Test drove an '07 350Z
02-26-2007, 05:55 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by chickenwafer
Doesn't anyone find it funny that Nissan keeps making little changes to the Z every year? It has to contuinally upgrade the sum of it's parts in order to stay current. The RX-8, however, does not. The car was built with better qualitly from the get-go. Plus, wouldn't it suck if you owned a 2003 350Z and the next years one is better, and so on and so fourth, until now when your car is really outdated because the newest Z has more HP and better interoir qualitly. That would suck!
And I'm not a Z-Hater at all. In fact, they were the first car I ever fell in love with (then the RX-7 after that). In fact, I own a 1974 260Z. They're great cars, but I love the rotary too much.
Plus, I think the Z looks like an overweight cheerleader. Just too much dress for all that mass. The Z weights a lot- over 3600lbs, too, and has no back seats and little cargo capacity to speak of.
And they aren't the powerhouse everyone thinks they are. To get over 400-rwhp, you need to put $10,000 into building the engine- forged internals, blueprinted and balanced, new everything basically.
I'll stick with my 8. Althought I do have to admit the upcoming GT-R looks damn sexy and it's 450-hp twin-turbo V-6 outta be a barrel of monkeys, but I can't imagine the dealer markups! The "rumored" MSRP is around $65,000-$70k or so I hear (From Road & Track). The dealer markups will be crazy, atleast $15k. I think someone would be extremely lucky to get an OTD price under $90,000. I remember for the first few months the 350Z was on sale dealers marked it up over $10k over MSRP, and still today it's hard to get a 350 at MSRP.
And I'm not a Z-Hater at all. In fact, they were the first car I ever fell in love with (then the RX-7 after that). In fact, I own a 1974 260Z. They're great cars, but I love the rotary too much.
Plus, I think the Z looks like an overweight cheerleader. Just too much dress for all that mass. The Z weights a lot- over 3600lbs, too, and has no back seats and little cargo capacity to speak of.
And they aren't the powerhouse everyone thinks they are. To get over 400-rwhp, you need to put $10,000 into building the engine- forged internals, blueprinted and balanced, new everything basically.
I'll stick with my 8. Althought I do have to admit the upcoming GT-R looks damn sexy and it's 450-hp twin-turbo V-6 outta be a barrel of monkeys, but I can't imagine the dealer markups! The "rumored" MSRP is around $65,000-$70k or so I hear (From Road & Track). The dealer markups will be crazy, atleast $15k. I think someone would be extremely lucky to get an OTD price under $90,000. I remember for the first few months the 350Z was on sale dealers marked it up over $10k over MSRP, and still today it's hard to get a 350 at MSRP.
02-26-2007, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ike
I don't find it funny, I think it's smart business. It's also part of the reason why 350Z sales remain strong while RX-8 sales are pitiful.
Which begs the question--why?
02-26-2007, 06:32 PM
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Doesn't anyone find it funny that Nissan keeps making little changes to the Z every year? It has to contuinally upgrade the sum of it's parts in order to stay current. The RX-8, however, does not.
<looks at 350Z sales, looks at rx8 sales...>
nope, not funny.
The car[rx8] was built with better qualitly from the get-go.
<looks at all the rx8 reflashes, engine recall, flooding, hp adjustments, engine oil drainage, rattles, A/C problems... >
not necessarily.
Plus, wouldn't it suck if you owned a 2003 350Z and the next years one is better, and so on and so fourth, until now when your car is really outdated because the newest Z has more HP and better interoir qualitly. That would suck!
it shows the company cares about the car
The Z weights a lot- over 3600lbs, too
wrong, 3200-3400 depending on trim and options
And they aren't the powerhouse everyone thinks they are. To get over 400-rwhp, you need to put $10,000 into building the engine- forged internals, blueprinted and balanced, new everything basically.
you are not everyone, 300hp is common nowadays...
(FYI APS tt is designed to run well over 400whp on stock internals. and the new 07 engine has stronger internals and dual intakes sharing many designs with the GT-R engine. )
and still today it's hard to get a 350 at MSRP.
they could be bought under invoice since early 2004....
<looks at 350Z sales, looks at rx8 sales...>
nope, not funny.
The car[rx8] was built with better qualitly from the get-go.
<looks at all the rx8 reflashes, engine recall, flooding, hp adjustments, engine oil drainage, rattles, A/C problems... >
not necessarily.
Plus, wouldn't it suck if you owned a 2003 350Z and the next years one is better, and so on and so fourth, until now when your car is really outdated because the newest Z has more HP and better interoir qualitly. That would suck!
it shows the company cares about the car
The Z weights a lot- over 3600lbs, too
wrong, 3200-3400 depending on trim and options
And they aren't the powerhouse everyone thinks they are. To get over 400-rwhp, you need to put $10,000 into building the engine- forged internals, blueprinted and balanced, new everything basically.
you are not everyone, 300hp is common nowadays...
(FYI APS tt is designed to run well over 400whp on stock internals. and the new 07 engine has stronger internals and dual intakes sharing many designs with the GT-R engine. )
and still today it's hard to get a 350 at MSRP.
they could be bought under invoice since early 2004....
02-26-2007, 09:25 PM
#30
i pwn therefore i am
Originally Posted by Phantom Menace
I'm shocked! For once I agree with Banana-Man, 100%. Another point is, and no one jump on me for being an "infidel," but if the Z is so impractical, over hyped, and over priced...why are they all over the place like they're cheap? RX8s cost a good $8-$10k less (GT to GT) and are really rare on the streets. Especially around where I live. 350z's are not only flying off the shelves but dealers are able to marke them UP and people are still fighting to buy one. All the while Mazda is putting up to $10k in rebates to sell RX8s.
Which begs the question--why?
Which begs the question--why?
The idea that refreshing the 350Z every year makes it an inferior car may be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum.
02-26-2007, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by saturn
The idea that refreshing the 350Z every year makes it an inferior car may be the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum.
See Below
02-27-2007, 12:30 AM
#32
RX-8 sales are slow because of the rotary engine. People fear what they don't understand.
When I got my 8 I showed it to a friend at work. He was like, "You're enigne is either gonna blow up or need a major overhaul in 6 months." I asked him why and he couldn't come up with a reason. I tried telling him they have less moving parts than a piston enigne, but it didn't jive with him. The worst part is he is in school to be a mechanic, but I have more mechanical knowledge than he does.
Anyways, I was giving him a ride home (coindentally enough his S-10 was broke-down!) and I got into a more heated argurmeant (well, basically me defending my car!) as to why he thought I would automatically blow up my enigne. He ended up asking, "So how does a rotary work anyways?" I wa shocked- he told my enigne will blow up without even knowing the slightest how a rotary works! That's the general public (even gearheads like him) view the rotary- horror stories from the 3rd gen RX-7.
And I'm sorry, but if I bought a 2003-05 350Z and now they have more power, I would want the car with more power over mine. And that they keep making little changes should lower the resale value of previous versions
Dave
When I got my 8 I showed it to a friend at work. He was like, "You're enigne is either gonna blow up or need a major overhaul in 6 months." I asked him why and he couldn't come up with a reason. I tried telling him they have less moving parts than a piston enigne, but it didn't jive with him. The worst part is he is in school to be a mechanic, but I have more mechanical knowledge than he does.
Anyways, I was giving him a ride home (coindentally enough his S-10 was broke-down!) and I got into a more heated argurmeant (well, basically me defending my car!) as to why he thought I would automatically blow up my enigne. He ended up asking, "So how does a rotary work anyways?" I wa shocked- he told my enigne will blow up without even knowing the slightest how a rotary works! That's the general public (even gearheads like him) view the rotary- horror stories from the 3rd gen RX-7.
And I'm sorry, but if I bought a 2003-05 350Z and now they have more power, I would want the car with more power over mine. And that they keep making little changes should lower the resale value of previous versions
Dave
02-27-2007, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by chickenwafer
RX-8 sales are slow because of the rotary engine. People fear what they don't understand.
When I got my 8 I showed it to a friend at work. He was like, "You're enigne is either gonna blow up or need a major overhaul in 6 months." I asked him why and he couldn't come up with a reason. I tried telling him they have less moving parts than a piston enigne, but it didn't jive with him. The worst part is he is in school to be a mechanic, but I have more mechanical knowledge than he does.
Anyways, I was giving him a ride home (coindentally enough his S-10 was broke-down!) and I got into a more heated argurmeant (well, basically me defending my car!) as to why he thought I would automatically blow up my enigne. He ended up asking, "So how does a rotary work anyways?" I wa shocked- he told my enigne will blow up without even knowing the slightest how a rotary works! That's the general public (even gearheads like him) view the rotary- horror stories from the 3rd gen RX-7.
And I'm sorry, but if I bought a 2003-05 350Z and now they have more power, I would want the car with more power over mine. And that they keep making little changes should lower the resale value of previous versions
Dave
When I got my 8 I showed it to a friend at work. He was like, "You're enigne is either gonna blow up or need a major overhaul in 6 months." I asked him why and he couldn't come up with a reason. I tried telling him they have less moving parts than a piston enigne, but it didn't jive with him. The worst part is he is in school to be a mechanic, but I have more mechanical knowledge than he does.
Anyways, I was giving him a ride home (coindentally enough his S-10 was broke-down!) and I got into a more heated argurmeant (well, basically me defending my car!) as to why he thought I would automatically blow up my enigne. He ended up asking, "So how does a rotary work anyways?" I wa shocked- he told my enigne will blow up without even knowing the slightest how a rotary works! That's the general public (even gearheads like him) view the rotary- horror stories from the 3rd gen RX-7.
And I'm sorry, but if I bought a 2003-05 350Z and now they have more power, I would want the car with more power over mine. And that they keep making little changes should lower the resale value of previous versions
Dave
That being said, overall RX-8s are still going to be pretty reliable and don't deserve all of the bad reputation they have with some people due to past RX-7 models.
350Z resale is quite good yet the RX-8's is just ok. Considering that fact how can you say it hurts the resale value? You just said you would want the 350Z with more power over one that you already had. That's the whole reason to keep improving a car! It is going to make owners of the earlier model years want to get another one when they're ready for something new. It will also keep the car showing up in reviews and comparos in car mags because it's not old news like the RX-8 that hasn't changed since its arrival.
<awaits the flames>
02-27-2007, 02:19 AM
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the low sales of the rx-8 its due to a couple of things, one is what everyone keeps sayng no real upgrade in the car since it was lauch, so if you bought one in 2003 theres no real reason to change it for a new one. Power compare to its rivals, not alot needs to be said about this ,and the bad rep of the rotary, yes this is a problem, but im sure if the rx-8 had 280 real hp this would not be heard over the how fast it is coments
if the mazda 6 is coming this year as a 2008 model you can expect to see a couple of rx-8 prototypes next year running around in diguisse
if the mazda 6 is coming this year as a 2008 model you can expect to see a couple of rx-8 prototypes next year running around in diguisse
02-27-2007, 08:59 AM
#35
i pwn therefore i am
I don't think improving the car really hurts resale values nearly as much as overproduction along with less demand than expected. That's exactly what happened with the RX-8.
It does stink buying a car and then the next year having it be improved. However, there's a much greater chance that I'm on the fence about a car and then a small update pushes me over towards buying that car.
It does stink buying a car and then the next year having it be improved. However, there's a much greater chance that I'm on the fence about a car and then a small update pushes me over towards buying that car.
Last edited by saturn; 02-27-2007 at 09:23 AM.
02-27-2007, 12:04 PM
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I think the 350z is a very fine car. I've never understood the this one is better than that one or the import vs domestic sqabbles. If you truely enjoy cars whether its the performance variety or rock climbers you should appreciate them for there own specific qualities. Whether its a 350z, Mustang, RX8, Z4, Evo/STI, or an Audi S4 Avant they all have something to contribute to the performance arena.
The 350z fits its target quite well, attractive, reasonably powerful, reasonable handling for a fair price.
The 350z fits its target quite well, attractive, reasonably powerful, reasonable handling for a fair price.
02-27-2007, 02:07 PM
#37
Originally Posted by Ike
You have some screwy logic. The whole less moving parts thing has always struck me as funny. Sure there may be fewer things that can go wrong, but that doesn't mean that it will be more reliable. Sure your friend didn't really know his stuff but you really weren't a whole lot different, you were on opposite ends of an argument when you both should have been somewhere in the middle. Yes, the rotary can be quite reliable, it can also be a nightmare. Rotarys are more sensitive to detonation and heat than most piston engines and the Rensis has had more than its fair share of engine problems. With the how bad some of the FI rotary engines have been the rotary stigma was well earned by Mazda.
That being said, overall RX-8s are still going to be pretty reliable and don't deserve all of the bad reputation they have with some people due to past RX-7 models.
350Z resale is quite good yet the RX-8's is just ok. Considering that fact how can you say it hurts the resale value? You just said you would want the 350Z with more power over one that you already had. That's the whole reason to keep improving a car! It is going to make owners of the earlier model years want to get another one when they're ready for something new. It will also keep the car showing up in reviews and comparos in car mags because it's not old news like the RX-8 that hasn't changed since its arrival.
<awaits the flames>
That being said, overall RX-8s are still going to be pretty reliable and don't deserve all of the bad reputation they have with some people due to past RX-7 models.
350Z resale is quite good yet the RX-8's is just ok. Considering that fact how can you say it hurts the resale value? You just said you would want the 350Z with more power over one that you already had. That's the whole reason to keep improving a car! It is going to make owners of the earlier model years want to get another one when they're ready for something new. It will also keep the car showing up in reviews and comparos in car mags because it's not old news like the RX-8 that hasn't changed since its arrival.
<awaits the flames>
I know 350's have better resale than our RX-8, I never said otherwise. But it would make more sense that a more-outdated model would have a lower resale because it's so outdated because each year it gets better.
And I also never said rotaries are inheritly more reliable than a piston just because it has fewer moving parts- it was just to demenstrate that there is less that could hypothetically go wrong. And the fact of the story was that my friend thought rotaries sucked without knowing a lick about them! After I gave him a crash corse on how they worked (i.e. a 10 minuet conversation, so obviously I didn't explain nearly EVERYTHING so you can get off me about that) he said he kinda understood them. Then he started asking why he has heard some bad stories and I got into the FD with him. And yes, that is Mazda's fault, but they did take it up the beaner in warranties and a bad stigma.
And I don't even see a point in arguing/defending my opioion anymore. It's exactly that- my opioion. I wouldn't get a 350, obviously, because I'm here! Sure, if had mass-amounts of disposiable income on hand, I would drop $35k on a 350Z, but I don't, I already spent less on an RX-8. And with the price different between a 350 (you can't get one for under $30k [base model, manual] around here, I looked before I got my 8), and the going price of a new RX-8 (Average was $26.5K around here, Base model, manual), with the money you save getting the 8 (roughly 4K) you can do a GReddy turbo kit (and yes, I know it isn't the BEST turbo kit, so lay off me about that as well), and get it profressionally tuned and installed for that 4k and go run with a Z. Or shell out an extra $3k and goto Mazsport and get them to do a Type I kit for you and walk all over a Z.
For me, the difference in price was key, and was the rotary engine, IMO.
02-27-2007, 06:11 PM
#39
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Originally Posted by chickenwafer
And with the price different between a 350 (you can't get one for under $30k [base model, manual] around here, I looked before I got my 8), and the going price of a new RX-8 (Average was $26.5K around here, Base model, manual)
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