January was before the hearings.

Hope they stop this total bs.

Time to rise this thread from the dead !

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110617/AUTO01/106170337/1148/auto01/Senate-votes-down-$6B-Ethanol-subsidy--

It's time to watch this F-KING BULLSHIT SO CALLED BIOFUEL ETHANOL a slow and painful death.

Amen to that

It's funny that EPA (which is loaded with morons, not scientist) wanna skip everybody and raise the garbage limit to 15% and NOW the government has no money so they gotta cut back in pretty much everything. rofl.

time to die sucker.

15% would be the guranteed death of a lot of high performance engines.

You mean everything, Ethanol is just a "water happy" garbage, it provides almost no benefit other than raising the Octane rating(cuz it's just alcohol) for short period of time.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20110...ndate-for-2012

Is this a good news? or bad news ? :(

It sounds like the impetus to continue to migrate toward ethanol use is still there except gov is broke and market supply isn't cooperating with the intent. I think it's still bad news.

They need to get rid of Ethanol altogether, it's garbage, it use more power to make than it can produce, it's worst pollutant than fossil fuel, cost more to make. *sigh*

they keep saying Ethanol works for Brazil but they never talked about how much more pollution Brazil has right now + they chopped so much rain forest just to grow more sugar cane.

it's just sad that the government are full of lobbyist these days + how stupid people can get (they just accept whatever the government said)

Brazil cant keep vehicles of any kind running. Aircraft are having serious break down issues, boats are leaking serious oil and fuel problems in to the water, and the cars dont last more than 2 to 3 years. The only reason its not a huge problem is the economy in Brazil is growing so fast they have money to waste on new vehicles. For now. Soon it will catch up to them.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=22077

Please just end this Ethanol bs once and for all ...

It already has...

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogsp...umer-loan.html

You know what you could use? Lpg. Cheaper, cleaner and "honest" in its job.
Anyway if after the nearly unanimous dissent from the automakers you still see e15 then start thinking about what bunch your puppets your gvt is made of :)

I wonder what proof did the epa produce to show that ethanol isn't harmful? Did they cover 100.000miles on 10.000 engines on e15?

They tested less than 50 vehicles, of which more than a dozen failed the tests. They only tested to 80K miles at the most for some, others were just merely tested for half that. None were ever tested to the usefull life of a vehicle (which according to the EPA is between 100,000 and 120,000 depending on the vehicle). I don't know about most people but I believe the usefull life of a vehicle to be closer to 200,000miles.

Could not agree more... my dads 92 F-350 has almost 260,000 miles on it and needs a little stuff here and there but repair costs are far below what it would cost to replace. The 2002 Ford Focus I gave my brother (and that my wife drove for years) is nearing 150,000 miles with very few problems and it was neglected maintenance wise for quite a while. My 95 Miata has 127,000 on the clock and people who don't know much about Mazda think that it's only a few years old.

If they start making cars that last only 100,000 miles then we're screwed.

According to the EPA a usable life of a vehicle falls between 80,000-120,000 miles. Depending on how thier test results worked out with E10 or E85. I think this is horrible because thats not half the life I expect out of vehicles. My truck at our family ranch is a 2003 GMC and its got over 350,000 miles.

This doesn't include the damage this fuel is doing to aircraft and boats.

I'm going to invest in manufactures of fuel pumps for the most popular cars.

:wiggle:

maybe that's why there was a failed plane in Brazil just couple days ago.

No, it wouldn't affect 99% of planes on the market. AVGas is road tax, and ethanol free fuel. Its died blue so when you check it during your preflight you can make sure. Boats yes, but I have been flying planes since 2005 and they specifically exempt avgas from ethanol policies and die it a special color. But its also leaded gasoline to protect the engines. 100LL(light lead) is the most common. Which by the way if you dont have a cat is absolutely wonderful to use in rotary engines. The light lead part of it is a great protector, even better than zinc. Its hard on fuel injectors but if you are only running one tank, its wonderful for apex seals and bearings.

I'm not sure about the light lead but common leaded fuel proved to be detrimental at times. Don't think about the seals but their springs and lead deposits :)

Light lead is different though. A guy at the airport I fly at has a 13B engine in his cessna and has been running light lead in it every tank for years. She still flys just fine.

With no cat and a 13B, you'd be fine - however lead will also poison your wideband O² sensor if you use one, so for a road-going Renesis, not the best.

I did run 100LL in my RX8 and when she was totalled she had 85K miles on the original engine. The plugs/coils/wires were last changed at 15K miles making them over 60K miles old. However she was compression tested at 82K miles and passed. Thats with some serious track use. Enough track use that I was on the third set of brake pads since I bought the car, I had to replace the brake lines, replace the tires, and a couple of other things. That was running a tank of 100LL about every 3-4 months. So in the three years I owned her she probably saw about between 36-40 tanks of 100LL and I never burned out a sensor or a cat. But again everyones experience would be different. The reason I did it was to help coat and prevent against ethanol damage, and I wouldn't suggest doing that unless you know what your doing. I did however manage to keep an original engine running at new specs until the car was totalled.

I get it now, thanks for clarifying

Been a while since anyone has posted so dnt know if anyone still reads this... lol. I premix my fuel with 2cycle oil but I work on aircraft and every now and then I mix the 100LL with my gas. So far I have not experienced any problems but I do not do it frequently. We take fuel samples and test them for water and if it's good i store the sample and when i get about half a quart or so i mix it with my fuel. Haven't tried just using 100LL all the way but if anyone has recently please lmk. .I just hit the 100,000 mile mark. . I'm just a little over 100,000.... And i been running on regular gas since i heard premixing decreases the octane on the fuel.

Why would you do that?
There is no extra power to be found and the lead will nuke your CAT and O2 sensors.

RX8 cats are already nuked from the heat. So no worries the small amounts of lead wont burn it out faster.

While lead is an octane booster, it isn't needed or wanted in a rotary. Besides adding octane, it also lubricates valve seats. We ain't got those. Lead also leaves nasty deposits in the engine, including on the spark plugs. We already change those often enough and at $80 a pop, that isn't going to help.
If you can get the required octane level fuel, there just isn't any argument for it.

But its great for housing walls and apex seals! Neither did my spark plugs burn out from it (65K+ at time of my car being totalled.) My cat also survived just fine, and I was passing compression with great numbers at 80K+ and I was tracking in decent intervals.

It may be "great" for the seals per se BUT what about the gunk that forms on the spring seats? :)
You'd be better off using a lead substitute in theory (since leaded fuel is strictly unncecessary) as it is designed to leave no nasty deposits.

My ferrari was designed to rely on leaded petrol. By switching to modern 100ron we actually gained power for a number of reasons. The problem is finding the right additive though, 8 cyl and 4 valves per cylinder accounts for expensive repair bills if valve seating occurs.

Hmm true. I have to run leaded fuel to save the life of my 1958, on top of that I use an additive that lessens the effects of ethanol both of which are still killing her :(

May I suggest Bardahl's and Liqui-Moly's products? :)

bse50 lets start a pirate program! we will comb the nation with fuel trucks loaded with ethanol free fuel. At secret meets we will provide people with safe fuel. Start a buisness of protecting auto owners!

Still avoiding the issue that tetraethyl lead destroys O2 sensors...

I would venture to say you don't use your o2 sensor or cat maniac :P

:lol: You would have to sell it for more than Regular pump gas to make any money.

There are guys who went to buy boat gasoline because it's Ethanol free and realized how expensive it is :Eyecrazy:.

Just saying.

Uh, you would have a miserable time trying to drive an RX-8 on the street without the O2 sensor. :eyetwitch

All fuel is delivered "ethanol free". They add the ethanol at the time of delivery from a separate tank.
Ethanol is so unstable that if they pre-mixed it, the ratio would be way off when it was delivered and the hygroscopic properties would have spoiled it.

I have heard this from another source.

The Stations that have a separate tank for Ethanol, and maybe a blender pump I dunno, can save money by buying Ethanol straight from the plant.

No.

The fuel delivery truck has a separate tank for the ethanol. The delivery guy mixes it when he loads the tanks at the station.

It is blended in the ground, which is another good reason to avoid rural gas stations with very little inventory turn-over.

The good news is that, in Phoenix at least, the amount of ethanol has been dropping lately.
I test the fuel every so often and the blends have fallen under 10%.
Probably has something to do with less economic incentive to blend.

99% of stations are like you said. They pay a margin to an Oil refinery to blend their Ethanol for them and the refinery gets the VEETC blending credit!

Ethanol rack prices are over $3 a gallon. Probably fairly close to Gasoline rack prices after margins.

Marine fuel has different additives that are put in for that specific activity. I used to own a twin engine 36' cruiser. I know how much extra you pay for marine gasoline. I don't know where, around here, you could a car close to the pumps.

I got this from SEMASAN yesterday:

The U.S. House Science Committee approved a bill (H.R. 3199) directing the National Academy of Sciences to conduct a scientific assessment on how gasoline blended with 15 to 20 percent ethanol (E15 and E20) may impact gasoline-powered engines, vehicles and related equipment. The analysis would consider a variety of issues including tailpipe and evaporative emissions, impact on OBD systems, materials compatibility and fuel efficiency. The National Academy of Sciences would have 18 months to conduct its analysis. HR 3199 will now be considered by the full House of Representatives.

* H.R. 3199 acknowledges that E15 causes corrosion with incompatible parts. Ethanol increases water formation which can then create formic acid and corrode metals, plastics and rubber. The EPA allows use of E15 in 2001 and newer vehicles, but agreed to make it “illegal to fuel pre-2001 vehicles” with E15. A required warning label on the gasoline pump will not protect consumers from accidentally misfueling these vehicles/engines.

* H.R. 3199 recognizes that E15 is not yet in the marketplace. It is still the subject of several lawsuits and Congress could enact legislation to block the sale.

* H.R. 3199 prevents the EPA from permitting the sale of E15 before the report has been submitted to the House Science Committee.

* H.R. 3199 potentially protects millions of vehicles and engines that can be harmed from E15. The EPA was premature in permitting the sale since it is still unclear how E15 impacts tailpipe and evaporative emissions, OBD systems, materials compatibility and fuel efficiency.

If you'd like to show support for this bill, please let your elected officials know. You can find your reps here: http://semasan.com/lookup.asp?g=semaga

Ethanol mandate and increased mileage mandate are at odds with each other. Only government could push both simultaneously.