miles of where ill be living so the gas pump finding is not a problem. If i do go e85 will i need a standalone ecu? Or will mazdaedit be sufficient to do it?
to anyone who read the entire post thank you. And thank you to anyone who gives any information and help at all.
link to what to read before doing any power to the vehicle.
https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-forum-197/newbies-guide-modding-rx-8-a-233937/
Start by saying completely wrong place hopefully someone helpful will see this. I cant post anywhere else so ill just post here and hope for the best.
Okay i have read multiple forum threads and im not very good at searching being new to all of forum searching and haven't mastered the art. I've read the long post all about getting performance out of an 8 and it was really helpful will post for some of the other new people here at bottom of page. Just have a few more questions about it all.
I have done a ton of research as my first car was my 8 and have been in love it since the day i have purchased it 2 years ago. Im about to buy another one as more of a track car but also a mediocre street car(using that very lite as I'm not to worry about that aspect of it) as it will be the one i take with me down to college. Where im going to college at is surrounded by race tracks and by a ton of racing teams. So i would like my project car to be with me rather than my strict daily. I won't be driving a lot down there so the daily driver aspect doesn't concern me really.
I would like to try and push as close to 250whp NA as i can get I've read that can be a huge pain in the butt to get NA. I have a buddy going down there with me in a sr20det 240sx pushing about 225whp. And im trying to learn everything i can about squeaking as much power out of the 8 to keep up with him in role races. Digs i got stock just cause my favorite mod of driver mod. Roles he pulls hard on me.
Engine Questions
Should I get a streetport? Ive gotten so many conflicting answers on this questions from so much searching. Some people say yes. I understand you can't port the engine as much as the rx7s which is why I'm considering buying an Fc over another 8. I would rather not as I love the 8 platform more than the rx7s. But gains are gains i dont mind spending money on something I love. So could someone give about how much this would yield if any and it is a complete waste of money anything above 10hp i wouldnt consider a waste to me so keep that in mind while grilling me for wasting money getting an engine ported for an extra 10hp.
Exhuast Questions
I've already settled on getting the same HKS single exit exhaust I have on my 8 now for this one i love the tone it produces and the best sounding one I've seen around. Also i think ive settled on the cat removal pipe i want to buy but would like more suggestions from people. So please leave any you have. What headers should I get? noise is no concern to me as my state that the vehicle would be register doesnt have any regulations on this stuff and seen much much louder cars than my 8 get by so dont worry about any of that. Would removing all these sensors throw codes that would put the car into a limp mode or anything? If so would mazdaedit allow me to get rid of these codes? i will end up clearing all these codes eventually anyways but would like to know more for should i be concerned about my car just not working.
Pulleys
What is the advantage of these? I have seen many people say the free up a little horsepower by making them smaller but wouldn't that be bad for the things it gives less power to? Like the altenator/waterpump? Just a small question and more looking for personal experience on this
Intake
I've pondered this question a lot. A lot of people say stick with stock intake others say go CAI. If i go with a cold air intake and force more air into said intake by induction lines and/or a custom hood scoop that forces air into the intake could i tune more power out of this rather than people just saying its a useless mod? I have always believe that just putting on a cold air intake does nothing unless more air can be forced to travel through it so i would be willing to make lines that stictly push more air through the intake. Just a question i ponder a lot. As i see more people just writing it off rather than doing it. More cold air into the engine had to be better with a good tuner to make power. This one might just be me being ignorant about it.
Tuners
Anyone know good rotary tuners around the louisville kentucky area? I could easily search this one up i know but might as well ask it while im making this post.
Weight reduction
If the stock car weighs around 3050 i would like to drop the car about 250lbs to try and sneak by with around an even 2800. I've got around 150lbs of weight savings right now that ive figured up. From removing both leather seats and putting in 2 bucket seats, all the road assistant stuff spare tire and jack, removing the rear seat, carpeting/soundproofing and destroying my hearing(guess ill pack earplugs everywhere i go), some lighter wheels and tires, flywheel, and all AC components cant think of anything else to really remove but anything helps.
Oil metering pump
Should i leave this and go with a separate reservoir to pump to stroke engine oil? Or strictly premix the car? still kind of bouncing back and forth on this one so please give me opinions.
Fuel
And finally my last point of the post fuel. Can i run e85 on stock lines? Or do i need to replace all the lines? or will e85 not even give me an increase in power there are 5 e85 stations around my college withing 5-10 miles of where ill be living so the gas pump finding is not a problem. If i do go e85 will i need a standalone ecu? Or will mazdaedit be sufficient to do it?
to anyone who read the entire post thank you. And thank you to anyone who gives any information and help at all.
link to what to read before doing any power to the vehicle.
https://www.rx8club.com/new-member-forum-197/newbies-guide-modding-rx-8-a-233937/
02-01-2019, 01:32 AM
#2
i cant really answer any of these questions foe you in a satisfactory way but what i can help with is searching. if you type into google the following phrase: site:rx8club.com then add whatever your searching for it will only give you links to whats on the forum
02-01-2019, 06:00 AM
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TLDR:
Since this is your first post I'll go ahead and tell you that all of those questions have been answered here...many times...(hint use the search feature on this site)
Read the new owners thread, then read it 12 more times No, really read this!
Since this is your first post I'll go ahead and tell you that all of those questions have been answered here...many times...(hint use the search feature on this site)
Read the new owners thread, then read it 12 more times No, really read this!
02-01-2019, 07:56 AM
#6
You're not going to get 250whp. Mazda maxed the engine out, there isn't much left on the table.
Do not get headers, this engine has no overlap so headers don't matter. There is a thread about this.
Do not get a CAI because the car already has one. You may find 1-2 whp by going Racing Beat or Mazda speed but it's not super worth the money. Ram-air effects with hood scoops and all that don't kick in until like 100mph.
Do not go E85, that makes no sense unless you're running boost.
Do not get pulleys they don't do anything useful.
Do not street port, there is no benefit from this in the Renesis. The exhaust port is the problem, not the intake, and there is very little you can do about that.
Leave the OMP, but do run 2-stroke and premix. And increase the oil injection rate via a tuner like Mazda Edit.
Lightened flywheel, wheels and good tires are all good ideas that could give you an advantage over that SR20. Until he turns up the boost
I'd also make sure your ignition is in good health and the engine has good compression. Those thing will lose you power.
Do not get headers, this engine has no overlap so headers don't matter. There is a thread about this.
Do not get a CAI because the car already has one. You may find 1-2 whp by going Racing Beat or Mazda speed but it's not super worth the money. Ram-air effects with hood scoops and all that don't kick in until like 100mph.
Do not go E85, that makes no sense unless you're running boost.
Do not get pulleys they don't do anything useful.
Do not street port, there is no benefit from this in the Renesis. The exhaust port is the problem, not the intake, and there is very little you can do about that.
Leave the OMP, but do run 2-stroke and premix. And increase the oil injection rate via a tuner like Mazda Edit.
Lightened flywheel, wheels and good tires are all good ideas that could give you an advantage over that SR20. Until he turns up the boost
I'd also make sure your ignition is in good health and the engine has good compression. Those thing will lose you power.
02-01-2019, 09:34 AM
#7
Water Foul
Some comments inline below.
I will bold all questions if you would like to just answer those and not read my entire post
I would like to try and push as close to 250whp NA . Probably not happening. 230WHP is the theoretical limit, assuming you do everything exactly right.
Engine Questions
Should I get a streetport? No idea. You need to really research this question. There is some power to be had, if done properly, but there are many trade-offs, including reduced side seal longevity and difficulty holding idle, etc.
Exhuast Questions
Cat Removal Pipe
If you want a resonated pipe, BHR's is the only one that won't blow out its packing. It is also very well made and sounds good. If you don't want a resonator, prepare to hear your brain bleed. But read on about the header...
What headers should I get?
Aftermarket headers add very little power, but do add a lot of heat and noise. There is power to be had from the header, but you have to make your own or check out BHR's long tube header.If you do it, you want to go 3" all the way back. I do not know how much power a proper exhaust system adds. Expect maybe 10HP.
Would removing all these sensors throw codes that would put the car into a limp mode or anything? If so would mazdaedit allow me to get rid of these codes?
Codes will be thrown. You can mask them with tuning software.
Pulleys
What is the advantage of these?
Almost no advantage. There is not enough beginning mass on a pulley to create a delta large enough to yield much power. If you remove the AC compressor, you stand to gain maybe 5HP.
Intake
Not really worth doing. The stock airbox is not restrictive and IS a CAI. You might get 3HP, or you might lose 3HP. Any power comes at the cost of potential for less stable idle or water ingestion. There is no such thing as passive ram air. You cannot create enough positive pressure to overcome backpressure under atmospheric conditions without a compressor.
Tuners
Anyone know good rotary tuners around the louisville kentucky area? Nope.
Weight reduction
This is your best bet for improving your power to weight ratio.
Oil metering pump
Should i leave this and go with a separate reservoir to pump to stroke engine oil? Or strictly premix the car? There is some evidence the Sohn adapter is beneficial for street driving, but gravity feed does not provide enough pressure for adequate lubrication for track driving. I do not know how much evidence.
Fuel
There are several threads dealing with E85. Best bet is to seek them out. You normally need a fuel pump and injectors in addition to the tune. No idea if the lines are adequate for the flow. Also no idea if the stock ECU can scale.
I would like to try and push as close to 250whp NA . Probably not happening. 230WHP is the theoretical limit, assuming you do everything exactly right.
Engine Questions
Should I get a streetport? No idea. You need to really research this question. There is some power to be had, if done properly, but there are many trade-offs, including reduced side seal longevity and difficulty holding idle, etc.
Exhuast Questions
Cat Removal Pipe
If you want a resonated pipe, BHR's is the only one that won't blow out its packing. It is also very well made and sounds good. If you don't want a resonator, prepare to hear your brain bleed. But read on about the header...
What headers should I get?
Aftermarket headers add very little power, but do add a lot of heat and noise. There is power to be had from the header, but you have to make your own or check out BHR's long tube header.If you do it, you want to go 3" all the way back. I do not know how much power a proper exhaust system adds. Expect maybe 10HP.
Would removing all these sensors throw codes that would put the car into a limp mode or anything? If so would mazdaedit allow me to get rid of these codes?
Codes will be thrown. You can mask them with tuning software.
Pulleys
What is the advantage of these?
Almost no advantage. There is not enough beginning mass on a pulley to create a delta large enough to yield much power. If you remove the AC compressor, you stand to gain maybe 5HP.
Intake
Not really worth doing. The stock airbox is not restrictive and IS a CAI. You might get 3HP, or you might lose 3HP. Any power comes at the cost of potential for less stable idle or water ingestion. There is no such thing as passive ram air. You cannot create enough positive pressure to overcome backpressure under atmospheric conditions without a compressor.
Tuners
Anyone know good rotary tuners around the louisville kentucky area? Nope.
Weight reduction
This is your best bet for improving your power to weight ratio.
Oil metering pump
Should i leave this and go with a separate reservoir to pump to stroke engine oil? Or strictly premix the car? There is some evidence the Sohn adapter is beneficial for street driving, but gravity feed does not provide enough pressure for adequate lubrication for track driving. I do not know how much evidence.
Fuel
There are several threads dealing with E85. Best bet is to seek them out. You normally need a fuel pump and injectors in addition to the tune. No idea if the lines are adequate for the flow. Also no idea if the stock ECU can scale.
02-01-2019, 11:49 AM
#8
Smoking turbo yay
I know some older NA peripheral ports can supposedly get that kind of WHP, but that's if you are willing to swap that in and sacrifice the ability to daily drive it. You will have to idle at 2000+ RPM, and the idling is supposedly very, very loud.
I talked to one of the guys with an FD, and he says that he has seen some 8 guys waste a bunch of money on NA upgrades for little gains. His consensus is that if you want anything that's considered significant, just turbo it. It will be expensive, but also have much more potential, so it's a better value overall if you are serious about power.
I talked to one of the guys with an FD, and he says that he has seen some 8 guys waste a bunch of money on NA upgrades for little gains. His consensus is that if you want anything that's considered significant, just turbo it. It will be expensive, but also have much more potential, so it's a better value overall if you are serious about power.
Last edited by UnknownJinX; 02-01-2019 at 01:02 PM.
02-02-2019, 02:59 AM
#9
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I talked to one of the guys with an FD, and he says that he has seen some 8 guys waste a bunch of money on NA upgrades for little gains. His consensus is that if you want anything that's considered significant, just turbo it. It will be expensive, but also have much more potential, so it's a better value overall if you are serious about power.[/QUOTE]
yea I've thought about turboing it. For me turbos just add some unnecessary reliability issues with more parts that can fail that i don't want to deal with if i was going for more power than just 250 i would because then i could justify turboing the car but I'm not. With a NA engine i haven't added anything that could fail that isnt already going to be on the car
Based on the responses i am getting i probably wont buy another 8 and will get an fc a turbo 2 swap it
yea I've thought about turboing it. For me turbos just add some unnecessary reliability issues with more parts that can fail that i don't want to deal with if i was going for more power than just 250 i would because then i could justify turboing the car but I'm not. With a NA engine i haven't added anything that could fail that isnt already going to be on the car
Based on the responses i am getting i probably wont buy another 8 and will get an fc a turbo 2 swap it
02-02-2019, 10:08 AM
#11
Water Foul
I know some older NA peripheral ports can supposedly get that kind of WHP, but that's if you are willing to swap that in and sacrifice the ability to daily drive it. You will have to idle at 2000+ RPM, and the idling is supposedly very, very loud.
I talked to one of the guys with an FD, and he says that he has seen some 8 guys waste a bunch of money on NA upgrades for little gains. His consensus is that if you want anything that's considered significant, just turbo it. It will be expensive, but also have much more potential, so it's a better value overall if you are serious about power.
I talked to one of the guys with an FD, and he says that he has seen some 8 guys waste a bunch of money on NA upgrades for little gains. His consensus is that if you want anything that's considered significant, just turbo it. It will be expensive, but also have much more potential, so it's a better value overall if you are serious about power.
02-02-2019, 01:32 PM
#12
Smoking turbo yay
yea I've thought about turboing it. For me turbos just add some unnecessary reliability issues with more parts that can fail that i don't want to deal with if i was going for more power than just 250 i would because then i could justify turboing the car but I'm not. With a NA engine i haven't added anything that could fail that isnt already going to be on the car
Based on the responses i am getting i probably wont buy another 8 and will get an fc a turbo 2 swap it
Based on the responses i am getting i probably wont buy another 8 and will get an fc a turbo 2 swap it
I did forget one way to possibly get 250 WHP with an NA Renesis: Nitrous. Of course, that has ongoing cost.
In the earlier days of this site, people would install all the best bolt-ons and go to dyno days to check their gains. Many, if not most, left disappointed. Quite a few actually lost power. Fortunately, I had them go before me, so I did not have to learn the lesson with my own $$. I put my investment into improving grip instead.
Personally, I am not considering turbo for many reasons(I don't like lag, not enough cash at this point, Vancouver VI fiasco, etc.), so I am just accepting how fast the 8 is capable of, which isn't all that bad.
02-02-2019, 01:36 PM
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[QUOTE=UnknownJinX;4880264]Turbo shouldn't give you reliability issues if it's done correctly. It's been done before. Make sure you find a good shop and don't cut corners on parts(so no eBay turbos).
https://www.rx8performance.com/products/rx-8performanceturbokit
this is the turbo kit i was looking at rather than having to custom fab the whole thing and piece parts together. Tell me what you guys think
https://www.rx8performance.com/products/rx-8performanceturbokit
this is the turbo kit i was looking at rather than having to custom fab the whole thing and piece parts together. Tell me what you guys think
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