My Rx8 won't Start after Flywheel/Clutch install
11-29-2014, 09:24 PM
#1
Registered
Thread Starter
My Rx8 won't Start after Flywheel/Clutch install
Hi guys, I've been trying to find answers to my problem but haven't had any luck.
I recently took on a DIY project after my clutch went to ****. I purchased and installed RacingBeats Aluminum Flywheel, and Exedy stage 1 clutch kit. I messed up my pilot bearing seal so I ordered a new one from pineapple racing.
Today I was able to man handle the transmission on forcefully because I am limited on tools and a tranny jack is on the list of tools I do not have. I put everything together and gave it a start. At first try it sounded like it wanted to turn but quit and started to make the clicking sound. I thought maybe the battery died so I gave it a jump and tried again. Over and over all I heard was a clicking sound. I know I had good charge so I have no idea what it could be.
I also took the starter back off to see if the teeth just didnt align but I don't think that was the problem. I couldn't move the flywheel and clutch much through the service hole with a screw driver so I'm not sure if that means anything. Please and thank u for the help. This is really frustrating the **** outta me.
I recently took on a DIY project after my clutch went to ****. I purchased and installed RacingBeats Aluminum Flywheel, and Exedy stage 1 clutch kit. I messed up my pilot bearing seal so I ordered a new one from pineapple racing.
Today I was able to man handle the transmission on forcefully because I am limited on tools and a tranny jack is on the list of tools I do not have. I put everything together and gave it a start. At first try it sounded like it wanted to turn but quit and started to make the clicking sound. I thought maybe the battery died so I gave it a jump and tried again. Over and over all I heard was a clicking sound. I know I had good charge so I have no idea what it could be.
I also took the starter back off to see if the teeth just didnt align but I don't think that was the problem. I couldn't move the flywheel and clutch much through the service hole with a screw driver so I'm not sure if that means anything. Please and thank u for the help. This is really frustrating the **** outta me.
11-30-2014, 04:54 AM
#2
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 240 Likes
on
110 Posts
If you are hearing rapid clicking, that is the starter relay opening and closing rapidly.
If you hear an electric motor whining under strain, than that would be the starter motor trying to turn, but being unable to
If you hear a high speed electric motor, then the starter is spinning but not engaging the flywheel.
A better way to verify that the engine can still rotate is to get a 19 or 21mm socket (I forget which) with a breaker bar and use that on the big bolt in the center of the front main pulley. It will have easy and hard points of rotation depending on where in the compression cycle you have a rotor, but it will be far easier than trying to leverage the flywheel ring gear with a screwdriver.
This sounds electrical though. Did you reconnect both cables on the starter? The main power cable under the 12mm nut, and the smaller wire with the black clip? Did you resecure the battery cables properly?
If you hear an electric motor whining under strain, than that would be the starter motor trying to turn, but being unable to
If you hear a high speed electric motor, then the starter is spinning but not engaging the flywheel.
A better way to verify that the engine can still rotate is to get a 19 or 21mm socket (I forget which) with a breaker bar and use that on the big bolt in the center of the front main pulley. It will have easy and hard points of rotation depending on where in the compression cycle you have a rotor, but it will be far easier than trying to leverage the flywheel ring gear with a screwdriver.
This sounds electrical though. Did you reconnect both cables on the starter? The main power cable under the 12mm nut, and the smaller wire with the black clip? Did you resecure the battery cables properly?
11-30-2014, 06:41 AM
#3
Registered
Thread Starter
It's definitely a rapid clicking sound whenever I try to start the car. I have the starter connected yes.
I will try rotating the main pulley today to see if my flywheel/clutch is jammed.
I will try rotating the main pulley today to see if my flywheel/clutch is jammed.
11-30-2014, 01:36 PM
#5
Registered
Thread Starter
Update
Alright so I took a 19mm and tried moving the main pulley from the front of the engine and wasn't successful. Not sure if it should move or is it normal for it to not. I have a charger on the car battery right now, tried starting it again but still hearing that clicking and no turning. I'll check the wires on the starter to make sure they are clean and properly fastened
11-30-2014, 02:38 PM
#8
Registered
Thread Starter
Updare
just tested starter and battery. Starter teeth aren't pushing out all the way. And after a few tests it would occasionally not even push out just spin. The battery was also dead and only held a 49% charge. I'm purchasing a new starter and battery right now and I'll try starting the car again. I'll let u know in an hour
11-30-2014, 05:40 PM
#10
Registered
Thread Starter
New starter and still no starting
alright so I installed the new starter and had the battery charged instead of buying a new one and I'm still not being able to start my car. The clicking is different now. When I turn the Key, I hear one click and then nothing. I've repeated this a few times till the battery got low and the clicking turned into rapid clicks. To me it sounds like the starter can't turn the flywheel. Anyone got a solution?
11-30-2014, 05:49 PM
#11
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 240 Likes
on
110 Posts
A starter that is spinning but not engaging the flywheel is very high pitch, like an electric drill's noise
A starter that is engaging the flywheel and straining but can't move is going tob e a much lower frequency, although still electric in nature, and it's going to sound very strained.
If all you are hearing is a click, power isn't even getting to the starter, and it's not turning.
The click is the starter relay.
Did you mess up the clutch interlock switch on the clutch pedal? Try turning the key without your foot on the clutch pedal, and then with the pedal the whole way down. Does it sound different? (it should)
A starter that is engaging the flywheel and straining but can't move is going tob e a much lower frequency, although still electric in nature, and it's going to sound very strained.
If all you are hearing is a click, power isn't even getting to the starter, and it's not turning.
The click is the starter relay.
Did you mess up the clutch interlock switch on the clutch pedal? Try turning the key without your foot on the clutch pedal, and then with the pedal the whole way down. Does it sound different? (it should)
11-30-2014, 05:52 PM
#12
Registered
Just a shot in the dark but pull the shifter and check to see if it's truly in nutral. It's possible you or some one els put it in gear when installing the shifter and now it's out of line. Only other thing I can think of is the clutch or some part of the assembly is in a binde
11-30-2014, 10:05 PM
#13
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
you have two wires on the starter, batt, and solenoid. the solenoid slips on the spade terminal, the batt bolts on the stud at the back of the solenoid. If your hearing a click either your battery post are not clean and making a connection, or you have the same problem at the starter, and the batt wire is not properly connected.
When you turn the key what does the dash lights do? do they flicker if they do your battery is to low to spin the starter. if they don't and your only getting a click then its one of the two I pointed out in the top of this post.
By the way you didn't put any silicone or sealer between the starter and the bell housing, that will cause the starter to not properly ground and give you the same result.
When you turn the key what does the dash lights do? do they flicker if they do your battery is to low to spin the starter. if they don't and your only getting a click then its one of the two I pointed out in the top of this post.
By the way you didn't put any silicone or sealer between the starter and the bell housing, that will cause the starter to not properly ground and give you the same result.
11-30-2014, 11:27 PM
#14
Registered
Thread Starter
Alright so the click sounds like the starter makes connection with the flywheel but can't turn it, but I can be wrong. I will try to post a video tomorrow hopefully capturing the sound. But I've cleaned the battery terminal, cleaned the battery, made sure the connections are clean and on the new starter I plugged it in according to instructions. When I turn the key my lights do flicker, so I agree that it might be a power supply problem. I was going to pull it to a mechanic shop tomorrow and see diagnostics on what might be wrong. I'm also going to take the shifter off to see if it's just outta line. Thank u guys for ur responses I really hope I can get my 8 to work soon :/ Oh and no I didn't put any silicone between the bell housing.
12-01-2014, 08:06 AM
#16
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 240 Likes
on
110 Posts
Incorrect on both points.
The simple fact that you can destroy a clutch from driving with air in the clutch line means that you can start it with air in the line.
And a quick search about transmission alignment will show that people notice alignment problems after they have started driving (which comes after starting the engine).
The simple fact that you can destroy a clutch from driving with air in the clutch line means that you can start it with air in the line.
And a quick search about transmission alignment will show that people notice alignment problems after they have started driving (which comes after starting the engine).
12-01-2014, 08:26 AM
#17
Registered
Since you can't rotate the engine by hand, I'd think something is mechanically jammed. Put Niteshade's transmission check at the top of your list.
You might also try putting in gear - maybe 3rd or 4th - and see what happens if you push it a few feet.
Ken
You might also try putting in gear - maybe 3rd or 4th - and see what happens if you push it a few feet.
Ken
12-01-2014, 01:57 PM
#18
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This is some pretty basic mechanics, not like we're trying to fire up the Mir space station off the bottom of the pacific.
Put the car in neutral can you push the car back or forward with out the engine engaging? Does it roll frealy? If so your in neutral. Put it in first, can you now push the car? No then your in first.
If you can't spin the engine at the pully, and none of the other I mentioned true then what happens when you push the clutch, does it depress and return normal, if not you don't have it on the throw out bearing correct and the clutch isn't disengaging. Is there chance you put the clutch disk in backwards? That could bind it with the clutch disk wedged between the flywheel and the clutch cover. If none of this is correct then try the next.
If the lights on the dash and relays are chattering you don't have the power to spin the starter. Try jump starting it or If you can pull it to a mechanic then I would suggest you get a few friends and try and push start it. My starter ring was slipping on the flywheel. I push started mine by my self for two weeks waiting for parts from the states. Mine will fire on a little more than a bump over from a slow roll.
Put the car in neutral can you push the car back or forward with out the engine engaging? Does it roll frealy? If so your in neutral. Put it in first, can you now push the car? No then your in first.
If you can't spin the engine at the pully, and none of the other I mentioned true then what happens when you push the clutch, does it depress and return normal, if not you don't have it on the throw out bearing correct and the clutch isn't disengaging. Is there chance you put the clutch disk in backwards? That could bind it with the clutch disk wedged between the flywheel and the clutch cover. If none of this is correct then try the next.
If the lights on the dash and relays are chattering you don't have the power to spin the starter. Try jump starting it or If you can pull it to a mechanic then I would suggest you get a few friends and try and push start it. My starter ring was slipping on the flywheel. I push started mine by my self for two weeks waiting for parts from the states. Mine will fire on a little more than a bump over from a slow roll.
Last edited by dxjp; 12-01-2014 at 02:07 PM.
12-01-2014, 11:00 PM
#20
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damn that slipped my mind. You need the counter to get the correct spacing off the eccentric shaft as well all needing it to balance it. without it your flywheel is bolted tight up against the rear plate and bolts.
12-01-2014, 11:52 PM
#21
Incorrect on both points.
The simple fact that you can destroy a clutch from driving with air in the clutch line means that you can start it with air in the line.
And a quick search about transmission alignment will show that people notice alignment problems after they have started driving (which comes after starting the engine).
The simple fact that you can destroy a clutch from driving with air in the clutch line means that you can start it with air in the line.
And a quick search about transmission alignment will show that people notice alignment problems after they have started driving (which comes after starting the engine).
12-02-2014, 05:36 AM
#22
Registered
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 56
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It could be full of air, as long as the peddle drops enough to open the switch it will engage the starter. It's not connected to the throw out Bering it's on the peddle. He could pull the clutch line off the master, have zero pressure on the peddle and still open the switch. He's getting dash chatter that means the switch is opening, so it's a lack of power or one of the following.
Did you use or instal a counterweight. You need one, some kits don't include them they are sold separate. The stock flywheel is balanced and spaced, aftermarket flywheels need the automatic counterweight to space the flywheel and balance the E Shaft.
Is the disc on right are the springs facing the flywheel or the trans
Is the throw out Bering on right? the doughnut looking part sits on the clutch cover fingers. Did you get it connected to the arm withy the hooks? It has to be or the fork is too far back and your clutch will slip.
If you have any doubts pull it apart. If you can't rock the car in neutral like the ebrakes is on then you need to pull it apart. Even if your in gear you should be able to rock the car and hear the engine rotate.
Look at the pick and make sure you have everything orientated correctly, and make sure you have the counterweight installed. The only time you don't use one is with a stock flywheel you mentioned an aluminum flywheel so you will need it.
Did you use or instal a counterweight. You need one, some kits don't include them they are sold separate. The stock flywheel is balanced and spaced, aftermarket flywheels need the automatic counterweight to space the flywheel and balance the E Shaft.
Is the disc on right are the springs facing the flywheel or the trans
Is the throw out Bering on right? the doughnut looking part sits on the clutch cover fingers. Did you get it connected to the arm withy the hooks? It has to be or the fork is too far back and your clutch will slip.
If you have any doubts pull it apart. If you can't rock the car in neutral like the ebrakes is on then you need to pull it apart. Even if your in gear you should be able to rock the car and hear the engine rotate.
Look at the pick and make sure you have everything orientated correctly, and make sure you have the counterweight installed. The only time you don't use one is with a stock flywheel you mentioned an aluminum flywheel so you will need it.
Last edited by dxjp; 12-02-2014 at 05:44 AM.
12-02-2014, 12:24 PM
#23
Registered
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 16,684
Likes: 0
Received 240 Likes
on
110 Posts
But with a system with no hydraulic pressure you wont be able to depress the clutch far enough to overcome the safety feature. Cant start the car if you dont press the clutch right? Also if the alignment of the transmission is in such a way that the t.o bearing could even be unable to put enough pressure on the plate to release. Thats why those go on the checklist. Those were the problems i had when i did my rb flywheel anyway
For example, on both my 8 and my current MSM, I don't push the clutch pedal at all to start the car. ...
(The starter interlock switch on the clutch assembly is bypassed, I just have to make sure it's in neutral before starting so that the car doesn't lurch forward)
So if I don't even push on the clutch pedal, how could the clutch hydraulics possibly make a difference in starting ability? They can't.
Even if the clutch is 100% engaged and you have the car in gear, cranking the engine and turning the starter will actually cause the car to crawl forward. It's actually something that could be useful, such as to pull a car out of an intersection or off the road onto the shoulder, on the starter motor if the combustion engine died and won't refire due to compression loss or another failure.
02-14-2015, 08:18 AM
#24
Registered
Thread Starter
Ok well I should have replied to this after I got the problem solved but I got tired of messing with it so I took the car in to a local mechanic shop. Apparently I didn't align the shaft key to the flywheel and clutch fairly well so I didn't install it flush and caused a jam. Yes my kit came with a counterweight which Ive put on correctly. in the process of putting my transmission on tho I accidentally ruined my neutral park switch (the two white wire attachments on the transmission) thank u to everyone that gave an effort to help me resolve my issue now I'm dealing with other issues that I'm hoping to solve on my own but I might Post about it later if I don't find answers here on the forums or Google which I think I'll be alright seeing as there are many posts I'm sure that relate to my problem
now I'm dealing with other issues that I'm hoping to solve on my own but I might Post about it later if I don't find answers here on the forums or Google which I think I'll be alright seeing as there are many posts I'm sure that relate to my problem
Last edited by KilledKarma; 02-14-2015 at 08:21 AM.
02-14-2015, 10:48 AM
#25
Glad you are rolling...
Google can be a friend, especially when you search for https://www.rx8club.com: what you want to find. Google does a better job of presenting results in a way you are used to seeing them.
Google can be a friend, especially when you search for https://www.rx8club.com: what you want to find. Google does a better job of presenting results in a way you are used to seeing them.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post