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Oil Injector Re-Use?
All,
Need some quick help here, I thought I was awesome by putting 90 psi through my oil injectors to clean em out... Well, I just noticed they have a vacuum spec so they should act like a 1 way valve. I have no vac hold on any of the 4, but they sure look pretty. How important is the vac, do I need to order 4 new injectors? Any cheap source for em? They have 88k on em. Also I was looking at a parts manual and found the numbers for these to be N3H114631A and N3H114631B (on some websites). I have an 04. Is there any difference? Sorry I'm posting to the new user forum, I dont have access to the good stuff yet. Thanks, Shawn |
Well I can't comment on the function or where to get them cheap, but one of mine was damaged in a moment of stupid, and I ordered the B variant. Since mine is an 05 I asked my parts guy what the difference was (and to check my VIN to make sure I got one the same as the other 3) and he told me they were listed for all years of the S1. Order new crush washers as well.
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Originally Posted by ZiG
(Post 4756347)
for all years of the S1.
Shawn |
New ones are always best, but you can clean them. There are check valves in the fittings. Recently I removed the 4 oil injectors on my 8, and cleaned them by letting them soak in carb cleaner for half a day. After 100k the nozzles looked clean, but not the check valves. I didn't think it was a "fun" project , but I'm really glad I did it. Maintaining cleanliness to prevent dirt ingress and such was the most worrisome part for me. Beware of the air manifold splitter "thing". During replacement of oil injector air hoses I broke off 3 out of the 4 nipples. (in addition to breaking all the injector hoses.....) This black plastic piece connects a larger diameter air tube coming off the accordion and splits into 4 ports for each of the oil injector lines. The 4 ports are connected to the oil injectors with small diameter vacuum line. With age and heat cycling it can become brittle.
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Originally Posted by StarSpinner
(Post 4756423)
New ones are always best, but you can clean them. There are check valves in the fittings. Recently I removed the 4 oil injectors on my 8, and cleaned them by letting them soak in carb cleaner for half a day. After 100k the nozzles looked clean, but not the check valves. I didn't think it was a "fun" project , but I'm really glad I did it. Maintaining cleanliness to prevent dirt ingress and such was the most worrisome part for me. Beware of the air manifold splitter "thing". During replacement of oil injector air hoses I broke off 3 out of the 4 nipples. (in addition to breaking all the injector hoses.....) This black plastic piece connects a larger diameter air tube coming off the accordion and splits into 4 ports for each of the oil injector lines. The 4 ports are connected to the oil injectors with small diameter vacuum line. With age and heat cycling it can become brittle.
Yea I busted the manifold... part of the order :/ |
You could always look for a used set.
I elected to use gasoline to clean/check mine. I filled a syringe and pressed the tip into the hose. Slowly running gas into it would produce a steady stream out the tip, and giving it a more rapid jolt would cause it to come out the side holes too. Then I would blow through the vac port to clear the gas out before reassembly. I wish I knew how to actually check them, but perhaps you could try that on yours and see if they behave in a similar way? If they do it doesn't necessarily mean they are okay, but if nothing at all comes out, that MAY be cause for concern? edit: I have a broken one sitting right here. I'm going to cut it up for science, see if I can figure out how they are supposed to work. |
Originally Posted by ZiG
(Post 4756445)
You could always look for a used set.
I elected to use gasoline to clean/check mine. I filled a syringe and pressed the tip into the hose. Slowly running gas into it would produce a steady stream out the tip, and giving it a more rapid jolt would cause it to come out the side holes too. Then I would blow through the vac port to clear the gas out before reassembly. I wish I knew how to actually check them, but perhaps you could try that on yours and see if they behave in a similar way? If they do it doesn't necessarily mean they are okay, but if nothing at all comes out, that MAY be cause for concern? edit: I have a broken one sitting right here. I'm going to cut it up for science, see if I can figure out how they are supposed to work. I'd love to know what the check valve is made of... it would help with cleaning... there was a cut up one posted on one of the forums here, but I wasnt able to really get a feel for what it was made of. I'll edit this post if I find the link. The manual states: Oil Nozzle Inspection 1. Remove the oil nozzle. 2. Connect a vacuum pump to oil nozzle A, and apply negative pressure while checking the pressure value on the pressure gauge. If the maximum value of the negative pressure is less than 66.5 kPa {0.68 kgf/cm2, 9.65 psi}, replace the oil nozzle. https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...2a4f791f50.jpg Oil Nozzle Test |
Originally Posted by s-rx8
(Post 4756447)
I'll edit this post if I find the link.
https://www.rx8club.com/series-i-maj...lution-249315/ |
Yikes. Well, it seems to be some sort of plastic. The little red bit is rubber or similar. It kind of fell apart as I cut (was cutting it lengthwise) but I guess a lot of pressure/flow could have done it in. I do recall trying to blow into the tips of mine while they were out and not getting anything. I don't own a vacuum tester though. Amazingly.
In any case if yours aren't holding vacuum that probably means they're banjaxed and I'd be looking to replace them. I think next weekend I'm finally buying a vac tester and checking mine. Thanks for giving me another thing to worry about. :P Oh, and cut yours open if you do replace 'em, see how far down that rubber piece went, lol |
Originally Posted by ZiG
(Post 4756450)
Yikes. Well, it seems to be some sort of plastic. The little red bit is rubber or similar. It kind of fell apart as I cut (was cutting it lengthwise) but I guess a lot of pressure/flow could have done it in. I do recall trying to blow into the tips of mine while they were out and not getting anything. I don't own a vacuum tester though. Amazingly.
In any case if yours aren't holding vacuum that probably means they're banjaxed and I'd be looking to replace them. I think next weekend I'm finally buying a vac tester and checking mine. Thanks for giving me another thing to worry about. :P Plastic or rubber would explain my leaks. I have 2 vac testers if you are anywhere near S Florida. If I understand it right, the best way to clean em would be a vac to the top and a flow from the banjo ports down to the tips, but carb cleaner would be a big no no if rubber (usually). Blah... there goes a good chunk of paycheck. Thanks for the info, Shawn |
Is it like a plastic ball?
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Originally Posted by StarSpinner
(Post 4756650)
Is it like a plastic ball?
-Shawn |
2 Attachment(s)
Haha, no, the rubber part got away from me while cutting but it looks like it would have been a flat disc that has a little nub coming out the top to hold it in place. The other, hard plastic part, has one hole in the middle for the nub to fit through and then several (4?) smaller holes arranged in a circle where the air passes through (or doesn't).
Ignore the mess/random brass rod in the vice.. Attachment 286825 This pic shows the top of the nub that I broke off intentionally. Little red thing on the left. Attachment 286826 |
Awesome documentation! And that is NASTY. What does the rest of the engine look like?
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Originally Posted by ZiG
(Post 4756670)
Awesome documentation! And that is NASTY. What does the rest of the engine look like?
-Shawn |
Good to hear. That's a similar path to what I did, but mine had been sitting two years and came home on a hook.
One more piece of advice then, speaking from experience. Plenty of idiots smash the engine against the ECU box during install and break the OMP position sensor. I'm one of them. It's 2 bolts, just take the fking sensor off before you put the engine in. The sensor is not sold separately and can be a major PITA to source a replacement. Good luck with the rest of the build. It's totally worth it! |
Originally Posted by ZiG
(Post 4756675)
One more piece of advice then, speaking from experience. Plenty of idiots smash the engine against the ECU box during install and break the OMP position sensor. I'm one of them. It's 2 bolts, just take the fking sensor off before you put the engine in. The sensor is not sold separately and can be a major PITA to source a replacement.
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Awesome pics! really enjoyed reviewing the images. I can't imagine carb cleaner is going to do that red plastic part any good. I'd like to know if it's viton or some derivative. Thanks for going through the effort of taking it apart and photo documenting it.
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Originally Posted by StarSpinner
(Post 4756679)
Awesome pics! really enjoyed reviewing the images. I can't imagine carb cleaner is going to do that red plastic part any good. I'd like to know if it's viton or some derivative. Thanks for going through the effort of taking it apart and photo documenting it.
-Shawn |
Problem is the particle size had to be small enough to make it out the nozzle, and I'm not sure about that. What about soaking in gasoline or kerosene?
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Originally Posted by ZiG
(Post 4756721)
Problem is the particle size had to be small enough to make it out the nozzle, and I'm not sure about that. What about soaking in gasoline or kerosene?
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So, if the red flexible seal deforms, cracks, or does not seat correctly due to debris does this mean air can potentially enter into the oil line?
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I think it's the exact opposite; oil can enter the air line. Instead of going into the engine.
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Originally Posted by StarSpinner
(Post 4756878)
So, if the red flexible seal deforms, cracks, or does not seat correctly due to debris does this mean air can potentially enter into the oil line?
Case two: if you have a clog at the bottom tip of the injector, now the oil from OMP will go into the intake manifold vac line (knowing you have 0 to some negative atmospheric pressure). Case three: The oil injector tip is exposed to a (rotor housing) vacuum stroke and a compression stroke (I think, someone correct me if im wrong). So with an unclogged injector, during vacuum, the rubber seal should flex down allowing the seal to happen and oil is injected into the chamber from the banjo ports. A leak would lessen that and not being sure of the oil pressure coming from OMP, you would hope its high enough to go in two pathways, one, out the nozzle into the chamber, two, partially into the intake manifold. Case four: During the compression stroke, I'd think the oil coming from the banjo would go only one way, into the intake (with a busted seal). So if the seal was in tact, it would halt that from happening. Being the nozzle is so small, the compression pressure and volume I would hope is less than the banjo pressure and volume... open for question. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.rx8...a6f1f46e50.jpg |
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