Yup I understand. It just seems like there's a lot of venting this week specifically. I wondered if there was a specific catalyst for that or if you guys are all on the same cycle. :lol: Just trying to lighten the mood a little.

I have been in the Army for almost 8 years now and have learned this:

It doesn't pay to be the shining star, the one with the answers, the one who gives a damn about their job or the one who knows how to get things done. At the end of the day; the person next to you that does half as much gets paid the same as you. In the end you might get promoted a little earlier but in the end you work your ass off and gain very little in regards to money or rank. The one thing that truly matters is ones reputation! Your rep in the Army determines where you go and how nice it can be.

Jeff and BHR are in the same boat. You work your ass off for others at your expense and get bitched at by all sorts. The reason RX8 owners seek you out is because of your reputation, which speaks volumes about what you are really about!

It use to really piss me off, however, now when I encounter people or Soldiers like this I just laugh inside because I know that there true colors will show in time and when they do I will be there to kick them the hell out of our unit. This is one of the only times being in HR feels good!

it's because Darth has Jedi training. :D:

Me on the other hand...

Awesome analogy. Sums it up pretty well.

Can't believe no one posted this yet...wait... what the hell happened to the images thing? I can't post images.

^^^:lol: you can only post the image link or attach it in this forum, not display the image in the thread

That's why I went to the Darkside.... unlimited POWER :lol2:

I've allways respected you. Didnt have much to do with you and your doings, however I would respect you even more provided you have a cigar in hand on your porch! I'm just saying.

So what if all those things you say don't pay off, are the very same things that earned you your rep? If you bust your ass, are indeed the shining star, the one with the answers etc., wouldn't that contribute?

I really hate to see statements like that, it's like you're saying "why try?", that's the problem with some people and this country in general, nobody fucking tries anymore, "why should I?" I don't get nothin'?", maybe if people stopped piling on copouts and despair, and got out and made an effort things might not be as they are. (** cough** auto unions** cough**)
Me personally, I can't drive home with a clear conscience and a good feeling unless I've given it my all at a job, so maybe I don't alwayys get noticed, so what, I'm not going to let that stop me from kicking ass and doing a fabulous job, and it shouldn't stop anyone else either.

you missed my point entirely!

my point was that rising to the top is very frustrating and painful, when others around you work half as much and get the same return.

I was not saying not to bust your ass everyday doing whatever. I was pointing out that when you care about what you do it reflects on how others feel about doing business with you, which builds your rep; good or bad.

The people doing good things for the community (RX8 Club), BHR and MM in this case. Are having to deal with the very people that you have an issue with in your above statements.

I too can't look myself in the mirror everyday unless I know that I busted my ass for anyone and everyone that has the pleasure of doing business with me :lol2:

Your points only add to what I was trying to laydown. The ones who care have to work twice as hard with only that extra pat on the back as a reward. To some (MM, BHR) that is enough to keep them going and I am very glad that they do...

Thats enough philosophizing from me.

Darth Out!

kind of reminds me of the mid-90s when there was this one and only guy that made real performance chips for BMWs that some petty idiots always took the wrong way, accused him of being an egotistical a-hole, etc. to the point that they refused to buy anything from him no matter what

so they went and paid several hundred dollars for ECU chips that were known to be nothing more than eliminating the top speed limiter or adding a higher rev limit, but had no power/performance improvement, sometimes even lost power

yeah, they showed him ... :rolleyes: :hahano:

Team posting lolcatz is legendary lulz...

:icon_tup:

No it was missing the button and I couldn't do both for some reason. It was also missing the picture button that had hills and a sun on it....


http://packphour.files.wordpress.com...mmon-sense.jpg

Hmm... I too spent 8 years in the Army, and in no way did I ever come away with the idea of not to strive to be better because the guy next to me is getting paid the same for doing less. I don't know what kind of units you are in, but where I was at (and when I was in charge of my people) I took special notice of the lazy, weak, and know nothings, and when 1SG came looking for shit detail people, guess who were at the top of the list. Those who busted ass and were the stand outs were recognized, just not with with pay. They were the ones we rewarded with awesome assignments, 4-day passes, and other various rewards. The turds always found a way to flush themselves out.

As for MM, seems like a great guy, but I for one will never do business with him. While his work is top notch, his customer service is lacking. When choosing where i do my business I take everything into consideration. As a consumer we have that right, and if you choose to do business with him then you know going in what kind of service you will receive in return. So if the outcome is not to your liking you only have yourself to blame. MM doesn't have to provide the service he does, he chooses to do it and many around here applaud him for the work he does. And i completely agree with him when he gets frustrated with the way people react, its a direct reflection of the state of today's society. Patience is virture that not many have, both customer and vendor alike.

Last I checked, likeability and customer service didn't tune a car properly...skill and experience do.

Customer service is not one of the services I offer.
Sorry.
Feel free to look elsewhere.

You would do the same thing if you were the customer.

Maybe. We're all human, and that means we are all prone to being fools. However, people like myself actively try to avoid being raging delusional idiots who demand unreasonable things from people.

There is a large portion of the population however, who seems to be the polar opposite. Who actually get off on being ignorant sons of bitches who just want to scream gimme gimme gimme, and then call you an asshole when you don't capitulate with their unreasonable, childish, and frequently completely impossible demands.

I still cannot fathom how people like that can go through their life thinking everyone is an asshole but them, and never once pause to think that perhaps it's their own behavior that's causing bad outcomes. Where are your powers of introspection? Were you given a full brain when you really only need a spinal cord?

Hell I just wanna click checkout and receive my product as described. However, if you are buying a service then that is a whole other issue.

I manage over 30 people all ranging from high school drop outs to M.D.'s and teaching customer (patient) service is the hardest thing. If you argue with customers then eventually you will have no customers. Yes they can drive you crazy but its part of the business. It's all about communication.

For example, If a doctor is running and late and my girls just let the patients sit and wait then eventually I am up front trying to calm down and angry patient who has been waiting for a long time. If I direct my girls to explain to the patients when they sign in that the doctor is running late and I tell them to give the patient an option to reschedule then usually I get no complaints at all.

For the most part people are reasonable and will not complain because we have explained the situation and given them an option. Sure, there will always be the one asshole who is not satisfied but that is just the way it is, there is no point standing there arguing with them wasting your time.

I have dealt with vendors that act like they are doing you a favor by selling you their product and to be honest is some cases you have no other choice but to deal with them but in most cases there is an alternate vendor waiting to sell you the same product.

Might I also add that I have bugged some vendors many times for quotes and never bought a thing from them but eventually I will buy something and if they have treated me well during all thsoe dealings then when I do buy it will likely be from them.

And that is exactly my point, but what you don't seem to understand is that as a vendor you do provide a service for a the customer. How you handle or deal with the customer is your customer service. Whether you like it or not you do provide, just because you choose to provide crappy service is a totally different story.

I work as a purchasing agent for a specialized construction company, in the past month I have had senior presidents of companies like GE, Bosch, Pelco and HID in my office all vying for our business. I choose what vendors we use based on customer service.... who is going to get me my shit when i need it and not going to create bigger head aches down the line.

MM, please don't take this as a bash on you, its not. You run your business how you want, its your choice. What I am saying, is for all those that choose to do business with MM don't get pissed and start yacking up a storm on here about how he is a bad guy when things don't go as planned. Shit happens, i know from personal and professional experience, nothing ever goes as planned. And with the type of work he does, if i was to choose to buy from him, trust me i would rather he take his time and do it right rather then rush it and f&ck it up.

This has been an interesting topic.:lol:

I know were MM is coming from. He is one of the best at what he does, so he does business on his terms. I am the same way. I am good at what I do, and well I can be picky about who I will take as a customer. If the customer doesn't want to listen, wants to complain, or well if the are more of a pain than I feel they are worth I will drop them. I turn away enough business every week that there is always another customer ready to take their place. Since my time is money, and there is not another me that can do the same job, I limit my customers to those that appreciate what I can do.:lol2:

I am also the type of person that prefers getting it done right, and waiting, rather than rushing through something and getting crappy results. I once took a gun to a gun smith to get it refinished, a family heirloum, and I took it to the best guy around. It took him 2 years to get it back to me, but it was well worth the wait.

What are you going to do when competition inevitably arises in your field? Once they offer a similar level of quality at a better rate without turning down anyone and giving better customer satisfaction, you will be SOL. Business is business, and if someone can offer something with similar results at a cheaper rate, there WILL be a market. Look at replica car parts or cheaper alternative car parts, look at how much HKS, Greddy, etc. is losing business to cheaper American brand alternatives. No one is going to be "the best in the business" forever, and eventually the market will become saturated with similar buys at half the price, be it RX8 tuning or gun refurbishing.

My field is over saturated, and yet even in this economy I turn away business, and job offers. I am not greedy, and charge probably even below market price right now for my time. I live well, dont stress about work, and I dont work to hard.:) So my customers know to respect what I do, and do what I what I tell them without to much static.

Well, there is a reason some businesses fail and some have been around and been profitable for 20+ years. It's no different despite the chosen field. Eventually the ignorant weed themselves out and its sad because often they are very gifted. I have known many doctors who are brilliant but have continuously failed do to their egos and their lack of business sense.

I don't care how great you are at what you do, there is always someone better. MM knows his shit and offers a service that is very unique and he runs his business how he pleases. I wish him the best of luck and when the time comes, I will be a customer and hopefully I will be a satisfied one.

I get what StacyT is saying. When you are providing a product or service that requires a lot of interaction with your customer you need to be choosy about who you are going to do business with to make sure that you have compatible styles and that you and your client have similar goals and expectations. Also you need to set clear ground rules up front.

My wife is a graphic designer and deals with this type of issue constantly. If she doesn't define the engagement up front with clear ground rules and push back when the customer is breaking the rules then it becomes a mess.

I have been in technical sales since '85 as an engineer for a manufacturing company. The one mantra that I hate repeating is, "the customer is always right". It is a "glad hand" way of doing business. Schmooze them with food and drink, take them to games, etc.. All just to get them to buy your product. It gets old...

I can tell you, there are days that I wish I could reach across the table and swap some of them up across the head and back to reality when it comes to common sense.

Tech Sales is a roller coaster of emotions. You have great days and then bad days. It's the game we play. Hats off to you Jeff for venturing into the lions pit of sales.

I cant read this whole thread as my eyes are going to close soon.. I met Jeff hes a cool guy so go fukc yourselves if you have a problem with his product, or your trying to cheat him.

No really right now go look up porn and jerk off and well your at it go post some of it so you can get banned, k thx.

Anyway in about 8 years after everyone is out of warranty and we've all moved on to whatever car were going to get next that's when the fun begins. People will have to stop acting like children expecting dealerships to provide to them all the time. They will have to accept facts and understand how small operations work. I'm seeing the BHR team/crew expanding their operations over the 5 years. I hate to bring in the z community again but look at jim wolf technology or stillen they started off just like BHR did and people had to turn to them becuase the dealers couldn't do anything they weren't trained to work on the z's anymore. I mean when was the last time you saw a FC pull into the dealership

Personally I've been in the non profit 3 years and I was self employed for 2 years prior to that. From what I've seen people generally only care about themselves and what they are going to get out of the situation it sickens me.

If we want to survive as a people we need to co-operate and understand that things aren't always going to work the way we want, there has to be comprise. That's more of a global POV.

To bring it grounded into day to day reality yea sometimes your not going to get 100% satisfaction or things wont go your way... hey you could get hit by a car tomorrow and lose your whole car and bang its over. so all that scamming and dumb ish will be worthless.

Now I'm going to bed sorry about the scattered reply I might edit it tomorrow..

Please refrain from making stupid retarded comments about my post It will distract me from work.

Thanks

Now this is funny
followed by followed byI think Ray you should just give up. The square peg just won't fit in the round hole. Stop pulling your hair out and Let Jeff do what he does best, that is work his mechanical magic. Let someone else worry about customer service. The whole will work much better than the individual parts.

Now this is worth a chuckle too (and I don't mean it sarcastically)Sweet dreams
You're welcome

http://ericpratum.files.wordpress.co...964zp2ilu4.jpg

So who is the Hack?

+1... the glass is just as opaque from the inside as it is from the outside. hence business ethics being the big hot buzzword in business colleges today.

Uh, that would be me. :eyetwitch

If one is so good at what one does that one is able to be selective about the clientele, who should one blame when the clientele behaves poorly?

Would you take a million dollars from a rapist?

point is money is money dealing with assholes is a by product.

Ah hah.

Disclaimer: I've not purchased a thing from MM or CRH. That doesn't mean I won't buy from them, and here's why. I identify with them.

I'm coming up on ten years in the business most people love to loathe at the drop of a hat, and they carry a sombrero for the occasion. I work in the technical support section of a cable ISP. Yeah, I'm the guy who you call and &^*% on when your email mysteriously won't work after you installed that "Fun Icons!" package. When your cable modem glitched at 3am while downloading that porn DVD, yeah, that was me, I live to do that.

Never mind the reality that the "glitch" was a maintenance window we *cannot* announce, because the self-absorbed ignorant clowns will call us with every trivial burp their overloaded Dell ever generated, because *WE* did something to THEIR computer when we updated the core router's IOS in the dead of a Monday morning, 3am. Yep, I'm shivering in that wind-tunnel ice palace they call a server room at at o'God o'clock to specifically inconvenience YOU and no one else.

I thank the architects who designed our building that they didn't put up a clock tower, and I curse them for omitting the charnel pit with a trapdoor in the parking lot. I eat Tums(tm) like other people dive into a jar of peanuts, the sound of a phone ringing sets off a Pavlovian response of pure, unadulterated rage I have to choke back before I answer with a cheery "Good day, this is ___ in technical support, how can I help you?". Our average customer should have kept to what they do best; follow a horse across an endless field with a plow between them. There are five current "customers" who should thank their respective deities that this state forbids 'concealed carry' and will never allow open season or a high 'bag limit' on assholes. Three of them I'm pretty sure have a heart-to-heart each day with their God while looking in any available mirror. They make my life a living hell, but I signed a contract to do my best, and I keep my word. Those customers get my best, and not a jot more than the contract demands. :squint:

Yet when anything goes wrong, the true customers call for me by name. They get value, because I won't lie to them, and they won't lie to me. I'll go way past the basics, the extra mile is a jaunt, it gets fixed or you don't pay. The secret to personal service, your part of the bargain? Act like a "boomer's parents", and everything's Jake. The customers who "get it", are the same ones who know why that light is on in the third-floor office long after 4pm on Friday. The guy in the office is looking after them, because they'll honor a handshake contract. They know the world doesn't owe them a damn thing, they let me know they appreciate what I do for them, and I will shake the roots of the world for them in return. The most valuable things in my office? A couple of "Thank You!" letters from true customers.

Paychecks let me pay my bills. Those people are why I go to work.


The rest of the vermin are why I don't carry weapons. :eyetwitch

Striker I completly understand your viewpoint. I am one of several data center admins for a rather large website company here in Phoenix and while I don't deal directly with customers I have years of experience doing so. It's true that the one thing that keeps people in the technical field going are those few people who take your help and are truely thankful for your service.

We've rehashed this time and time again and we're going to keep coming back to the same conclusion. That is, that MazdaManiac chooses to run his accessPORT service in the manner that he chooses. People go to him because of the results he provides not because of how he makes them feel after the purchase. Tuning an RX8, even more so over the internet, is a very intimate process and results mean the difference between your car running well and it running like crap.

Here's another example to think about. If I was the owner of a race team and I needed to hire myself a guy to build/wrench on my race car I would look for the most qualified guy I could afford. If he turns out to be a total jerk I could care less because he's hired to work on the car and not to make friends.

All I would care about is that Mazdamaniac tunes my car as best as it can be.

It seems that some customers think that this is a full time job for Jeff. It is NOT. He and the BHR crew all have other jobs and lives to attend to. The service is done as a favor to our community and should be looked at as a privilege, not a right.
If it takes 6 weeks to get an AP, and have it done properly, it is a great value.
If you screw up the logs, like I did :banghead: you will be put at the back of the line for your next calibration, so expect it.
That is all.:)

wow,

and that to some extent covers it.. you fail you go to the end of the line.

i dont have, but i do follow..

great post.. covers 97% of the duh factor.

beers :beer:

You can be selective about clientele, but as time goes most of those clients will seem to forget the terms of the deal. ;-) So I usually give them a reminder, and than if it continues, well lets just say we part ways. :-)

MM:
I've asked you numerous questions, and I've requested quotes for products of yours several times. Truth is, the only product I've yet purchased was a MM Accessport. I feel like I can identify with the problems you've had in my own life.

When I was like 13 - 16 or so, I used to fix people's computers for them. My grandma, my neighbor, my aunt's and uncles, etc. It used to be no big deal, but then they started referring their friends to me, and things started to go south. People would call, asking when their computer was going to be fixed, 2 days after I PICKED IT UP FROM THEIR HOUSE, 10 miles away. Then, when I'd bring their computer back to them, they'd give me $10 and say "thanks," neglecting the hours upon hours of work that I put into them, and the little tweaks that the majority of people knew nothing about. It started ruining my relationships with friends and family, because I couldn't deal with the "customer service" aspect of a job where the customers weren't really paying for anything.

I ended up deciding to start telling people "I'll fix your computer but it's on my own time so call me on Monday and if it's not done then, call me next Monday."
A lot of my "customers" weren't willing to deal with that and went to geek squad (at this point, there was a geek squad. before then, there were mom + pop computer stores)
The ones that stayed ended up giving me more money for the job I was doing, and I started telling them what software I'd need to buy to do the job, and asking for the $ for that. Now, it's transformed into a much better experience for me, and them. I fix their computer and they give me $ for the time I'm actually working on their computer (I tell them how much $ I want for it, usually like $50). On the tough cases, I'll tell them how long it took, and ask for a case of beer on top of my fee. My customers often now give me a little bit extra on top of what I ask, and let me tell you, that extra $5 or $10 makes me feel a whole lot better about working my ass off doing something I don't really want to do for them.

My suggestions would be this:
1. Remove the "48 hour turnaround" from the website. Don't guarantee anything. You're not doing this as your sole business, and there is no contract with you, so why should you have deadlines that are unreasonable and only give the customer more to complain about.
2. Leave a tip jar out --- Put a link to your paypal account in your emails when you send someone a log. Remind them that you're doing this for FREE and that, while not mandatory, you really appreciate any extra people are willing to give you. I guarantee that people will tip you for your services, and even if it's only $5 here and $10 there, those $5 or $10 will make you feel a lot better about doing this work for them.

Good post surfer. I've said for a long time that the biggest problem with people getting frustrated and upset is missed expectations. If you tell the customer, I'll have it done tomorrow and you finish it 4 months later they are going to be pissed. If you tell them, hey I'll have it done as soon as I can, average turn-around time is X days but I can't promise anything it gives them a more realistic expectation. The other big issue is lack of communication. Because it's not Jeff's primary job, and he is out of town a lot, he has a very hard time responding to queries. An automated system for tracking how far you are through the tuning process, how many people are in front of you, or what state your order is in would go a long way to helping. Finally an assistant is really important, and he has already gotten that. Basically, take every "customer service" element out of the picture for Jeff, let him focus on tuning (and building turbos *shakes fist*) and get better response and expectation to users. Jeff is an amazing tuner, so even if the end result is advertised to take longer a lot of people will still choose to use the service.

good point. My post is really directed at MM. BTW, Jeff, thanks for all the help you've given me

i imagine your garage the way my robotics shop was in high school - tools all over the place, random scrap metal and lots of wires and grease on everything.. and safety goggles laying all over the place collecting dust, because nobody uses them!

It does, however, result in hefy alcohol consumption. :lol:

If mine would keep getting filled up with random stuff, it would be a lot easier to keep it orderly.
Its also in motion nearly 24/7 these days and Hund can only do so much!

On a calm day:
http://www.mazdamaniac.com/images/misc/new_plate.jpg

I wish my garage was that big.. Mine barely fits my mom's Z3 in it!

mm is the best.. can you become my sensei??? hahaha

I have no desire to do any work for anyone anymore for the reasons stated here. My goal wasn't even to make a living out of it but rather to help others out and just be compensated for my time. When you have a main job to deal with, getting even small projects done for others can be taxing. After I ported Ray's motor a couple of years ago, I said I was done and I haven't done any work for anyone since. I'm glad he was patient and I felt bad for being so slow. I can't imagine it being easy as a full time job. There are lots of people out there that try to screw you over. There are honest ones that don't. The problem is that they all look alike. The same applies to businesses too though. If I'm dealing with an honest company, I don't mind if they are a little slow. All I care about is honesty. Don't bs me. Just tell me what's going on. It's the ones that make excuses and change their stories that piss me off and I have little patience with. On the other side of that, I hate customers that are impatient. The worst are the ones that try to email you one time and when you don't respond within 5 minutes they get online and publicly bash you.. The ones that jump to conclusions without even attempting to hear an explanation or reason annoy the hell out of me.