Rob Tomlin

I test drove these cars today. I consider them to be top competition for the RX-8, and I definitely wanted to test drive them before purchasing the RX-8.

I drove the 350z first. When this car first came out, I didn't really think that I liked the styling, but it has grown on me a lot. I like the lines of the car, though it may still be a tad on the "fat" side for me.

Interior was pretty nice. Not quite as nice as the RX-8, but nothing to really complain about with the exception of the empty "hatch" where the Nav system would go if so equipped. Really looks out of place if you don't have a Nav system.

The trunk is damn small with a tiny opening. Probably as bad as the trunk in my FD!

Now for the drive: Obviously a lot more torque than the RX-8, and you can feel the difference from a stop. But, curiously, at higher speeds, shifting down (drove the 6 speed obviously) it didn't feel any more powerful or faster than the RX-8! Maybe a bit more, but certainly nothing anywhere near being very obvious. This was surprising, as I thought the z would have more of a kick to it with the extra torque, but it really didn't (again, other than off the line).

Handling was quite good. Got on a freeway on ramp and really wound her out, on a nice long sharp right hand turn. Perfect for a test drive as you get to test both handling and acceleration! The car definitely sticks, and tracks very good. However, there was a certain "lack of connection" for lack of a better description, through the steering wheel. Hard to describe. I could defintely feel the car sticking overall, but I just wasn't getting a lot of feedback from it. Brakes were good.

Bottom line: It's a very nice car. I like the styling, it handles good (btw, I was NOT bothered by a harsh ride that many have complained about) and it is reasonably fast. However, something intangible was missing. It just didn't have the same feedback or feel that the RX-8 has. And, overall, I did NOT find it as fun to drive as the RX-8. When I got out of the car after test driving the RX-8 (both times) I had a huge smile on my face! The combination of great handling with great feedback and feel with a 9000 rpm redline and super smooth rotary motor results in a super fun drive! This fun factor was slightly missing with the 350z. My basic thoughts were "nice car, very nice". With the RX-8, it was more like "Wow, how cool was that"!

Add to this the fact it doesn't have back seats, and I still slightly prefer the styling of the RX-8, the 350z has been eliminated from consideration.

Within 10 minutes of driving the 350z, I drove a Mitsubishi Evolution.

I was hesitant to even drive this car because I am not at all fond of its styling. It looks like a souped up Econobox. However, upon walking up to the dealers lot, I saw a bright Red Evo sitting in the front. Didn't look all that bad. The front fascia screams Rally and Turbo, so it is definitely distinquished from the Lancer. The huge wing on the back is ridiculous though. The wheels that come with the car are also very nice. I wouldn't feel a need to upgrade (other than to distinguish the car from other EVO's). The Red Brembo brakes show nicely through the wheels.

So, although the exterior styling is still not to my liking, I have to retract my prior statement on this board where I called it "fugly" or words to that effect.

The interior pretty much sucks though. The seats are very good, and it has a nice Momo steering wheel standard. But the dash and gauges are very plain Econobox design. The leather equipped package was definitely nicer, but it still doesn't overcome the obvious shortcomings in this interior. The RX-8's interior is vastly superior to the EVO's!

The Drive:

Wow! Pretty incredible! Fast? You bet! And this is coming from someone who owns an FD! This car is very fast, plain and simple. However, the first thing that I did notice was that it definitely has a fairly serious issue of turbo lag in first gear. It was very noticeable. Stomp on the gas, and several seconds later the turbo would finally kick in. But man, when it kicks in, it kicks in! Just like my FD in terms of knock your head back. But the FD doesn't have turbo lag as bad as this car does.

Handling:

Damn, this thing can definitely handle! The ride seemed stiffer than the 350z to me, but it wasn't horrible. Definitely stiffer than the RX-8. Steering was very tight. The slightest turn of the wheel would result in the car responding. But the best part was when I pushed the car through a sweeping right hand turn. Just when I thought I was getting fairly agressive and somewhat near the limits, I could REALLY feel the AWD come in to play. Incredible! I've never driven a AWD sports car, and I really liked what it did. Some may not feel this way, preferring the ability to let the tail be pushed out, but I really liked the stability the AWD provided. The EVO seemed to handle more like a pure race car than the RX-8 and even more so the 350z.

So, getting out of the car after the test drive, I was definitely excited. Very fast, great handling car! Performance is top notch! The price is great for this type of performance. But, my excitement was definitely tempered rather quickly, when I sat back into the car to look at the interior again. Man, its pretty bad. Even the stereo looks very cheaply done.

And lets face it, 95% of the people on the road will have no idea what this car is, and will simply think you are driving an econobox with a huge aftermarket wing on it due to the exterior styling. It certainly isn't a car that I will keep looking back at when I get out and walk away, like I do with my FD, or like I would with the RX-8 or even the 350z.

And the car isn't nearly as refined as either the RX-8 or 350z. I don't think it is a car that I would really want to live with on a daily basis. The ride is definitely stiff, and this would undoubtedly become tiring. Unless you plan on racing the car at autocross events, or plan on constantly driving like a madman, the appeal of this car and the fun to drive factor would be almost completely gone I think. By contrast, I don't think you need to drive the RX-8 like a madman to have fun driving it. The silky smooth rotary motor, great handling and feedback, and excellent interior styling all contribute to that.

Bottom line: The EVO is a pretty incredible performer. But it's lack of exciting exterior stlying, and very poor interior stlying make it difficult to get excited about, and prevent me from feeling like "I just have to have one" like I did the first time I drove the RX-8. Also, the harsh ride and overall lack of refinement compared to the RX-8 bring it down a few notches as well. The RX-8 still excites me more overall.

So, the RX-8 is still the clear choice for me. I am not sure which I would choose between the 350z and the EVO. I like the styling of the z better (inside and out) but I need the back seats, so it's a close call.

I'm glad I drove these cars. It actually makes me feel better about my decision to eventually get the RX-8 (when the 05's come out)!

bigfatpop

Great write-up.

chinx

cool write up

i haven't driven either. i don't really feel like driving the z, 'cuz in my mind that's a seriously flawed sports car =P i really want to drive the evo. i actually LOVE the evo. it's a super cult car, and to my eyes i think it's really pretty. well, maybe not "pretty," but definitely one of the coolest-looking cars out now. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. in some ways i think the 8 strikes a balance b/t the z and evo; it's so refined and well-balanced in classic sports car dynamics, at the same time its design/styling is very japanese-edgy and cool. perfect. i'd love to drive the evo. if i were in the market for these new cars, i'd consider an evo (tho probably never over the 8), but i'd never even consider the z

playdoh43

350Z has a tendency to not feel as fast as it really is, because of how linear the powercurve is. Unlike the Evo and RX8, You can get tons of power at just about any RPM. So it does more or less feel less sporty than the RX8 and EVO because of this, but believe me, its much more powerful and faster than the rx8. much slower than the EVO though, at least from stop.
Im rather suprised that you are complaining about the EVO's turbo lag, when the RX8 behaves similarly, not getting good power until you have reved it pretty high, then you experience a sharp acceleration. Evo on the other hand gets max torque and boost at around only 3000-3500rpm. It just feels more pronounced because you are suddenly getting a rediculous amount of power with AWD tracktion while it shoots out like a rocket. The sensation of the turbo kick is truly amazing. Anyways im just pointing out that even though the RX8 is not turbo charged, its power does tend to lag until you rev it past at least 5000 rpm, which is not a bad thing, because it makes the car feel more sporty.

other than that, its a very good post, and very spot on. Good job. Always interesting to find out what other people think of all three cars. Im glad you made the right decision for your self in choosing the RX8 and you certainly seems like you enjoy it every time you're in it. Its definetly the most practical, civilized, and most comfortable car of the 3

NoVa

Rob, that was a very good post and very fair to all sides of the spectrum..I have just one question. If you are looking for( i assume) at least a 4 seater, why not drive the g35c? I can't wait to see what kind of numbers the 295hp pulls out...(As you can tell the g35c was my second choice) I think that will better round off your research and then you'll know the rx-8 was the best choice.


-Rich

shelleys_man_06

Very good write up Tom.

Rob Tomlin

I can't argue with this at all. The numbers would bear this out, and I agree that the powercurve of the z is very linear! Excellent point, and I should have mentioned that in my original post. But the bottom line remains the same....the "Feel" of speed is what is most important to me, since I will not be doing any actual drag racing! And the RX-8 "feels" just as fast at high rpms as the z, even though this may not be reality based on the numbers.


Regarding the turbo lag, please note that I was comparing it to my twin turbo 93 RX-7, not specifically the RX-8 (since it doesn't have a turbo, after all). My RX-7 has sequential twin turbos, which were specifically designed to overcome the problem of turbo lag. Compared to the lag of the EVO, the RX-7's lag is less severe in my opinion.

Now, I admit that the turbo lag can be compared to what we would have to deal with in the RX-8....that being that the power doesn't really come on until the rpms are around 5k or so (remember, I have only driven the RX-8 on two occassions, although I probably combined those two drives for a total of about an hour of driving, so my memory might not be 100% accurate). Regardless, it is clear that the RX-8 will NEVER knock your head back like the EVO can when the turbo kicks in!

I appreciate your reply. We really don't disagree on anything. I try to keep an open mind (I see no reason not too) and I think this shows by the fact that even though I am still not excited about the exterior styling, I have changed my opinion on it WAY more than I ever thought that I would! It is a great performer, too. If that is someones priority, they should definitely look at the EVO. If you like the looks of the EVO, it is almost a no-brainer!

Rob Tomlin

Absolutely! And I can at least see what people do like in the looks of the EVO now, even though I might not agree with it from a personal level (that "beholder" thing, you know).

red_rx8_red_int

Great post. I did not drive the other cars, but have observed them at autox's. The WRX will beat the 8 every time (OK almost everytime), but for total package, the 8 wins. It really does seat 4 comfortably. The styling can't be beat. It is a head turner, the other 2 are not, nuff said.

phee

Very good write-up and I couldn't agree more. I'm a lady who knows what I love to drive and it better be a comfortable, fun car. So when my hubby and I went out to first look at cars, we were going simply to do the "butt test". You know - sit in it and ask yourself "does it feel right?" I sat in several, coming down to the 350-Z and the RX-8. The Z had two major flaws in the interior that kept me from even wanting to test drive it. The glove compartment is behind the passenger seat. HUH??? Not that I use it all the time, but when I want to get into it, I don't want to have to fuss with doing so. And there's a viscious blind spot for the driver in the Z. True, I was hankering for a convertible, but once I drove the RX-8, it was all over. I love everything about it!

VikingDJ

Definitely a nice objective write up on all three cars. I test drove the 350z before buying rx8, and I noticed a clear difference in power. The rx8 does tend to feel almost as powerful once moving, but the reality is that it's not. If you line up both cars, the 350z will slowly pull away from the rx8, but it's not a night and day difference like it would be with an EVO. I test drove the STI, and now I own one along with rx8. I prefered the look of STI over the EVO, which is why I never even bothered checking it out. It certainly is a big kick in the butt once turbo gets going, and is a true performer. The looks, however are not really comparable because more money went into the refinement of the rx8 then the EVO or STI. One car looks really fast, and the other car is really fast. Having an rx8 that is capable of performing like an EVO or STI would be the ultimate vehicle, and hands down would be wiping out the competition in an overall sports car. I am sure Mazda knows they have people drooling over the looks of rx8, but still wishing it had more get up and go power. Hopefully they will have a true performing rx8 out before too long, and have the other companies trying to come up with something that can compete. As of now, it'a a clear battle between looks and refinement, and pure performance, so each car is appealing to it's customer that either choses the looks, or the high performance.

Rob Tomlin

Well said Viking!

I like the looks of the STi better than the EVO as well. I will be attempting to test drive an STi before making my final decision.

zevans

Good post!

I drove a 350 and an 8 before buying the 8 too. (Wasn't interested in an AWD)

Just wanted to say I agree about feedback - the Z was pretty insular.

The Z is clearly faster in a straight line and comparable on cornering - but you can feel the extra weight IMHO. The 8 however is MUCH easier to drive close to the limit because you know exactly what is going on at all times.

The 8 doesn't get going til over 5k - but that isn't lag. Turbo lag applies EVERY time you put your foot down when off-boost, waiting to come on-boost - even at the top of a gear. The 8 never suffers lag at all as long as you keep the revs in the power band and is therefore much easier to manage when changing speed into / out of corners.

For that reason I felt I could make much better point to point times in the 8 - driving a 225bhp car at 95% of the limits is more usable power than driving a 276bhp car at 70% of the limits. See what I mean?

Plus all the Z colours were boring...

DreRX8

Yeah--the 350Z is an excellent car and I may have gotten one; however that lack of useable space was a deal breaker. I've had an FD and I need more space now, also the colors and interior options on the 350Z are kind of dour when compared to the RX8. I would love to see the G35C and the 350Z spiced up with some things like different dash materials or two tone treatment on the interior. The RX8 is the perfect example as to why you cannot shop for a car going off of magazine stats. The exhiliration it provides in both forms AT and MT in the twisties and the sound from the rotary is incomparable. This sh%! is like a drug--I luv it.

m477

I used to have an FD as well, and it seemed to me that it had a bit more storage space than the 350z. Plus, the visibility was much better and it was obviously much prettier. I think that's why I felt so let down by the Z -- I was hoping that it would be like a reliable FD, but to me it just felt like a step backwards in most areas.

Was the turbo lag on the Evo similar to the lag in a WRX? (if you've driven one)

DreRX8

Yeah--the 350Z can't compare to the FD. The FD is in the performance bracket just above the Z--the 350s best accel times and 1/4mi times are barely touching that of the slowest or granny shifted FDs--even the auto FDs had mid to high 5s 0-60 times and were high 13s-low 14s 1/4mi cars. And even with a few mods on the FD you had a serious 911/C5 beater.

m477

True, although that wasn't exactly what I meant. I mean even if you detuned the FD so the acceleration times were the same, the FD would still be more fun to rev through the gears, and 350z still doesn't have the handling, the brakes, or the feedback of an FD. And it even loses out to the FD in practical areas like storage space and visibility.

Ike

Kep in mind that if you're not accustomed to driving an AWD turbo car the lag will seem worse than it really is, especially in 1st gear. If I were to give one of you that complains about lag a ride in an EVO or WRX you wouldn't notice much lag. It's very easy to bog these cars in first if you're not used to driving them but once you get the proper takeoff down and find the right RPMs to shift into the next gear you won't be waiting for the turbo to spool up

PistolPete-RX8

What the hell is an FD?

Rob Tomlin

I haven't driven a WRX, but I plan on driving an STI soon.

Rob Tomlin

FD is the Third Generation RX-7 (sold in the U.S. as '93 to '95 models).

Here is a picture of mine:

cortc

Good write-up...

VikingDJ

I really like the FD RX7. It is more of a true performer like an EVO or STI, but it sure did coat a lot of money. You may like the STI more then the EVO, because form what I have read it is more daily driver friendly, although you certainly feel the road. It's a very quick shifting car, because the gear ratio is so close. On normal driving. I am now shifting 1st 3rd 5th. If you love to shift all the time, you'll love the STI.

Rxdriftingaction

great write up man!! and.. i have droving evo too. it's a very fast car. and i love the feeling when the turbo kick in. and knock my head back. ha ha ..
great choice too. 8 8 8 !! zoom-zoom

Rxdriftingaction

wrx has less lag than evo. but sti has bigger lag then evo.