AkursedX

For me, I generally feel that a muscle-car is a car with more engine than handling, and a sports-car has more handling than engine.

Also, a muscle car has to have at least 8-cylinders, and it is probably going to be an American car. Cars like the Corvette and Viper I would consider sports cars for the most part although depending on what the owner has done to them/uses them for, I could see them as muscle cars.

dynamho

Tougher than, is Corvette a muscle car, question:
Are Holden Commodores (V8) and Ford Falcons (V8) muscle cars?
What do you think?

fuztupnz

iTrader: (4)

More or less, yes Dynamho.

They fit the mold of the original muscle cars quite well. Take a midsized family car and add big engine.

milkis

i thought the term "muscle" in a car was used for american made V8 engine.
like v8 camero muscle car.
v6 camero sports car.

dynamho

str_incorrect = 'camero'
str_correct = str_incorrect.gsub(/e/, 'a')

sorry. just had to.

REsuperD

a muscle car to me (and i think traditionally) involves dropping a powerful engine into a mundane boring car, thus turning it into a high performance car of some kind. by the STRICTEST definition historically, a sports car is a small open-top two-seater designed specifically to be that from the outset. a lot of what we consider sports cars nowadays, be it the 240Z or RX-7, would then be classified as grand tourer instead of sports cars

corvette is by all means a sports car, as it was originally (as in 1953) intended to be. mustangs and camaros were originally not really muscle cars, but pony cars, altho they both evolved to have muscle car attributes. cars like the charger, road runner, or gto are true muscle cars; they were all made by putting a powerful engine, loud graphics, bright colors, and/or body pieces in/on to a standard-issue car and without much other development. those australian high-performance cars are definitely muscle cars. weirdly by this definition, the mazdaspeed3, evo, and wrx are also muscle cars...and i do kinda seem then as modern day sophisticated muscle cars; they're definitely not sports cars

usnidc

No, I would call it a stupid piece of crap poor excuse for a car. Bolting a turbo on a POS small economy car does not make a muscle car. A VW GTI, MazdaSpeed3, etc are not sports cars either. they are hot hatches. FWD does not equal sports car OR muscle car. they can be "sporty" but not a sports car.

bse50

By your definition then a lamborghini miura and the 250gto aren't sportscars. Convertible sports cars are called spyders or roadsters.
Even in the contemporary engineering era a true sportscar can't truly have an open top. The lack of a solid roofs impairs the car's handling making it slower.
In the past and with the lower technology standards and discoveries there was also a real weight disadvantage for the roadster. The gap is way narrower nowadays but it still counts.

Anyway a muscle car is the normal girl that draws attention with a slutty dress. A sports car is a true model. I feel like we drive a milf. It keeps the family together but likes to be spanked.

New Yorker

You guys do realize that these terms are not black and white, right? As human beings, we are wired to neatly analyze and categorize everything, but some things defy easy categorization.

Just as the RX-8 doesn't fit neatly into any pre-existing box, there are a handful of vehicles that have elements of both sports cars and muscle cars and are not obviously one or the other.

(Though I guess the fact that this discussion is happening suggests that people already know this. So never mind.)

Old Rotor

So the word "Crossover" worked for one segment of the market. What is the word of our segment....Hy-bred?

MS Addict

iTrader: (1)

Our segment? Are our Rx8's hy-breds? I hear that word used with stuff like Priuses.

What similarities does a Prius share with our car, to make them both hy-breds?

/EndDouchebaggery.exe



I think the Corvette started out as a muscle car, obviously, but grew into a sports car. Hell, one could even call the ZR1 and such a supercar now, with the way it can lap Nurburgring, and plenty of other tracks.

Plus, with them having the Camaro to fall back on as a muscle car, I think it's less of one nowadays, much less than it used to be.

dynamho

Also IMHO, sports cars (and muscle cars) MUST be RWD. That's just me.
And yeah, I don't consider Lamborghini Gallardo a sports car, except the Balboni edition. Lamborghini Miura on the other hand is a knockout sports car.

Atilla

iTrader: (1)

^agreed.


To say that it's from america and that it has a v8 doesn't always mean that it's going to be a muscle car...regardless of it's heritage.

Same with the mustang (unfortunately). I personally prefer a mustang to stay on the drag strip but the way american designers have 'evolved' that car it's hard not to argue how it should be categorized in today's standard. The new GT500 Mustang was rated to be the better 'sports car' in some recent magazines.

IMO, the Corvette is a sports car because it does 'sporty' things (for lack of a better description) - it does more than go fast in a straight line and it doesn't feel like you're gonna flip the car if you take a turn at more than 40mph. Yes some of its attributes may resemble american muscle but the way the car has evolved leaves no doubt that it is a sports car. A similar argument can be made about the mustang (higher models) imo. It has deep roots in american muscle but with its new generations and handling upgrades its beginning to look more like a sports car than just a quarter-mile queen (the higher models anyway)...of course it definitely has more of a way to go than most sports cars tho. Personally it's one of the few cars that i would say that it was a muscle car but is now more of a sports car.

Old Rotor

Hybird is Prius

Hybred is Horse-power

Joe-the_tattoo_artist

It is in my opinion that another criteria of a true sports car is that it was originally designed and developed to compete in road sports. The Corvette was born as and continues to be a sports car. The birth of the Mustang was inspired by the GT40, and was intended to be an affordable sports car for the masses. The Camaro was the cousin of one of the first "real" American sports car, the Pontiac Trans-Am, in that it was designed specifically to compete in the sport racing series for which it was named.

godesshunter

Copied and paisted form Wikipedia as the first paragraph of the definition of a "sports car"


"A sports car (or sportscar or sport car) is a small, usually two seat, two door automobile designed for high speed driving and maneuverability.[1] Sports cars have been either spartan or luxurious, but good handling, minimum weight, and high performance are requisite.[2]"

That is very vague. I think it all comes down to the eye of the beholder. There are just too many variables. I mean hell I bet a new Honda Civic hybrid could out drive a classic Porsche 914 on the track.

If you look up SOLO classification chart from the Sports Car Club of America they include cars such as Dodge Intrepid,Ford Taurus, Ford Tempo,Nissan Versa, and a dozen other cars that have no business being called a sports car.

I guess it can come down to how you use the car?

M42e30

I turned my 2002 camaro from a muscle car to a sports car. Ls1 6spd thousands of dollars into the suspension later and i was beating all of the evos and stis and vettes around the autox track. It turned in harder than my rx8 does and with 315's in all four corners was amazing. I had someone with a sti on coilovers and sway bars ask me if my car was welded to the road,after i beat him around a turn. most camaros i would say are muscle cars though.

M42e30

Bladecutter

I will call your statement out, because no one else did.

Tell me, is the following vehicle not a muscle car?


1987 Buick Grand National GNX


If it isn't a muscle car, then what is it?

The definition that I use to define a muscle car is simply this:

A normal sedan that has an upgraded engine power option that is beyond the needs of the vehicle to meet the needs of 75% of the driving public.

So, you take a V-6 Challenger from a couple of years back that only had 250 hp (cough, cough) and an auto transmission, and you turn it into a true muscle car by dumping in their 425 hp 6.1 liter V-8 Hemi engine.

Same exact thing can be said about the Dodge Charger.
4 door sedan, family car, with the V-6.
But as soon as you option in that big block V-8, its a muscle car.

Another way to define it is simply this:

Without the high horsepower engine option, its just a boring car.
Put in the extra muscle, and it becomes a fun car.

Sports cars are fun from beginning of concept to final production.

A Porsche Boxster/Cayman is a sports car, even with the base engine option.
Order the S version, and you get a more powerful version of a sports car.
Order the Spyder version, which gets you a stripped down, yet even more powerful version of a sports car. Some would say, at its purist.

Muscle cars tend to just have more and more crap dumped into them, no concern for weight savings at all.

BC.

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

I have no real idea what makes any car a sports car but those that believe that a Corvette is a sports car should rethink their idea's about what is a sports car. To my way of thinking, the Cobra was the only vehicle made in America that could be classified as a Sports car and it was not really made in America (body came from GB as I remember it).

MS Addict

iTrader: (1)

I know, I'm just joking around.


But that's impressive, 315's on a Camaro. I bet that costed some good money.

hookedonfonix

How is a corvette not a sports car? I don't understand.... Its not like they were designed for just straight line. Have you ever been in one of the "true" muscle cars. They have no emphasis on anything other than going in a straightline. The corvette on the other hand has always been a sports car. Unlike its muscle car counter parts like the chevelle and nova which were mainly drag racing chevy put the corvette into road races more so with the later generations than with the C1.

The corvette was named after a small manuverable warship so you can kind of get the idea of what Chevy had in mind when the built it. Unlike the muscle cars the corvette was given independent rear suspension fairly early in production. Starting with the C5 corvette they started mounting thier transmissions in the Rear for better weight distribution.

My main point is if the corvette doesn't qualify as a sports car what does? It seems like it has everything it would need to be one.

Phil's 8

iTrader: (3)

Obviously you have not driven in a Corvette, your right about it handling like the warship it is. The Corvette was started out to be a "pony" car with no handling, then it graduated to a "muscle car" with even less handling. Currently GM seems to have made an effort but failed and it remains the boat that it was named after. Sorry if you own one but that is my feeling about the car.

hookedonfonix

No need to apologize everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have been a quite a few corvettes enough to be thoroughly convinced they are good handlers. One of the misconceptions about corvettes and their handling is the fact that they have a tendency to oversteer and once they start to spin they are not very forgiving. But when driven properly the oversteer helps with turn in. You wouldn't happen to autocross would you? Around where I go there are a alot of C4 corvettes and they usually have some of the fastest times there. Have you driven in one? If so which one... another important thing is that it wasn't on runflats or anything?

M42e30

Yeah 315's on. A 02 camaro with no modifications just had to get the right offset. A sports car is whatever you want it to be. What is the caddy cts-v 4door a sports car or a muscle car? Its big its heavy has a ton of options and handles very well. Most people never track their cars anyway and a vette on the street at 7/10 is goona beat many other "sports cars" into the turn through the turn and than out of the turn.